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Old
09-12-2005, 04:30 PM
  #1
HockeyBasedNYC
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Umberger

Curious about something...
The Rangers had him and let him go...
Now hes ranked 3rd on the HF Flyers prospect list and penciled in at the 5th spot on the Flyers depth chart at center(TSN)

Considering that the Rangers arent STACKED at center with prospects (yes, they do have a few)
What was there to lose with this guy? if I recall correctly, was he the cocky kid who asked for alot of $?

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09-12-2005, 04:31 PM
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Nich
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i heard he was a a-hole, and lazy.

rangers decided that he didn't have the attitude we wanted on this club, especially during rebuilding.

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09-12-2005, 04:32 PM
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Fletch
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I forget...

with the pick they got for not signing Umberger, who did they get? Was it Korpikoski, indirectly?

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09-12-2005, 04:33 PM
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HockeyBasedNYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nich
i heard he was a a$$hole, and lazy.

rangers decided that he didn't have the attitude we wanted on this club, especially during rebuilding.
Yeah, ok just wondering cause he seems to have decent scouting reports.
HMM I guess they shouldnt try and sign Kovalchuk then if thats such a priority.

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09-12-2005, 04:34 PM
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FLYLine24
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Rangers were just plain DUMB for not signing him. People give him the "bad attitude" sticker because he wanted the money, guess that means Kayria, Kovalchalk, and anybody else who held out has bad attitudes. If the rangers were smart we would have signed him for a year...if he didnt show anything we get rid of him..but Philly took the chance with him and he played great with their AHL team.

I know people are going to disagree with me and im fine with that, that just my feelings toward the whole thing.

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09-12-2005, 04:43 PM
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Actually the "bad attitude" label came from reports in the press or to be accurate something along the lines of "his personality didn't fit". There were also unofficial reports that Wolf Pack players didn't like him...

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09-12-2005, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish
Actually the "bad attitude" label came from reports in the press or to be accurate something along the lines of "his personality didn't fit". There were also unofficial reports that Wolf Pack players didn't like him...
Yea the report about how he walked into the locker room and came out with everyone hating him.....I never bought that.

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09-12-2005, 04:54 PM
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Fletch
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Something went wrong....

He was a gift (Vancouver didn't want him, and how much did anybody expect for Rucinsky anyways?). Sather & Co. put him to test in practice, workouts, etc. I'm sure if they were impressed they wouldn't mind jump-starting the prospect process with a former #1 with decent size. Vancouver seemingly didn't want the guy either, and who knows if Philly gets turned off in the end too. Right now, I don't believe he's costing much. The lack of a season helped a bit in that regard I guess.

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09-12-2005, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
He was a gift (Vancouver didn't want him, and how much did anybody expect for Rucinsky anyways?). Sather & Co. put him to test in practice, workouts, etc. I'm sure if they were impressed they wouldn't mind jump-starting the prospect process with a former #1 with decent size. Vancouver seemingly didn't want the guy either, and who knows if Philly gets turned off in the end too. Right now, I don't believe he's costing much. The lack of a season helped a bit in that regard I guess.

I comes down to one of the big issues throughout this current regime, Fletch talent evaluation.

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09-12-2005, 04:57 PM
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If attitude and personality is so big with the rangers rebuilding, then how come they signed Vets to "help" the kids come along... and Adam Graves's and Ulf Samuelssons's... thats what their jobs are for. If the Rangers are so confident in the players's attitudes they are bringing in, then how come they have these vets helping out?

My point is, theres always a few kids that are out of line when they come up, its up to the organization to give them a shot and see if they can straighten them out. Adam Graves would make it a personal project i guarantee it. Look at a guy like Barnaby when he was a rookie he was a complete a** and he turned into a pretty good role/leader type player. Sometimes those type of kids have something the others dont. I personally wouldve given him a chance for a year... theres nothing to lose there, especialyl when you have the safety net of a "rebuilding" phase under you.

