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MLB Discussion Thread Part IV: Tanaka Injured

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Old
07-14-2014, 03:08 PM
  #26
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Matsuzaka is a free agent at the end of the year.

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It's just pain.
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07-14-2014, 05:26 PM
  #27
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We could have 11 potential starters next year, which is even worse of a dilemma than 8.

Harvey, Niese, Gee, Wheeler, Colon, deGrom, Syndergaard, Mejia, Dice-K, Hefner, Montero
Dice-K won't be back. I was working under the assumption that Colon was going to be traded. That 2nd year on his contract is troublesome for some team.

Hefner is a guy I NEVER want to see in the rotation again. You just rattled off 10 guys who are currently better than him. If Hefner is on this team next year he'll be in the bullpen as a long reliever/spot starter.

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07-14-2014, 06:13 PM
  #28
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Dice-K won't be back. I was working under the assumption that Colon was going to be traded. That 2nd year on his contract is troublesome for some team.

Hefner is a guy I NEVER want to see in the rotation again. You just rattled off 10 guys who are currently better than him. If Hefner is on this team next year he'll be in the bullpen as a long reliever/spot starter.
I think he had found his stride. I could see Hef posting up numbers like 4.2-4.5 ERA. Nothing to write home about. But on a team without the depth that we have for SP... Hef would be a decent 4 or 5.

I do think he could be a great long-inning reliever/spot starter. Better in smaller doses.

I read that Dice-K signed a 2 year deal. Eliminate him from my list of 11.

As for Matz, didn't Viola just call him a fast riser within the system? Warthen compared him to Kershaw. He's doing well in AA right now. When the roster expands in September, if Matz is still dominating in AA, he could be promoted to AAA. My middle of next year, he could also be a viable SP.

Regardless. My point is the same as yours. We need to start dealing from depth to get positions of need.

Although, as much as I know I could be criticized here for saying this, I love what Alderson has done and I think we really don't have too many positions we need to fill any longer (besides the immediate glaring holes of SS and LF).

In 1.5 years, which in the grand scheme of things isn't the longest time to be waiting, we could have a glut of players in those holes too, creating similar logjams of talent amongst most of our positions.

Conforto being hailed at as a better prospect than Syndergaard is really something I think is underrated. If he can provide similar numbers to Murphy... this will be a hard line up to compete with game in and game out. Conforto in LF. Lagares in CF. Granderson in RF. What about Nimmo? He could be better than Granderson, in terms of all around player. Infield? Herrera at 2b. Reynolds at 2b/SS. Cecchini if he can ever develop into the "safe" but above average MLB pick he's projected to become @ SS. What about Rosario, the guy that every one of the Mets scouts thinks has the biggest star potential in the system. Plawecki at C. Dom Smith at 1b.

All of these guys are projected to be competing for MLB spots by 2016 (For Rosario and Cecchini it'll likely be 2017).

For all the flack that Alderson gets... he's equipped this team with a surplus of talented young players at pretty much every position. I'm sure there are guys that I've missed. Certainly not all of them will pan out, but hell, with how this organization has developed their prospects since Alderson and Co have come, I have confidence that most of them will become serviceable, if not above average MLB players - like the state of our rotation is currently in.

The question is if Alderson believes that he can improve this team for the next 1.5 years in hopes of making the playoffs both now and in the future. Could you get a game changing LF or SS w/ a combination from Montero, Plawecki, Ynoa, and whomever the prospect Colon nets?

We'll see, I guess.

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Old
07-14-2014, 06:25 PM
  #29
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Anderson literally deserves no flack. The only bad move he's made was Ramon Ramirez+Torres for Pagan, and even then the process wasn't that bad. People were crying about Grandy but Granderson has been crazy good since the end of May.

Turning Dickey into Syndergaard and D'Arnaud. Turning Byrd into Herrera, who's been real good this year. Nimmo has had a fantastic year. Plawecki will get a haul since he'll be better than a backup but TDA is the real deal.

