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Hawks looking to trade Oduya

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Old
07-11-2014, 09:41 PM
  #51
Taze em
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Hey guys, keep it hush hush from the GM's of the NHL but Oduya wasn't very good last season. Remember?

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07-11-2014, 09:49 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by hisgirlfriday View Post
If we move Oduya, we break up our strong shutdown pairing, but we could get a nice return, we get to see what Leddy has to offer in a Top 4 role, we see what Rundblad has to offer getting regular starts on the 3rd line, and we can bring Brookbank back to keep veteran depth.
Leddy was not adequate in a 3rd pairing role, and has not shown himself worthy of a promotion. We can't assume that Hammer can just carry him. And Rundblad in the 3rd pairing makes me want to vomit.

I like Leddy, and I'm rooting for the guy. He has great potential. But at this point he is just plain bad at defense. Is it possible he can be decent on the 2nd pairing? Anything's possible, but I think it's a foolish gamble. 2014-15 is not the year to experiment.

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07-11-2014, 09:52 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Taze em View Post
Hey guys, keep it hush hush from the GM's of the NHL but Oduya wasn't very good last season. Remember?
apparently not. I guess if you throw the phrase 'one of the best shutdown pairs in the league' around enough times all of oduya's gaffes are forgiven.

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07-11-2014, 09:53 PM
  #54
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Leddy was not adequate in a 3rd pairing role, and has not shown himself worthy of a promotion. We can't assume that Hammer can just carry him. And Rundblad in the 3rd pairing makes me want to vomit.

I like Leddy, and I'm rooting for the guy. He has great potential. But at this point he is just plain bad at defense. Is it possible he can be decent on the 2nd pairing? Anything's possible, but I think it's a foolish gamble. 2014-15 is not the year to experiment.
Leddy is probably a top 3 3rd pairing defenseman in the NHL. You have lost all perspective of what a regular team's 3rd pairing looks like if you think Leddy isn't adequate.

Leddy finished 47th in defensive scoring this season. There are 30 teams. That means there are 1.5 D that score better than he does per team. And he played significantly less minutes. And is the best skater on the Hawks and probably top 10 in the league. And is a human embodiment of clean zone exits and zone entries.

But yea, he sucks because every once in a while he loses a battle in a corner as a 23 year old.


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07-11-2014, 09:55 PM
  #55
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apparently not. I guess if you throw the phrase 'one of the best shutdown pairs in the league' around enough times all of oduya's gaffes are forgiven.
Yep. The best shutdown pair was Hjalmarsson and whatever body part Hjalmarsson was hurtling in front of a puck after an Oduya turnover.

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07-11-2014, 10:01 PM
  #56
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Leddy is probably a top 3 3rd pairing defenseman in the NHL. You have lost all perspective of what a regular team's 3rd pairing looks like if you think Leddy isn't adequate.
Leddy's playoff performance was atrocious. Didn't approach adequate. He is not deserving of the 2nd pairing at this time.

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07-11-2014, 10:07 PM
  #57
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oduya was terrible vs the kings... absolutely terrible...I would not be opposed to trading him and upgrading Rosival...we need an influx of youth both upfront and on the back end...hammer/clendening would be a good match IMO

keith-seabrook
hammer-Leddy/clendening
????-Leddy/clendening

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07-11-2014, 10:09 PM
  #58
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You know that weakness Hjalmarsson has where he makes long stretch passes that go for icings? Those are clean zone entries with a D2D pass to Leddy. He's that fast.

You know that strength of Hjalmarsson of making great short zone exit passes to the Center or D partner? Those go to Leddy and Toews now for clean zone exits/zone entries.

You know that Hjalmarsson strength of having an active stick, great recover, clearing the crease and taking hits? That is a thunder and lightning pairing waiting to happen with Leddy. A Leddy who scored 37 pts in his only season paying over 20 mins a few seasons ago when he was 20(!!).

