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Hawks looking to trade Oduya

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Old
07-11-2014, 06:21 PM
  #26
hawksrule
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Originally Posted by xX Hot Fuss View Post
^^^
But it does that at the cost of a weakened defense. I'd rather him walk for nothing than get a nice draft pick
Agreed. Whatever we could get for Oduya in a trade (which isn't all that much) is not worth jeopardizing the upcoming season. Not even close.

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07-11-2014, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Central PA Hawk Fan View Post
After all the bemoaning over a #2C, you have the gall to type this thought out? yeah, its so easy, just fill the spot with some kid from Rockford, or entrust Leddy who they've been trying to groom for the spot for 2 years now but doesn't seem to want it. I find it funny we couldn't throw TT into the fire at the 2C spot, but we can do it for Oduya's spot?
Well you may find it funny but it's a ridiculous comparison. TT has played a grand total of 3 NHL games and is 19 years old fresh over from Europe.

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07-11-2014, 06:34 PM
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Oduya has never been a legit No 4 D-man, not at any point in his entire career. He's been propped up by other players at time but has always been an excellent No 5 or a 4/5 tweener type. Watch what happens when other players start lining up next to Hammer consistently. They'll look better than you thought they were, just like Oduya.
For 7 seasons, all of his coaches have given top 4 responsibility regardless of his partner. I'm not there is any stronger argument for a true 2nd pair dman. Too good for the 3rd pair and not quite effective enough to be on the top pair. He's a number 3 on more rosters than he's a number 5 on, Hjalmarsson or no Hjlamarsson. He's been very consistent as well, as a 2nd pair type.

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07-11-2014, 06:36 PM
  #29
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Or you can just trade Leddy, who can probably bring in a better return than Oduya but isn't as valuable to the current squad.
Absolutely.

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07-11-2014, 06:41 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Sevanston View Post
When was the last time a Hawks trade rumor came out that ended up true? I'm not saying that as a doubter, but more as a statement of surprise that there's any semi-official rumor at all.

I think trading Oduya this season would be a mistake. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. There are better contracts to move than his, and he's been doing great next to Hammer for $3.375M.
When Hawks were trying to get Oduya

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07-11-2014, 06:41 PM
  #31
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Long time lurker...

What a bunch of crap. Why trade Oduya? Like Leddy or Dahlbeck (fresh from Rockford, no less) is gonna step into his role? Ridiculous. This season we have a better shot at the Cup than subsequent seasons. Why mess with that?

Yes, Hammer is a very, very strong lead dog on that pairing. But you are wholly discounting JO's ability, IMO.

The guy who's gonna go is Leddy, assuming Stan can get a good return.

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07-11-2014, 06:42 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Central PA Hawk Fan View Post
Or you can just trade Leddy, who can probably bring in a better return than Oduya but isn't as valuable to the current squad.
At this point we must consider that Leddy's value isn't as great as we thought

Teams have seen the same pathetic playoff Leddy as all of us

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07-11-2014, 07:15 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by hockeydoug View Post
For 7 seasons, all of his coaches have given top 4 responsibility regardless of his partner. I'm not there is any stronger argument for a true 2nd pair dman. Too good for the 3rd pair and not quite effective enough to be on the top pair. He's a number 3 on more rosters than he's a number 5 on, Hjalmarsson or no Hjlamarsson. He's been very consistent as well, as a 2nd pair type.
Hmmmm. His coughing up of the puck when pressured has also been consistent, as has his inability or unwillingness to tie up ops near the blue paint. It never ceases to amaze me how some continue to overrate Oduya.

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07-11-2014, 07:21 PM
  #34
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Well you may find it funny but it's a ridiculous comparison. TT has played a grand total of 3 NHL games and is 19 years old fresh over from Europe.
As opposed to Dahlbeck's NHL experience?

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07-11-2014, 07:32 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
At this point we must consider that Leddy's value isn't as great as we thought

Teams have seen the same pathetic playoff Leddy as all of us
No one is suggesting Stan should garner some unreal return for Leddy. But Leddy's value to other teams is greater than Oduya's and Oduya's value to our team is higher than Leddy's. Plus, we have more guys who can fill Leddy's role than are ready to fill JO's. Plus, JO is off the books after this year, when the squeeze comes.

The choice between keeping one of Oduya and Leddy is a no-brainer.

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07-11-2014, 08:43 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by hawksrule View Post
Agreed. Whatever we could get for Oduya in a trade (which isn't all that much) is not worth jeopardizing the upcoming season. Not even close.
I really think this is a poor and irresponsible way to think about the season. It's dangerously close to the line of thinking that a roster can be formed such that a cup win is guaranteed- and that word has no meaning in the NHL. There's too much luck and random occurrence for any game to be guaranteed.

