HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

89 Flames vs 99 Stars

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-13-2014, 12:20 PM
  #26
tjcurrie
Registered User
 
tjcurrie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Gibbons, Alberta
Posts: 3,705
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
kind of interesting that each team beat a team built similar to the one it's being matched up against in this thread.

i'd note, however, that the '89 habs had the vezina/jennings, norris, selke, and jack adams winners that year. they, along with the flames, ran away with the league. 115 and 117 points, respectively, when the next highest team had 92.

the '99 avs finished 4th in the league standings, one point ahead of the 5th place leafs.

looking at the standings, the argument can be made that the '89 stars was a superior version of the '99 stars (who had the selke and jennings winners), while the '89 flames was a superior version of the '99 avs (who were obviously a very good team, but more top-heavy than those flames, especially on D).
But to compare standings and award winners etc you would have to compare competition from each respective time frame and it gets pretty heavy. The Stars had a very Vezina-like goaltender themselves, as well as Selke and Norris-type players in the lineup. They may not have won those awards, but again you'd have to get in to a whole big argument about all of that and we know how that goes.

Let's face it, teams were making the playoffs back in the 80s and early 90s with terrible records compared to teams from the late 90s and on. The Stars had 114 points that season, 1st overall, in a league with more competition I would say.

Another point worth noting, the Habs didn't have a 1-2 punch at center like the Stars did in Modano-Nieuwendyk.

I think going over all of this is interesting, but actually physically placing the two teams on the ice against each other is a whole 'nother story. And I do think the Stars' own skill, and ability to shut opponents' skill down is being overlooked.

tjcurrie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2014, 03:59 PM
  #27
vadim sharifijanov
Rrbata
 
vadim sharifijanov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 10,523
vCash: 500
i'll say this much: between gilmour, otto, nieuwendyk, modano, nieuwendyk again, carbonneau, and skrudland, i'd be surprised if the puck would ever even get out of the faceoff circle. i guess maybe only when whoever calgary's fourth line center is in the game.

(was it fleury? i have a foggy memory of him being a bottom six center before shifting to first line RW to replace mullen.)

vadim sharifijanov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2014, 04:03 PM
  #28
vadim sharifijanov
Rrbata
 
vadim sharifijanov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 10,523
vCash: 500
and btw, while i was googling insuccessfully trying to find out who took the draws on cgy's fourth line, i found this interesting anecdote about young theo:

Quote:
When Sergei Makarov, one of those teammates, helped key the Soviet Union's 7-1 rout of Canada, Fleury ripped into Makarov. ''Why didn't you play this well for the Flames in the playoffs?'' he asked. ''We'd still be playing.''

Makarov was stunned.

''Aw, I didn't mean anything by it,'' says Fleury now. ''He's a good guy. He's still my roommate.''

http://www.si.com/vault/1990/12/10/1...asperating-too

vadim sharifijanov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2014, 04:13 PM
  #29
herashak
Registered User
 
herashak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,373
vCash: 50
Flames

herashak is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2014, 04:17 PM
  #30
Hoser
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,181
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
I'm going to have to disagree with the bolded.

Colorado had the following

Forsberg, Sakic, Fleury, Hejduk, Drury, Lemieux, Kamensky, and Ozolinsh. That's one pretty stacked team offensively, especially when you factor in that 1999 Fleury was a superior player to 1989 Fleury.
Yes, the Avalanche had Forsberg, Sakic, Fleury, Lemieux, Kamensky, young Hejduk, young Drury, Ozolinsh on the back end and Adam Deadmarsh, who was no slouch. But beyond that they didn't have the depth the Flames had. You might remember that the Flames had Mullen, Loob, Gilmour, Nieuwendyk, Roberts, Otto and Fleury (who scored 34 P in 36 GP in the regular season; he wasn't as good as he was in 1999 but he was still damn good) and forget the role players like Jiri Hrdina (22 G), Mark Hunter (22 G), Brian MacLellan (18 G), Colin Patterson (14 G), and captains Jim Peplinski (13 G) and Lanny McDonald (11 G in 51 GP).

And on defence, yeah, the Avalanche had Ozolinsh. A great player. The Flames had MacInnis—an all-time great player. And they had Gary Suter (62 P in 63 GP).

The '99 Avalanche had a fantastic top 6, capable third line and a great offensive defencemen; every single line the Flames had was dangerous, and they had two great offensive defencemen.

Hoser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2014, 04:25 PM
  #31
vadim sharifijanov
Rrbata
 
vadim sharifijanov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 10,523
vCash: 500
^ plus rob ramage, who was still a legit number one d-man on half the teams in the league.

vadim sharifijanov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2014, 04:56 PM
  #32
quoipourquoi
Moderator
Goaltender
 
quoipourquoi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hockeytown, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 4,000
vCash: 500
While Theo Fleury was a better player in 1999 than he was in 1989, Theo Fleury in May 1999 might not have been one of the better versions of Theo Fleury.

quoipourquoi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2014, 05:05 PM
  #33
beeker16
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 1,010
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoser View Post
Belfour? Pfff, Belfour Shmelfour: the Habs had Roy and the Flames beat him, ergo they could beat Belfour.
Roy lost two game 7s to Belfour.

Eddie's Better.

beeker16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2014, 05:57 PM
  #34
vadim sharifijanov
Rrbata
 
vadim sharifijanov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 10,523
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by beeker16 View Post
Roy lost two game 7s to Belfour.

