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Where would Tretiak be ranked all time if he played in the NHL

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Old
07-16-2014, 10:43 PM
  #1
toedrag87
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Where would Tretiak be ranked all time if he played in the NHL

I just recently watched a documentary on the 72 summit series and saw that Vladislav Tretiak was the goalie for the Russians at the time. It seems from the documentary, the series win for the Canadians was one of the biggest wins all time for the Canadians in international play. I've also seen documentaries on the U.S. miracle on ice which 8 years later was one of the biggest wins in U.S. international play. Once again Tretiak was goalie. I was born in 87 so I'm not very familiar with his play outside the documentaries but figured if beating this guy was the pinnacle of international play for two strong hockey countries 8 years apart, he must've been insanely good for quite some time. My question is, where would he rank in the all time best NHL goalies had he played in the NHL? Top 5? Top 10?

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07-16-2014, 10:46 PM
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VanIslander
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Closer to Dryden.

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07-16-2014, 11:08 PM
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Bure
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Better question for the history board. You'll get some uneducated answers here I think.

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07-16-2014, 11:19 PM
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SidGenoMario
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He would have been the greatest of all time 10 vezinas, 7 cups.

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07-16-2014, 11:21 PM
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Hero
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Everyone I know that's seen him play has said he was better than Hasek.

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07-16-2014, 11:22 PM
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He would've been the greatest.

Best team+Best goaltender, yep.

Some hockey hipsters would try to lobby for Hasek because "NO SUPPORT BLERGHALBALGB" but ultimately, he was the best and it was the best team.

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07-17-2014, 12:09 AM
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spiny norman
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Better question for the history board. You'll get some uneducated answers here I think.
Moved the thread.

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07-17-2014, 12:30 AM
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kmad
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He was brilliant but mildly inconsistent, big game player, and burned out quickly. I would say close to Bernie Parent. A lot of his current high regard is almost mythical in nature. He's a legend more than a player.

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07-17-2014, 01:30 AM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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He was brilliant but mildly inconsistent, big game player, and burned out quickly. I would say close to Bernie Parent. A lot of his current high regard is almost mythical in nature. He's a legend more than a player.
Eh, Tretiak actually had pretty good longevity; quite a bit better than Ken Dryden, for example. Started for the Soviets in 1972 and was probably at his best in the early 1980s

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07-17-2014, 03:52 AM
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kmad
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Eh, Tretiak actually had pretty good longevity; quite a bit better than Ken Dryden, for example. Started for the Soviets in 1972 and was probably at his best in the early 1980s
But he's closer to Parent in longevity than he is to Roy or Brodeur or Hasek or Plante or Hall.

And in comparison with Dryden - I know this has no actual effect on career value, but the end of Dryden's career was artificial. He could still play at an elite level, he just didn't want to.

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07-17-2014, 07:58 AM
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Somewhere in the top 4 or 5.

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07-17-2014, 08:14 AM
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Sentinel
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Both Dryden and Tretiak cut their careers short. But I rank Tretiak substantially higher. Not Hasek-high, but more like Sawchuk-high.

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07-17-2014, 09:32 AM
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Martin Riggs
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When he was goalie coach for the Hawks they wanted him to actually play. He of course declined though. Imagine if he actually played. Hawks would've been carrying Belfour, Hasek, and him.

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07-17-2014, 11:31 AM
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ForsbergForever
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And to think he was this close to joining the Habs in 1983... I wonder what his legacy (and Montreal's record) would be then? Imagine Tretiak tutoring a young Patrick Roy...

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07-17-2014, 12:24 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by kmad View Post
But he's closer to Parent in longevity than he is to Roy or Brodeur or Hasek or Plante or Hall.

And in comparison with Dryden - I know this has no actual effect on career value, but the end of Dryden's career was artificial. He could still play at an elite level, he just didn't want to.
If by "longevity," you mean how long he actually played, okay. I prefer to look at "longevity as an elite player," and Tretiak's was quite good for a 70s/80s European.

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07-17-2014, 03:49 PM
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Everyone I know that's seen him play has said he was better than Hasek.
Slight exaggeration, uh?

That would make him the best of all-time, bar none.