The best you can do is put yourself in the best possible position to be on the playoffs year after year after year. Teams that look toward the future tend to find themselves in the playoffs in the future. Teams that look at right now tend to be disappointed.

Oduya is better than Leddy defensively right now. But when does he decline- and for how long will he be better than Leddy?What is Leddy's ceiling? What is Dahlbeck's ceiling? Rundblad's? These players still have elements of unknown about them... and you can look at that as a risk if you want... or you can look at is as an opportunity - either one thing is for certain : Oduya is the player he is, and best case scenario will stay the same.

I got laughed at a few years ago for suggesting it- bit were following a similar model to the Sharks. Key differences being that our stockpile of starts are largely younger and better than theirs. Our prospects are better. They're not the favorite most years, but they're at least in the conversation. If you decide to go big for one year, and sacrifice the future to do so, then you're effectively giving your team less chances to win.

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07-11-2014, 08:57 PM
  #37
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Is everyone forgetting how well Brookbank played with Keith in the playoffs when Seabs was suspended? Maybe Brookbank if re-signed would be fine paired with Hammy. Leddy is not ready to be moved up but Bowman might just do that to see how far he has progressed and whether to move him next off season. Clendenning would probably work out fine with Hammy. He is certainly NHL ready and is an offensive defense man who has improved a fair bit defensively.

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07-11-2014, 09:06 PM
  #38
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I'd be ok with it.

Then again I'm higher on Leddy than most - much higher than some in fact. I don't think Rozi is going anywhere - age, NTC and his cap dollars don't fix enough - and I don't think Oduya is as good as some Hawk fans think he is. I also think if you gave Leddy Hammer as his partner he'd elevate his game.

I liked Oduya after the trade, and I was on the side that re-signing him was a good thing. That said - this talk of him being a #3 defenseman? Only on a bad team. He's a great #4-5 guy. He can play on the second pairing if he's being used with a good #3. If a team thinks he could be a big part of their defense - Olympian, Cup Ring, veteran - and is willing to pony up for him? Thanks for the memories Jonny.

He's going to get paid next summer though. After seeing what Niskanen and Orpik just got, I'd be hard pressed to see him not making considerably more than Hammer.

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07-11-2014, 09:17 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by puterwiz53 View Post
Is everyone forgetting how well Brookbank played with Keith in the playoffs when Seabs was suspended? Maybe Brookbank if re-signed would be fine paired with Hammy. Leddy is not ready to be moved up but Bowman might just do that to see how far he has progressed and whether to move him next off season. Clendenning would probably work out fine with Hammy. He is certainly NHL ready and is an offensive defense man who has improved a fair bit defensively.
Haven't forgotten how well Brookbank did in the playoffs. Trading Leddy gets you under the cap but doesn't let you sign Brookbank. Trading Oduya could get you under the cap and let you sign Brookbank for $1 million.

I wouldn't put Brookbank with Hammer though. We need to see what Leddy's got in a regular top 4 role.

If the D is a mess with Leddy in the top 4 then we fix it at the trade deadline.

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07-11-2014, 09:20 PM
  #40
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Brookbank was a solid #6-7 but we need to make room for a kid or two.

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07-11-2014, 09:22 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by zytz View Post
I really think this is a poor and irresponsible way to think about the season. It's dangerously close to the line of thinking that a roster can be formed such that a cup win is guaranteed- and that word has no meaning in the NHL. There's too much luck and random occurrence for any game to be guaranteed.

The best you can do is put yourself in the best possible position to be on the playoffs year after year after year. Teams that look toward the future tend to find themselves in the playoffs in the future. Teams that look at right now tend to be disappointed.

Oduya is better than Leddy defensively right now. But when does he decline- and for how long will he be better than Leddy?What is Leddy's ceiling? What is Dahlbeck's ceiling? Rundblad's? These players still have elements of unknown about them... and you can look at that as a risk if you want... or you can look at is as an opportunity - either one thing is for certain : Oduya is the player he is, and best case scenario will stay the same.

I got laughed at a few years ago for suggesting it- bit were following a similar model to the Sharks. Key differences being that our stockpile of starts are largely younger and better than theirs. Our prospects are better. They're not the favorite most years, but they're at least in the conversation. If you decide to go big for one year, and sacrifice the future to do so, then you're effectively giving your team less chances to win.
Holding onto Oduya is not sacrificing the future. In fact it's the exact opposite. It's an unusual situation in which the superior player for next year (Oduya) is worth less on the trade market than the inferior 2015 player (Leddy). Therefore, keeping Oduya maximizes our 2015 chances while building for the future with the pick(s) we'd get from Leddy. Meanwhile, one of the youngsters will step into Leddy's role on the 3rd pairing this season, and if that works out well can join Hammer on the 2nd pairing in 15-16.