With Jelly, pencil him in for 45-50.

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07-11-2014, 10:24 PM
  #59
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You know that weakness Hjalmarsson has where he makes long stretch passes that go for icings? Those are clean zone entries with a D2D pass to Leddy. He's that fast.

You know that strength of Hjalmarsson of making great short zone exit passes to the Center or D partner? Those go to Leddy and Toews now for clean zone exits/zone entries.

You know that Hjalmarsson strength of having an active stick, great recover, clearing the crease and taking hits? That is a thunder and lightning pairing waiting to happen with Leddy. A Leddy who scored 37 pts in his only season paying over 20 mins a few seasons ago when he was 20(!!).

With Jelly, pencil him in for 45-50.
But you're ignoring that he isn't actually good at defense.

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07-11-2014, 10:26 PM
  #60
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But you're ignoring that he isn't actually good at defense.
neither is Oduya they are both terrible at the D side of things...

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07-11-2014, 11:09 PM
  #61
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It's not fair to him but when I think Oduya I think him getting his pocket picked in the defensive zone and scored on by Doan (at least I think it was Doan?) in the 2012 Phoenix series.

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07-11-2014, 11:13 PM
  #62
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neither is Oduya they are both terrible at the D side of things...
That's just not true. Oduya is not an all-star, but he is a solid #4, and works well with Hammer.

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07-11-2014, 11:18 PM
  #63
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Hmmmm. His coughing up of the puck when pressured has also been consistent, as has his inability or unwillingness to tie up ops near the blue paint. It never ceases to amaze me how some continue to overrate Oduya.
He's a number 4 making 3.3 against the cap. Consider his play in that context. Over the last 8 playoff series, he's been the 3rd best defender after Keith and Hjalmarsson, especially in relation to what he's eating on the cap.

Yes he's flawed. He's good with his stick, his positioning is good, his skating is very good, and he doesn't slow down the forwards in the system. He's far from perfect, I don't think people that like him are overrating him as much as some claim they do. He's a solid player for his role, his cap hit, and in the Hawks' system. On top of that, he stays on the ice, I think that's one thing that gets overlooked too often when rating players.

I think he's worth keeping for the year before losing him as an UFA.

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07-11-2014, 11:24 PM
  #64
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Leddy is a part of the future, IMO.

He is our best weapon among Dmen the power play already, IMO and will likely continue to improve.

Why do people keep saying we have prospects like him? No we don't. Literally none of our prospects are similar. Clendening is a righty shot, nowhere near as good a skater and doesn't have as good of a shot(Clendening shoots wrist shots and focuses more on getting deflections and sacrifices power for accuracy). Also Leddy is already the best Dman on the Hawks at carrying the puck and gone entry with pick possession. That isn't really Clendening's game. A lot of people who don't care to watch but instead make their judgements based on hockeydb. Not all offensive dmen are similar.

Oduya and Roszival are likely gone after this year. Seabrook's contract is up the year after that. If Johns lives up to his potential and or Seabrook wants too much money then he could be gone too.

Leddy has a chance to be on the Hawks for the next 10 years. I don't want to trade that for a guy in Oduya who is 34 years old and likely only a 1-2 year stop-gap.

In 5 years...Keith is 36, Seabrook is 34, Hjalmarsson is 32, and Leddy is 28 years old.

So are we really going to rely on drafting or developing a Johns, Clendening, ect. into a future core Dman to rely on? I'd rather keep Leddy. He may already be better than Oduya by next season. People are so overreactionary over a bad playoffs. Trade Sharp, trade Leddy...should've traded Toews after last year and Oduya when he was terrible against the Coyotes.

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07-11-2014, 11:26 PM
  #65
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apparently not. I guess if you throw the phrase 'one of the best shutdown pairs in the league' around enough times all of oduya's gaffes are forgiven.
For 3.3, they're acceptable in that role for 20 minutes or more a night. He's no Stoner, Scuderi, or Allen for about the same price, but I'll take him (joking).