Anderson is a fantastic GM. Harvey comes back next year. If the Mets could make one big signing they'd be at LEAST a lock for the 2nd wild card next year, IMO. They'll be competing for it next year with Harvey.

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07-14-2014, 06:29 PM
  #30
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Pythagorean win-loss for the Metsies is 50-45. They've been a little unlucky. I feel good about what they've done this year. Some guys have taken steps forward. Future looks bright.

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07-14-2014, 06:32 PM
  #31
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Anderson literally deserves no flack. The only bad move he's made was Ramon Ramirez+Torres for Pagan, and even then the process wasn't that bad. People were crying about Grandy but Granderson has been crazy good since the end of May.

Turning Dickey into Syndergaard and D'Arnaud. Turning Byrd into Herrera, who's been real good this year. Nimmo has had a fantastic year. Plawecki will get a haul since he'll be better than a backup but TDA is the real deal.

Anderson is a fantastic GM. Harvey comes back next year. If the Mets could make one big signing they'd be at LEAST a lock for the 2nd wild card next year, IMO. They'll be competing for it next year with Harvey.

Not what the Blue Jays fans wanted to hear. They could live with Syndergaard turning into legit top of the rotation arm but both him and D'Arnaud reaching their ceilings. Yikes.

Been saying for a while that TDAs injury history is overblown. Bad back he had 3-4 years ago ... fine. But people labelled him a health risk after he got injured sliding into 2nd base.

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07-14-2014, 06:36 PM
  #32
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Even assuming some prospects bust..

Harvey
Syn
Wheeler
Two of Niese/deGrom/Matz/Montero/lots of other talented arms in the system

Can't even project the lineup. Lots of talent, and lots of trades to be made. Is Murph resigned or traded, with Herrera having such a crazy year? Plawecki is good, but TDA is the real deal. Does Plaw play some 1B and backup catcher? Is he traded?

Mets will be very good fairly soon. Sandy is the man.

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07-14-2014, 06:39 PM
  #33
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A lot of people are under the impression that deGrom is having an incredibly lucky stretch. The scouting report on him is that he's a guy who's a contact pitcher, and the ball path going right to the fielders is a thing that will turn around against him and make him less successful.

To that I say, Bartolo has had a lot of success doing that over the years, and he's better than fine.

I like deGrom.

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07-14-2014, 06:39 PM
  #34
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Not what the Blue Jays fans wanted to hear. They could live with Syndergaard turning into legit top of the rotation arm but both him and D'Arnaud reaching their ceilings. Yikes.

Been saying for a while that TDAs injury history is overblown. Bad back he had 3-4 years ago ... fine. But people labelled him a health risk after he got injured sliding into 2nd base.
I'll admit, I was low on TDA before he went back to Vegas. It's only been two weeks but he's been real good with the bat. He was good behind the plate, but he looked lost. Since he went to Vegas he's hitting EVERYTHING hard. He's striking out more, but i'll take the more power, less walks TDA who can put up an .850 OPS over two weeks with good defense over the one that was walking but not hitting anything.

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07-14-2014, 06:41 PM
  #35
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I'll admit, I was low on TDA before he went back to Vegas. It's only been two weeks but he's been real good with the bat. He was good behind the plate, but he looked lost. Since he went to Vegas he's hitting EVERYTHING hard. He's striking out more, but i'll take the more power, less walks TDA who can put up an .850 OPS over two weeks with good defense over the one that was walking but not hitting anything.
Wally moved him closer to the plate. It was pretty evident he was standing too far away, he couldn't reach anything on the outside. His confidence has increased and moving closer to the plate has helped him re-find his stroke that so many scouts and evaluators praised in the minors.