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07-11-2014, 09:23 PM
  #42
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Brookbank was a solid #6-7 but we need to make room for a kid or two.
Rundblad counts as a "kid" as far as I'm concerned and he, Brookbank, and Rozy could all rotate in and out of the 3rd pairing.

We'll have plenty of kids next year. Just be patient.

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07-11-2014, 09:24 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by hawksrule View Post
Holding onto Oduya is not sacrificing the future. In fact it's the exact opposite. It's an unusual situation in which the superior player for next year (Oduya) is worth less on the trade market than the inferior 2015 player (Leddy). Therefore, keeping Oduya maximizes our 2015 chances while building for the future with the pick(s) we'd get from Leddy. Meanwhile, one of the youngsters will step into Leddy's role on the 3rd pairing this season, and if that works out well can join Hammer on the 2nd pairing in 15-16.
We may very well have to get rid of BOTH Oduya and Leddy to make the cap work. I wouldn't get too attached to either of them.

We won't have the chance at all to get anything in return from losing Oduya next summer. We could still get something in return for losing Leddy next summer.

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07-11-2014, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by hisgirlfriday View Post
Rundblad counts as a "kid" as far as I'm concerned and he, Brookbank, and Rozy could all rotate in and out of the 3rd pairing.

We'll have plenty of kids next year. Just be patient.
The fact that after this year we likely will be plugging quite a few holes with youngsters is even more of a reason to give a handful minutes this season.

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07-11-2014, 09:29 PM
  #45
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I'd prefer to keep both Oduya and Leddy and get rid of Bickell. He's the dead weight here. His inconsistency and lack of effort make me insane.

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07-11-2014, 09:31 PM
  #46
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We won't have the chance at all to get anything in return from losing Oduya next summer. We could still get something in return for losing Leddy next summer.
What is the haul we can get in return for Oduya now that makes it worth worsening our 14-15 defense?

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07-11-2014, 09:44 PM
  #47
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Considering how much 3-4D get in the UFA market these days, maybe someone's willing to give up something real nice for him. 1st round pick and or Good prospect? I guess I can see it happening then. But then it's still not a very good idea and just another example Bowman and Q are not on the same page.

If Hawks bottom-3 D ends up being Leddy/Rundblad/Rookie, Q's gonna play his top guys to death. Keith will probably go back to leading the NHL in ice-time. That can't be good.

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07-11-2014, 09:45 PM
  #48
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I'd prefer to keep both Oduya and Leddy and get rid of Bickell. He's the dead weight here. His inconsistency and lack of effort make me insane.
We will have to get rid of Oduya and Leddy and Bickell if we want to keep both Sharp and Seabrook.

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07-11-2014, 10:00 PM
  #49
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What is the haul we can get in return for Oduya now that makes it worth worsening our 14-15 defense?
Every cap-crunching scenario involves moving a D-man and risking making the defense and team overall worse.

If we move Rozy and Versteeg then we get garbage in return. We might be able to replace Rozy with Brookbank, but in Versteeg we are selling at the absolute bottom of the market for him whereas if we waited and he played better again we might get a more decent return or just take advantage of the cheap cap hit he has for coming years that could be very useful if we have to move Sharp the following season.

If we move Leddy we might get a nice return, but we weaken the power play and our defense gets a lot slower and older and we don't have the money to resign Brookbank but need a Rockford kid to be the 7th Dman while our bottom pairing is Rundblad-Rozsival... YIKES!!!

If we move Oduya, we break up our strong shutdown pairing, but we could get a nice return, we get to see what Leddy has to offer in a Top 4 role, we see what Rundblad has to offer getting regular starts on the 3rd line, and we can bring Brookbank back to keep veteran depth.

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07-11-2014, 10:36 PM
  #50
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I havent liked Oduya at all this season, but I'm a little wary of this. I understand we have to clear over 2M in cap to be right with the cap and also be able to bring up and down rockford guys in injury situations, but im not sure this is the right idea--mainly because who are we going to find in that role who will click just as much as oduya and hammer have? Hammer is definitely doing the heavy lifting, but they work together. I don't think we will find someone to do his job in our prospects or Leddy.

This is definitely the go for the cup year, thats why we signed Richards, but they're still going to have to make a move to get rid of that salary before the season starts--so they have to do something. I just don't know that Oduya is the right candidate.

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