I always felt, that like most russian players from that era, he is quite overrated. I wish someone who saw him play often in Russia in the 1970s could bring this topic to light, because from what I understand, him being involved in the summit series makes him appear better than he really was.

It's like if you were to judge J-S Giguere's NHL potential only based on his performance in the 2003 playoffs.

How would he really fare over real 50+ game seasons in the NHL?

He is like a Chris Osgood from the 1970s-80s. He was a good goaltender on a stacked team. Bobby Clarke (I think) is the one who said Tretiak wasn't that good.

I don't doubt he could have most likely made a living in the NHL but it would be quite presumptuous to claim that he would be considered the greatest goaltender of all time.

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07-18-2014, 02:09 PM
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Big Phil
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Hard to say how he'd do year in and year out in an 80 game season with the best players in the world, but I have never seen why he couldn't have been close to the all-time top 10 list. Dryden is a name thrown around here, and I concur. We saw enough of Tretiak to realize he could steal the show. Surely he has a season or two where he's great throughout and steals a Vezina.

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07-18-2014, 03:39 PM
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People, you are talking about a FIVE TIME MVP of the Soviet League! Over Kharlamov, Mikhailov, Yakushev, etc. He had as many MVPs are Kharlamov and Makarov COMBINED!

Sure CSKA was stacked. But for a goalie on a stacked team to be named MVP one would have to be pretty darn special.

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07-18-2014, 04:13 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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People, you are talking about a FIVE TIME MVP of the Soviet League! Over Kharlamov, Mikhailov, Yakushev, etc. He had as many MVPs are Kharlamov and Makarov COMBINED!

Sure CSKA was stacked. But for a goalie on a stacked team to be named MVP one would have to be pretty darn special.
The counterargument to this is that goaltending was never a strong point of the USSR and he was so valuable because he was being compared to the rest of their goalies, none of whom were all that great on a global scale. Basically big fish in a small goaltending pond. Very different from Czechoslovakia, which cranked out strong goalies (Dzurilla, Holecek, Kralik, Hasek) but lacked much of the skill up front of the USSR.

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07-18-2014, 05:57 PM
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Sentinel
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More reasons to vote for Kharlamov and Maltsev. Soviet MVP voters valued beauty and artistry above all. They also weren't stupid not to realize that other teams were no match for CSKA's firepower to seriously challenge Tretiak.

Think about it: when was the last time a goalie on an offensively stacked club won a Vezina? Let alone Hart. Usually these prizes go to goalies on weaker teams: their achievements are more impressive and they are more vital to their team's success.

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07-18-2014, 05:59 PM
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when was the last time a goalie on an offensively stacked club won a Vezina? Let alone Hart. Usually these prizes go to goalies on weaker teams:
Usually the Hart prize doesn't go to goalies at all.

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07-18-2014, 06:14 PM
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Killion
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Usually the Hart prize doesn't go to goalies at all.
No. Very rare. Theodore, Hasek twice, Plante, Rollins, Rayner & Worters. Thats a Grand Total of 7 out of 90X's a Goalies won it since 1923/24.

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07-18-2014, 07:28 PM
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Ed Wood
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I think that in Europe the consensus is that Jiri Holocek was better than Tretiak. Tretiak was more impressive against North American competition but Holicek was better in Europe wining five top goalie awards in ten World Hockey Championships.

My guess is that Tretiak would have been a very good NHL goalie but I think it's a stretch to suggest that he'd rank among the truly elite. Top twenty all-time I could buy.

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07-18-2014, 07:41 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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I think that in Europe the consensus is that Jiri Holocek was better than Tretiak. Tretiak was more impressive against North American competition but Holicek was better in Europe wining five top goalie awards in ten World Hockey Championships.

My guess is that Tretiak would have been a very good NHL goalie but I think it's a stretch to suggest that he'd rank among the truly elite. Top twenty all-time I could buy.
I don't think it's a consensus (there are certainly some Russian fans who would disagree!), but it's a pretty common opinion from what I've seen, yes.

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07-18-2014, 08:24 PM
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I think he would be considered one of the best of all time. He was better than any of his contemporaries who included Dryden and Espo, two of the best of all time.

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