Eddie's Better.
now this is not to say that belfour wasn't easily the better goalie overall, or that maybe he wasn't slightly better at their respective peaks, but for the record vernon beat roy twice in deciding game sixes. i.e., he didn't let those series go to seven.

belfour and vernon each also lost to roy once in the playoffs: belfour in six in '96, vernon a decade earlier in five. both times roy won the cup.

which is to say, i'm willing to concede that belfour in '99 was better than vernon in '89. but i don't think the difference was large, and definitely not large enough to overcome calgary's advantages elsewhere in the lineup. in those years, both goalies could steal a series against any team in the league.

edit: and by the way, '89 was vernon's regular season peak. second in vezina and all-star voting by a huge margin. '99 belfour was 7th and 5th respectively. obviously, the late 90s was a tougher goaltending field, but belfour was behind cujo, peak byron dafoe, ronnie tugnutt (and others in vezina voting), not just the statistical supernova that was hasek.


Last edited by vadim sharifijanov: 07-13-2014 at 06:05 PM.
vadim sharifijanov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2014, 06:52 PM
  #35
Hoser
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,181
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by beeker16 View Post
Roy lost two game 7s to Belfour.

Eddie's Better.
Roy has more wins, more shutouts, more Vezinas, more Conn Smythes....

{Mod}


Last edited by Killion: 07-13-2014 at 07:25 PM. Reason: woo... easy there. This aint The Lounge.
Hoser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2014, 04:09 PM
  #36
Thenameless
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 371
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoser View Post
Roy has more wins, more shutouts, more Vezinas, more Conn Smythes....

{Mod}
And his hockey cards are worth way more.

Thenameless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2014, 01:04 AM
  #37
Stars and Bolts
Registered User
 
Stars and Bolts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 296
vCash: 500
A question I must ask with regards to these 2 teams is are there any significant rule differences between 1989 and 1999 which could tilt the advantage towards one of the teams?

Stars and Bolts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2014, 09:44 AM
  #38
Kranix
Registered User
 
Kranix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,675
vCash: 471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars and Bolts View Post
A question I must ask with regards to these 2 teams is are there any significant rule differences between 1989 and 1999 which could tilt the advantage towards one of the teams?
Rules? I'm not sure. Skate in the crease? Do you mean the play style of the league was different? The Stars were in the clutch-and-grab era. I don't know the answer. They were both ultra talented teams that also used their filth and scrappiness to win the cup.

Kranix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2014, 01:24 PM
  #39
vadim sharifijanov
Rrbata
 
vadim sharifijanov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 10,523
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kranix View Post
Rules? I'm not sure. Skate in the crease?


hehe...

vadim sharifijanov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2014, 02:09 AM
  #40
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,760
vCash: 500
I would take Calgary.

BenchBrawl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2014, 06:50 AM
  #41
DarzipanMildo
Registered User
 
DarzipanMildo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: THE ZONE
Country: Angola
Posts: 1,184
vCash: 50
The '89 Flames are one of the top ten greatest NHL teams ever formed. Flames.

DarzipanMildo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-22-2014, 07:45 PM
  #42
Cold Medicine
HFStars Expatriate
 
Cold Medicine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 518
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars and Bolts View Post
A question I must ask with regards to these 2 teams is are there any significant rule differences between 1989 and 1999 which could tilt the advantage towards one of the teams?
The small things: an extra referee, different crease dimensions, changes to definition of high sticking, addition of penalties for diving, game misconducts for instigating fights, game misconducts for dirty hits into goals, video replay, and changes to the clock so that it displayed tenths of a second during the final minute.

The crease rule was already mentioned. The only other big thing that I can think of is that the ice dimensions were changed in 1998-99. The blue lines, defensive/offensive zone faceoff dots, and the goal lines were all moved 2 feet closer to center ice, leaving 13 feet behind the net and decreasing the area of the neutral zone. The idea was that this would allow players to unleash the hidden Wayne Gretzky in themselves and increase scoring.

Cold Medicine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2014, 12:10 PM
  #43
FLAMESFAN
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 2,479
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
i'll say this much: between gilmour, otto, nieuwendyk, modano, nieuwendyk again, carbonneau, and skrudland, i'd be surprised if the puck would ever even get out of the faceoff circle. i guess maybe only when whoever calgary's fourth line center is in the game.

(was it fleury? i have a foggy memory of him being a bottom six center before shifting to first line RW to replace mullen.)
Otto took every important F/O for that squad - he was head & shoulders the best they had, easily one of the best in the league.

Yes, Fleury played mostly at 4th line during the playoffs. The lines were:

Patterson/Gilmour/Mullen This line no team had an answer for. If Carbonneau, Gainey, & Keane couldn't stop them, Dallas wouldn't either.
Roberts/Nieuwendyk/Loob This would be most teams 1st line.
Peplinski/Otto/MacDonald perfect 3rd line
MacLellan/Fleury/Hunter Fleury made fans get out of their seat every game.

FLAMESFAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2014, 02:16 PM
  #44
Hoser
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,181
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLAMESFAN View Post
Otto took every important F/O for that squad - he was head & shoulders the best they had, easily one of the best in the league.

Yes, Fleury played mostly at 4th line during the playoffs. The lines were:

Patterson/Gilmour/Mullen This line no team had an answer for. If Carbonneau, Gainey, & Keane couldn't stop them, Dallas wouldn't either.
Roberts/Nieuwendyk/Loob This would be most teams 1st line.
Peplinski/Otto/MacDonald perfect 3rd line
MacLellan/Fleury/Hunter Fleury made fans get out of their seat every game.
With Jiri Hrdina and Mark Hunter doing spot duty on the third and fourth lines.

You know you're stacked when your 13th and 14th forwards scored 22 goals apiece in the regular season.

Hoser is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:14 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.