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09-12-2005, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC
If attitude and personality is so big with the rangers rebuilding, then how come they signed Vets to "help" the kids come along... and Adam Graves's and Ulf Samuelssons's... thats what their jobs are for. If the Rangers are so confident in the players's attitudes they are bringing in, then how come they have these vets helping out?

My point is, theres always a few kids that are out of line when they come up, its up to the organization to give them a shot and see if they can straighten them out. Adam Graves would make it a personal project i guarantee it. Look at a guy like Barnaby when he was a rookie he was a complete a** and he turned into a pretty good role/leader type player. Sometimes those type of kids have something the others dont. I personally wouldve given him a chance for a year... theres nothing to lose there, especialyl when you have the safety net of a "rebuilding" phase under you.
Not sure if the vets they signed are guys that personify what the team is looking to be. They might be there to placate Jagr.

Then again, I don't buy the whole idea that Umberger was an attitude problem. I mean this is the front office that brought us Billy Tibbetts.

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09-12-2005, 05:10 PM
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Ulf and Graves...

aren't here to be baby sitters and attitude adjusters. They're here to help mold young players into NHLers and help teach in that transition. Sather may've said that he doesn't like the kid, and others don't like the kid, and while he's 22 and somewhat talented, he wanted to take his shot at finding someone else with that second round pick, which is likely the fair value for Umberger today anyways. I don't have too much of a problem with this, even though we (And I) seem to lack a good deal of information on the subject.

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09-12-2005, 05:26 PM
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Basically what happened is the Rangers received his rights. When they could not sign him, the Rangers were awarded Vancouver's second round draft choice which was then used to move up and acquire Korpi.It will interesting to see which player eventually becomes the better player.

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09-12-2005, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bathgate
Basically what happened is the Rangers received his rights. When they could not sign him, the Rangers were awarded Vancouver's second round draft choice which was then used to move up and acquire Korpi.It will interesting to see which player eventually becomes the better player.

I don't think it was a case of them not being able to sign him. I think they chose not to.


Last edited by SingnBluesOnBroadway: 09-12-2005 at 05:35 PM.
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09-12-2005, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bathgate
Basically what happened is the Rangers received his rights. When they could not sign him, the Rangers were awarded Vancouver's second round draft choice which was then used to move up and acquire Korpi.It will interesting to see which player eventually becomes the better player.
But whos to say we couldnt have gotten Korpi at 21 or whatever # we had??

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09-12-2005, 05:35 PM
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I would've liked to see him signed too but someone that young (22) who's asking for a lot of money and hasnt proven himself yet isnt worth it. I believe he was asking for around $1.2 mil a year (I heard that when they first got him from Vancouver).

Good for him that he got signed by Philly...they were willing to put up the money and take a chance on him.

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09-12-2005, 05:43 PM
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For chrissakes people he hasn't even played an NHL game yet.

The problem with Umberger was never talent it's the head on his shoulders. Those questions came from college, the canucks, the wolfpack and unless something major happens they'll likely surface again in the future.

At the end of the day the Rangers decided that the talent didn't outweigh the potential problems.

I don't particulary have a problem with this move. If it works for the Flyers thats good for them, but it was a personal decision made based on specific attribute they wanted to see from their kids.

In exchange the Rangers got Korpikoski. It's not like this team traded him for the rights to Jason Muzzati.

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09-12-2005, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine88
But whos to say we couldnt have gotten Korpi at 21 or whatever # we had??
That's a very good point. Or they could have kept Umberger and drafted Schremp with their original pick from TO. I would personally rather have two kids with alot of talent and alleged attitude problems, over just having Korpikoski, especially with how weak this team is up front.

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09-12-2005, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine88
Rangers were just plain DUMB for not signing him. People give him the "bad attitude" sticker because he wanted the money, guess that means Kayria, Kovalchalk, and anybody else who held out has bad attitudes. If the rangers were smart we would have signed him for a year...if he didnt show anything we get rid of him..but Philly took the chance with him and he played great with their AHL team.

I know people are going to disagree with me and im fine with that, that just my feelings toward the whole thing.


