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J.T. Miller this season

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Old
07-17-2014, 12:23 PM
  #26
Mikos87
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I think Miller needs to fulfill a few things, and the team needs to put him in a position to succeed.

1. JT needs to come to camp in shape. This means cardiovascular conditioning for him in particular.

2. Faceoffs, JT was solid in the AHL and that needs to translate to the NHL level.

3. It is unlikely the coach trusts him at center, but JT needs to prove that he is making smart plays and not trying to do to much. JT has to make sure he sticks with his checks and does his homework with game tape.

4. Moving the puck quickly and decisively, JT has a thing with hanging onto the puck too long in the offensive zone.

5. Shooting on net, trying to create rebounds and not trying to snipe every shot.

The team however should put him in the middle to give him a look and give him two wingers with speed and have their sticks lined up. IE Hag-Miller-Fast.

The reason for this is to have two two-way players that can stretch the zone and help JT have the option of just airing it out and letting guys skate into the puck. The other is so that he doesn't have to always make tape to tape passes.

If these things click, then he should be a very valuable contributor. JT is a guy that wants it, and has it in him to do all the little things in all 3-Zones. He's just a little over exuberant and needs to chill and out and think the game a little better.

On Lindberg, I think he ends up making the big club this year and proves to be a very good two way player. Lindberg is a very smart player who lacked confidence early last year. If he comes in with the right frame of mind, there's no reason why Lindberg can't hop past some of the AHL friendly signings on this team.

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07-17-2014, 01:25 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
60 points is a reasonable expectation, but I think saying the "at worst" scenario is 70 points while playing with Hagelin and Miller is a bit much.



Except, ya know, last year. The most recent, and relevant season to the point at hand.
69 last year, true. With that abysmal end to the regular season after he had to transition.

Ok, worst case 60-70. Still better than every scorer we currently have, including Nash, who may or may not ever attain ppg status again.

My point wasn't to emphasize point totals, but instead, the quality of the players that will hypothetically surround Miller.

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07-17-2014, 01:29 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I think saying 70 points is the worst case for MSL is being awfully generous. Especially if he's playing with a 40-point winger with stone hands and a rookie center with 10 points in 56 games at the NHL level.
Mr. Stonehands played pretty great with MSL in the playoffs

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07-17-2014, 01:31 PM
  #29
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Stonehands lol.

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07-17-2014, 02:03 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
His first stint in the NHL was 6 games. That's hardly the same thing as 55 games with little to no improvement in his own end. He was also proficient at the AHL level while Miller has left a lot to be desired there as well.

A lot can happen, but nothing I've seen from Miller has made me believe that there's a solid chance of him making that kind of leap.
Miller was the same age this year that Dubinsky was the year he played 6 games for us. Neither looked ready but Miller looked more comfortable as a 20 or even 19 year than Dubinsky did as a 20 year old. And of course as a 21 year old Dubi played huge minutes.

As for their play in the AHL you are either seriously overrating Dubi or under ratting Miller. Dubi was more an agitator than a defensive stalwart. There was very little about Dubi's defensive play in the AHL that made me confident he would not only be a lock for top 9 center minutes but would center the Jagr line, which under Renney always ended up against opposition top lines.

And of course Miller is the clearly better offensive player. He matched Dubi's output (43 points) in 30 less games.

I am not expecting anything, but I wouldn't be surprised either.

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Old
07-17-2014, 02:03 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Wolfy View Post
J.T. J.T...the Ultimate Turnover Machine

Also the kid who ran his mouth against AV and got booted back to Hartford.

Okay I shouldn't be too hard, hope he breaks camp and has some success next season.
Does anyone actually know anything about the "Miller mouthing off to AV" situation?

I only know what AV said about him.

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07-17-2014, 02:15 PM
  #32
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I think Miller is being severely underestimated here. PPG as a 21 year old in the AHL is pretty impressive. He's had some moments in New York. Perhaps if he isn't always on "audition" but has a position, his confidence will grow and he will find his niche. He has skills and some grit. He also has some work to do.

The best hope for the 2014-15 Rangers is growth from within. Kreider, Zuccarello, Stepan, JMoore, Fast, Hagelin, Miller and others have plenty of room to develop their games much further. Coming off a Stanley Cup final season, these guys should be highly motivated to reach for another level in their careers.

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07-17-2014, 02:21 PM
  #33
Larry Melnyk
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Just like Lindberg and Fast, I don't think MILLER is ready (in his case, mentally and approach) for consistent NHL play on the top 3 lines...In the best of all worlds, all three should start the year in Hartford gaining more experience and confidence. My bet is that the Rangers bring in another forward (trade or FA) and MILLER and Fast contend for a 4th spot in NY (Glass-Moore-Miller might be pretty good) with the loser joining Lindberg in Hartford..If nobody else is brought in, the NHL road is wide open for JT

All that being said, the Rangers are far from deep team and either way there will plenty of opportunities/injuries for MILLER (and FAST) to play in the NHL this year..It will be up to them to run with it..

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Old
07-17-2014, 02:39 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by someone stole hank View Post
Mr. Stonehands played pretty great with MSL in the playoffs
To the tune of about .5PPG. Shocking that it puts him right in line with that "40 point winger" line, huh?