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07-14-2014, 06:42 PM
  #36
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A lot of people are under the impression that deGrom is having an incredibly lucky stretch. The scouting report on him is that he's a guy who's a contact pitcher, and the ball path going right to the fielders is a thing that will turn around against him and make him less successful.

To that I say, Bartolo has had a lot of success doing that over the years, and he's better than fine.

I like deGrom.
deGrom is fun to watch. I think this stretch he's been on is mostly because he's facing the Braves and Marlins, two teams very fond of striking out, but he'll be a good 4th starter at the very least.

Not a single guy in the rotation I don't like watching right now, except maybe Bartolo. Add Harvey and Syndergaard next year? Jeez.

I'd like to see Harv-Wheeler-Synd-Niese-deGrom next year. Montero knocking on the door, and Matz not far behind. Then you have Gee who's also a very good back of the rotation starter.

Lots of talent.

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07-14-2014, 06:47 PM
  #37
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deGrom is fun to watch. I think this stretch he's been on is mostly because he's facing the Braves and Marlins, two teams very fond of striking out, but he'll be a good 4th starter at the very least.

Not a single guy in the rotation I don't like watching right now, except maybe Bartolo. Add Harvey and Syndergaard next year? Jeez.

I'd like to see Harv-Wheeler-Synd-Niese-deGrom next year. Montero knocking on the door, and Matz not far behind. Then you have Gee who's also a very good back of the rotation starter.

Lots of talent.
I have to say that I like watching everyone in the rotation besides Colon. I even like watching Dice-K pitch.

I think you can conceivably trade Gee in the winter... but guys like him are critical to the success of a team. He gives you a solid 7 inning game, nearly every time he's out. He's not a wild card. He rarely gets shelled. But he'll give you those solid 7 innings. 1 run, 2 run ball. Where he falls flat is after he's pitched 95 pitches... which to me, is fine, with the bullpen that we now have.

I don't know. It's a good problem to have, that's for sure. Something we're not used to saying.

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07-14-2014, 07:02 PM
  #38
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Dice-K won't be back. I was working under the assumption that Colon was going to be traded. That 2nd year on his contract is troublesome for some team.

Hefner is a guy I NEVER want to see in the rotation again. You just rattled off 10 guys who are currently better than him. If Hefner is on this team next year he'll be in the bullpen as a long reliever/spot starter.
Hefner is at best a long reliever/spot starter. And, Mejia has taken to the closer role, so I don't think we see him starting on this team. Matz is the definite sleeper in the group. And, I put Montero as a trade chip.

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07-14-2014, 07:39 PM
  #39
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deGrom is fun to watch. I think this stretch he's been on is mostly because he's facing the Braves and Marlins, two teams very fond of striking out, but he'll be a good 4th starter at the very least.

Not a single guy in the rotation I don't like watching right now, except maybe Bartolo. Add Harvey and Syndergaard next year? Jeez.

I'd like to see Harv-Wheeler-Synd-Niese-deGrom next year. Montero knocking on the door, and Matz not far behind. Then you have Gee who's also a very good back of the rotation starter.

Lots of talent.
I think Gee is more than a back-end guy. Over the last year-plus, he has been a #2/#3 pretty easily. He just knows how to pitch. His stuff won't blow you away, but that's not everything there is to being an excellent starter.

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07-14-2014, 07:53 PM
  #40
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I think Gee is more than a back-end guy. Over the last year-plus, he has been a #2/#3 pretty easily. He just knows how to pitch. His stuff won't blow you away, but that's not everything there is to being an excellent starter.
In a rotation with Harvey, Wheeler, Syndergaard, and Niese, he's a back of the rotation starter.

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07-14-2014, 08:05 PM
  #41
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In a rotation with Harvey, Wheeler, Syndergaard, and Niese, he's a back of the rotation starter.
That's not true until someone from that group other than Harvey actually outperforms Gee with any level of consistency.