I'm still far more troubled by Seabrook's gaffes the last two years for 5.8.

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07-11-2014, 11:31 PM
  #66
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Leddy is a part of the future, IMO.

He is our best weapon among Dmen the power play already, IMO and will likely continue to improve.
I like Leddy, I'm a fan. It's a matter of giving something up while a team is in a contention window and Leddy is in a role where it's nearly impossible to play to his cap hit on a cap strapped team. He might also yield some cheap good young players in return that hedge against the cap hits in the following years. Q's lack of trust in him makes is reason enough to question keeping him around next year over Oduya.

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07-12-2014, 01:28 AM
  #67
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Leddy is a part of the future, IMO.

He is our best weapon among Dmen the power play already, IMO and will likely continue to improve.

Why do people keep saying we have prospects like him? No we don't. Literally none of our prospects are similar. Clendening is a righty shot, nowhere near as good a skater and doesn't have as good of a shot(Clendening shoots wrist shots and focuses more on getting deflections and sacrifices power for accuracy). Also Leddy is already the best Dman on the Hawks at carrying the puck and gone entry with pick possession. That isn't really Clendening's game. A lot of people who don't care to watch but instead make their judgements based on hockeydb. Not all offensive dmen are similar.

Oduya and Roszival are likely gone after this year. Seabrook's contract is up the year after that. If Johns lives up to his potential and or Seabrook wants too much money then he could be gone too.

Leddy has a chance to be on the Hawks for the next 10 years. I don't want to trade that for a guy in Oduya who is 34 years old and likely only a 1-2 year stop-gap.

In 5 years...Keith is 36, Seabrook is 34, Hjalmarsson is 32, and Leddy is 28 years old.

So are we really going to rely on drafting or developing a Johns, Clendening, ect. into a future core Dman to rely on? I'd rather keep Leddy. He may already be better than Oduya by next season. People are so overreactionary over a bad playoffs. Trade Sharp, trade Leddy...should've traded Toews after last year and Oduya when he was terrible against the Coyotes.
Fine post sir, fine post indeed

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07-12-2014, 01:39 AM
  #68
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Rundblad, Johns, Leddy, Dahlbeck; there's just too much potential not to let them have the 4-7 spots. They will not all work out, but a couple will show the ability to be a 2nd pairing D. As for 2C, we needed a good vet. We need TT to help provide that extra layer of depth while he grows as a player. The Hawks way.

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07-12-2014, 06:07 AM
  #69
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For 3.3, they're acceptable in that role for 20 minutes or more a night. He's no Stoner, Scuderi, or Allen for about the same price, but I'll take him (joking).

I'm still far more troubled by Seabrook's gaffes the last two years for 5.8.
Far more! Oh please.

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07-12-2014, 07:04 AM
  #70
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This is actually the lesser of 3 evils. You trade Sharp, you lose a big chuck of offense. You trade Bickell, you lose a physical presence on an already soft team. You trade Oduya, it slots Leddy into the #4 spot and someone else fills in on #5 or #6. I for one would like to see Leddy moved up. See if he steps it up. To me, Oduya is the most expendable.
This is so true. They may also believe they could add a dman at the deadline if they don't trust nick at that point and make the remaining money fit

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07-12-2014, 08:11 AM
  #71
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Losing Oduya will create a huge hole on d but thats the reality of the situation. You can plug in the prospects but its going to be ugly for awhile until the prospects get up to speed (besides the rookie wall and sophomore slump). Oduyas 32 (will be 33 October 1) and will be a UFA after next year. I dont see his play slowing down but he has reached his celing which is a 4 dman and does it well. Better to try to get something back now than lose him outright with no compensation after next year. Leddy would be another b/c while his cap hit is 2.7, his salary is 3.4 which means he'll probably have to be offered more than 3.4 AAV on his next contract. His offense is plus but defense is 3rd pairing.