Great post, I agree with everything you said here........how many times have we heard Sather say "assets" we need more of them. Umberger is that............a former first round pick and outscored every single wolfpack player which are our prospects with thier heads screwed on right. Isn't Sather the same guy who gave Billy Tibbets an NHL contract with the Rangers?! Ahhh yes bad additude isn't that the reason we passed on Robbie Schremp and took Korp also?

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09-12-2005, 06:20 PM
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I actually interviewed him last year. He said that the Rangers asked him to sign a two week tryout contract with the Pack, but he wasn't willing to risk getting hurt. He also said that the Rangers did offer him a contract, after they already got the extra draft pick, but Philly's offer was significantly better.

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09-12-2005, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sather Hater
That's a very good point. Or they could have kept Umberger and drafted Schremp with their original pick from TO. I would personally rather have two kids with alot of talent and alleged attitude problems, over just having Korpikoski, especially with how weak this team is up front.
Korpikoski was a risk considering their were at least two other teams looking to nab him.

And i couldn't disagree more about having two kids with attitute problems. I think NY'er underestimate just how volatile an environment the city is for certain personalities.

I think on this issue we are getting way too over dramamtic......again.

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09-12-2005, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radek27
Great post, I agree with everything you said here........how many times have we heard Sather say "assets" we need more of them. Umberger is that............a former first round pick and outscored every single wolfpack player which are our prospects with thier heads screwed on right. Isn't Sather the same guy who gave Billy Tibbets an NHL contract with the Rangers?! Ahhh yes bad additude isn't that the reason we passed on Robbie Schremp and took Korp also?
And they essentially traded him for a another, younger first round pick.

And one of the reasons that the Rangers and about 20 other teams passed on Schremp was because their was some glaring warning signs during that time. The first being his "interesting" interviews with a majority of teams, the second being the ever so amusing incident of him puking all over himself during the workout combine.

Remember the Rangers aren't the only teams were talking about with these kids.

One thing we can say about the current crop of prospects, they do have heart and character. For what it's worth I'm not terribly heartbroken taking a chance on Korpikoski at the expense of Umberger or passing on Schremp.

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09-12-2005, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
For chrissakes people he hasn't even played an NHL game yet.

The problem with Umberger was never talent it's the head on his shoulders. Those questions came from college, the canucks, the wolfpack and unless something major happens they'll likely surface again in the future.
I find it bizarre that people presume to know how other folks tick. Quite simply, you don't (not trying to single you out, but people in general). There's an idiom in sports where everyone who's mildly unhappy with their situation is automatically a headcase, and it simply isn't so.

I don't know if he's a jerk, or if he's a headcase, but I don't know the guy and I'm not him. The only honest way I have of evaluating him, is on-ice play, and in the end that's all that matters anyway. I know that in his time with the Phantoms, he worked extremely hard and was completely a team player, moving to wing without question after Jeff Carter came around during the AHL playoffs.

You can say what you want about his as a hockey player, but I'd be weary of discussing the mental state of the kid.

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09-12-2005, 06:49 PM
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I believe what Edge has posted...

is from a variety of sources, including articles, his own contacts and Umberger's actions. What he's saying seems quite reasonable, and I've always wondered why a healthy 20 year old would put himself in situation in which he doesn't play hockey for a season.

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09-12-2005, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
I've always wondered why a healthy 20 year old would put himself in situation in which he doesn't play hockey for a season.
Indeed, it is reasonable to wonder about another's situation, but none of us were privy to all or even most of the behind the scenes details of his circumstances in some of the places he's been. It's easy for us to say, "well if I had his skills, I'd play for peanuts and never have a care," but quite simply, we don't how we'd react in his very situation. Perhaps he truly believed his situation was unfair? I don't see that as being unreasonable, and I don't believe either of us can say with any certainty whether he was right or wrong. Simply put, it's not our place to decide whether or not someone is being "unfair" or is a "headcase" in these types of situations, especially when we don't know all of the facts. Let hockey players play hockey, and the rest will settle itself out.

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