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07-14-2014, 08:08 PM
  #42
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In a rotation with Harvey, Wheeler, Syndergaard, and Niese, he's a back of the rotation starter.
Harvey and Niese maybe, but Wheeler and Syndergaard haven't proven anything.

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07-14-2014, 09:25 PM
  #43
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In a rotation with Harvey, Wheeler, Syndergaard, and Niese, he's a back of the rotation starter.
I'd trade Wheeler for Castro straight up. Wheeler is way too inconsistent. You can't start labeling him a front end starter til he proves he can be consistent.

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07-15-2014, 12:00 AM
  #44
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I'd trade Wheeler for Castro straight up. Wheeler is way too inconsistent. You can't start labeling him a front end starter til he proves he can be consistent.
Gonna cost more than Wheeler. I don't know about Castro though. Doesn't get on base, and doesn't field well.

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07-15-2014, 12:09 AM
  #45
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Even assuming some prospects bust..

Harvey
Syn
Wheeler
Two of Niese/deGrom/Matz/Montero/lots of other talented arms in the system

Can't even project the lineup. Lots of talent, and lots of trades to be made. Is Murph resigned or traded, with Herrera having such a crazy year? Plawecki is good, but TDA is the real deal. Does Plaw play some 1B and backup catcher? Is he traded?

Mets will be very good fairly soon. Sandy is the man.
I wrote Sandy a letter at some point, just blowing off some steam after a bad game. He actually wrote me back and commented on my points. He called Murphy enigmatic which I thought was awesome.

But future is definitely bright.

Harvey/Niese/Wheeler/Syndergaard/DeGrom should be the starting rotation next year. Matz is going to be excellent in my opinion.

Bring me Stanton and I'll believe

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07-15-2014, 12:57 AM
  #46
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I wrote Sandy a letter at some point, just blowing off some steam after a bad game. He actually wrote me back and commented on my points. He called Murphy enigmatic which I thought was awesome.

But future is definitely bright.

Harvey/Niese/Wheeler/Syndergaard/DeGrom should be the starting rotation next year. Matz is going to be excellent in my opinion.

Bring me Stanton and I'll believe
Wow that is awesome. I have always liked Sandy. We're a trade away from being contenders and our farm is stacked. Love it.

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07-15-2014, 06:10 AM
  #47
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Yep. I never understood the dudes who ripped SA. Really the only bad thing Sandy has done is the Pagan trade. Besides that, every other move he's made has been on point.

Really, SS is the only organization weakness I see. Duda is swinging the bat crazy good at 1st and Smith is a good prospect. Murph is the man and will be the man here if he's not traded, and if he is Dilson is a great prospect. 3rd has Wright playing, at the very least, 3-4 WAR baseball guaranteed for the next 4 years. Lagares is a stud in the OF (as long as he can keep bringing a >99 wRC+), and Nimmo/Conforto will fill out the corners nicely. Don't even have to talk about the rotation.

AND Parnell is coming back to the pen next year. Mejia, Familia, Parnell is a great core for the BP. Get a better LOOGY than Edgin and that's an elite pen with complementary guys like Torres for low-leverage situations.

That's without factoring in any signings. If Nimmo/Conforto aren't ready soon, i'm sure Sandy can nab a Grandy like player.

It's a shame Harvey isn't around this year. I think the Mets could've played for the second wild card. Next year is gonna be a lot of fun, and the future is even brighter.

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07-15-2014, 06:25 AM
  #48
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I would be okay with trading for Castro, though I'd rather go for someone like Gregorius. Someone cheap, since it looks like we'll have some payroll constraints for the next couple seasons.