Dahlbeck may be better defensively right now than Leddy. Hard to say but at least he looks to have that potential based on his play at Rockford. Hes a SAH dman as opposed to Leddy whos a PP puck moving dman.

Johns looks like a beast. Rather have him spend a full year in Rockford and thats probably what they'll do but I wouldnt be surprised if hes moved up sooner.

Clendening is another wild card. Posted superior offensive numbers but defense is unknown. Pirri was a top point producer in the AHL. Im sure the Hawks will be evaluating all 3 in the prospect camp and probably pro camp if they get invited.

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07-12-2014, 08:21 AM
  #72
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But you're ignoring that he isn't actually good at defense.
I don't see that he's any worse than Oduya. And honestly my biggest problem with the kind of mistakes that Oduya makes is that they're just poor decisions. Making poor passes that get picked off, making poor passes to a Hjalmarsson that's still tied up along the boards... extremely just terrible awful decisions about when to pinch. Leddy's mistakes are due to being young, not being aggressive enough, not having enough confidence in his ability to break up plays. Things that he still has plenty of time to learn. All said and done, I feel like Leddy's biggest mistake is skating the puck in deep and not having a plan for it. Oduya's best quality is his willingness to block shots. If that's all that's missing if we move him we can bring back Brookbank or John Scott. Doesn't take a $3m + defender to block a shot.

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07-12-2014, 08:23 AM
  #73
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Far more! Oh please.
For the last 8 playoff series cumulatively, Seabrook has made more large mistake in my opinion, and he has a more important role, more minutes, and a bigger cap hit. So yes, when a top pair type has a tougher time than the 2nd pair type, I'm more concerned about the more valuable one of the two.

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07-12-2014, 08:26 AM
  #74
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Leddy is a part of the future, IMO.

He is our best weapon among Dmen the power play already, IMO and will likely continue to improve.

Why do people keep saying we have prospects like him? No we don't. Literally none of our prospects are similar. Clendening is a righty shot, nowhere near as good a skater and doesn't have as good of a shot(Clendening shoots wrist shots and focuses more on getting deflections and sacrifices power for accuracy). Also Leddy is already the best Dman on the Hawks at carrying the puck and gone entry with pick possession. That isn't really Clendening's game. A lot of people who don't care to watch but instead make their judgements based on hockeydb. Not all offensive dmen are similar.

Oduya and Roszival are likely gone after this year. Seabrook's contract is up the year after that. If Johns lives up to his potential and or Seabrook wants too much money then he could be gone too.

Leddy has a chance to be on the Hawks for the next 10 years. I don't want to trade that for a guy in Oduya who is 34 years old and likely only a 1-2 year stop-gap.

In 5 years...Keith is 36, Seabrook is 34, Hjalmarsson is 32, and Leddy is 28 years old.

So are we really going to rely on drafting or developing a Johns, Clendening, ect. into a future core Dman to rely on? I'd rather keep Leddy. He may already be better than Oduya by next season. People are so overreactionary over a bad playoffs. Trade Sharp, trade Leddy...should've traded Toews after last year and Oduya when he was terrible against the Coyotes.
Wish I had seen this sooner- great post.

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07-12-2014, 09:19 AM
  #75
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He's a number 4 making 3.3 against the cap. Consider his play in that context. Over the last 8 playoff series, he's been the 3rd best defender after Keith and Hjalmarsson, especially in relation to what he's eating on the cap.

Yes he's flawed. He's good with his stick, his positioning is good, his skating is very good, and he doesn't slow down the forwards in the system. He's far from perfect, I don't think people that like him are overrating him as much as some claim they do. He's a solid player for his role, his cap hit, and in the Hawks' system. On top of that, he stays on the ice, I think that's one thing that gets overlooked too often when rating players.

I think he's worth keeping for the year before losing him as an UFA.
Oduya was not the 3rd best defender on the Hawks in the Kings series. Come on.

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