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07-15-2014, 09:30 AM
  #49
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I hope the Yankees tank in the 2nd half. No Tanaka for at least 6 weeks. Tanaka had 12 out of the Yankees 47 wins. How many games are the Yankees winning without Tanaka? CC might need micro fracture knee surgery which probably needs his career. Grandy Sizemore had that surgery. A lot of miles on CC's arm too. The Yankees aren't getting any value from that contract. The top 10 picks in the MLB draft are protected. That pick can't be forfeited by signing a free agent. Like the Yankees need to sign another big $ free agent like Jon Lester or Nelson Cruz. The Yankees have the 14th worst record in baseball. Ownership spent $438M last winter. Tanaka will probably end up having Tommy John surgery. They can try the rehab. He will miss 2015 with the surgery. His luxury tax number is $22M. CC is at $24.4M. AROD comes back on the payroll at $27.5M. $74M. Will AROD be on the team? The Yankess waive him and they still owe him the money. He is not retiring and giving up $63M. Even if AROD plays next season,40 year old man with bad legs and he hasn't played since September 2013. The Yankees have $161M committed in actual salary for next season in 10 players. Insurance will cover most of the Tanaka and CC salaries but they still count against the tax. 50% over $189M and the team stinks.

The Mets have their opportunity to take over NY baseball like they did from 1985/86 to 1988.

The Yankees are in shambles and they don't have the stomach to rebuild. They keep spending money and trying to remain competitive. The chickens have come home to roost.

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The Yanks have tried mightily and financially to extend the good times, but with ebbing success. No one has stepped into the forefront as the Next Great Yankee to take the Jeter baton. And, in many ways, the perhaps unrepeatable two decades worth of success combined with a new stadium that in pricing and sound-draining architecture has helped rob the franchise of aura and mystique has ushered in Yankees fatigue. Nothing they do or spend is enough right now.

They are just 18-23 at home and open the second half with 10 games in The Bronx that should define at least for 2014 their path. But their docile farm system has forged larger and longer-lasting issues for the franchise. Like a bad political policy repeated, the Yankees keep trying to spend their way out of a problem that cannot be solved simply with a fat wallet, or else you end up watching too many CC Sabathias and A-Rods crumble or Beltrans and Brian McCanns fail.
http://nypost.com/2014/07/14/the-met...nks-right-now/

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07-15-2014, 09:49 AM
  #50
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I would be okay with trading for Castro, though I'd rather go for someone like Gregorius. Someone cheap, since it looks like we'll have some payroll constraints for the next couple seasons.
I don't think that we need to trade for a SS.

Ruben has been batting .266 these last couple of weeks. Even if he's batting in the neighborhood of .240, i'd be OK with it because of the defensive support that we're getting from him.

Gregorious, by all accounts, is an even worse batter than Tejada - if that's possible.

Owings was the D-Back SS I would have targeted, but he's going to be impossible to trade for with how he's been playing as of late. .277 BA 6 hrs 21 rbi 26 r. And he's still only 22.

I'm fine with keeping Ruben in there for the defense and keeping assets, instead of trading them for Castro. In fact, I don't even think the Cubs will trade Castro, but will instead likely be more willing to part with SS prospect Javier Baez... who I saw play during spring training and was thoroughly unimpressed by. A lot of hype because he hits moonshot home runs, but the guy is up there trying to chop lumber with every swing. It's a wonder he hasn't torn a back muscle. His swing is all out of sorts, and he seems like a prime candidate to me to be a guy that never materializes into the hype - similar to Lastings Milledge and Fernando Martinez.

Ruben would be fine if that meant that we used our assets to get a LF'er. Whether that means trading Colon to the Pirates for someone like Josh Bell, or finding a way to trade Colon to the Dodgers for Joc Pederson, or trading Colon for some sort of prospect and flipping that prospect with other ones for a veteran... I don't know.

I wouldn't be opposed to trading Colon for someone like Francisco Lindor, either. Word is that the Indians are being aggressive with trying to acquire Colon. Heyman predicts that the Mets will be able to acquire 1 very good upper level prospect for Colon's services. Lindor, at AA, being a very good player, fits that bill.

edit: Josh Bell is still 2 years away, himself. Still in A+ ball. Exciting prospect, though.

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