Hagelin has great speed, but he's not a finisher or a great setup man. If he had the hands of a scoring winger, he'd be a 70 point guy in his sleep. Unfortunately, he doesn't. He's a fantastic 3rd liner, but that's all he'll be until he can start scoring consistently. Not an ideal line mate for a guy who is, at worst, going to score 70 points.

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07-17-2014, 02:49 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
Miller was the same age this year that Dubinsky was the year he played 6 games for us. Neither looked ready but Miller looked more comfortable as a 20 or even 19 year than Dubinsky did as a 20 year old. And of course as a 21 year old Dubi played huge minutes.

As for their play in the AHL you are either seriously overrating Dubi or under ratting Miller. Dubi was more an agitator than a defensive stalwart. There was very little about Dubi's defensive play in the AHL that made me confident he would not only be a lock for top 9 center minutes but would center the Jagr line, which under Renney always ended up against opposition top lines.

And of course Miller is the clearly better offensive player. He matched Dubi's output (43 points) in 30 less games.

I am not expecting anything, but I wouldn't be surprised either.
I'm not doing either. I've watched Miller extensively and he's not a responsible defensive player whatsoever. I never called Dubinsky a "stalwart" either. I said he was "proficent" at the AHL level and competent when he stepped into full time NHL duty. Miller, on the other hand, has been a liability defensively in the NHL and below-average at best in the AHL.

The bar isn't "Patrice Bergeron-like" here. I'd settle for Miller creating more chances for us than he does the other team. Thus far, that hasn't been the case at the highest level, or even in the AHL. He makes very bad decisions with the puck on his stick, and loses coverage in his own zone. The points are great, but obviously not the only part that matters.

Anisimov was clearly the better offensive player in the AHL as well, and he's been consistently mediocre offensively in the NHL. He fits the same "PPG player in the AHL as a 21 year old" bit that has been flying around here lately in regards to Miller. Some players adapt, while others never find that next gear.

I'm not expecting anything either, but I'm also not rooting for the kid to fail. He has a nice set of tools. He has the size we lack down the middle. All I want is for him to actually look like he belongs in some capacity.

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Old
07-17-2014, 02:49 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
To the tune of about .5PPG. Shocking that it puts him right in line with that "40 point winger" line, huh?

Hagelin has great speed, but he's not a finisher or a great setup man. If he had the hands of a scoring winger, he'd be a 70 point guy in his sleep. Unfortunately, he doesn't. He's a fantastic 3rd liner, but that's all he'll be until he can start scoring consistently. Not an ideal line mate for a guy who is, at worst, going to score 70 points.
they had an absolute black hole for a center. Brad Richards was really really really REALLY bad down the stretch and in the playoffs.

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Old
07-17-2014, 02:56 PM
  #37
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they had an absolute black hole for a center. Brad Richards was really really really REALLY bad down the stretch and in the playoffs.
Brad Richards doesn't change Hagelin's ability level. He's got nearly 200 regular season games under his belt, and about 50 playoff games. In both he's about a .5PPG player. There's nothing wrong with that. He's a great player, but not a prolific, or consistently reliable scorer.

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07-17-2014, 03:37 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
His first stint in the NHL was 6 games. That's hardly the same thing as 55 games with little to no improvement in his own end. He was also proficient at the AHL level while Miller has left a lot to be desired there as well.

A lot can happen, but nothing I've seen from Miller has made me believe that there's a solid chance of him making that kind of leap.
Wasn't Miller a PPG player in the AHL?

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Old
07-17-2014, 03:42 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by jerseyjinx94 View Post
Wasn't Miller a PPG player in the AHL?
So?

He hasn't been able to produce at the NHL level offensively, and his work on the defensive side of the puck is in a much worse place.

And before I get accused of shaming Miller for the rest of his career, I think he could wind up being a good player. I dont think it will be next season -- and the reality of the situation is the Rangers will really need him to be one, next season.

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Old
07-17-2014, 03:45 PM
  #40
Trxjw
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Originally Posted by jerseyjinx94 View Post
Wasn't Miller a PPG player in the AHL?
I wasn't talking about his offensive abilities.

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07-17-2014, 03:45 PM
  #41
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if a prospect is traded it will be Miller.. He isn't a AV favorite and i am hearing they are down on him

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07-17-2014, 04:31 PM
  #42
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if a prospect is traded it will be Miller.. He isn't a AV favorite and i am hearing they are down on him
would be interesting hearing why. The kid did just turn 21 and seems to have improved at least offensively. Perhaps they're not happy with other areas of his development and he's more focused on points than points against?

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07-17-2014, 05:13 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
I think Miller is being severely underestimated here. PPG as a 21 year old in the AHL is pretty impressive. He's had some moments in New York. Perhaps if he isn't always on "audition" but has a position, his confidence will grow and he will find his niche. He has skills and some grit. He also has some work to do.
As i see it, its not a matter of underestimating him. Everyone acknowledges that he is a good AHL center, but some people cannot translate the play from the AHL to the NHL (or take more time to do so). Things he can get away with in the AHL will get the team horribly punished in the NHL (he has a *lot* of work to do defensively).

Its impossible to say when a player is ready though, one simply has to try them out. During camp this year, maybe everything just clicks for him, and he'll be an excellent addition to the team. On the other side of the coin, maybe he still cannot translate his game, and will need more time developing. Maybe he'll never be able to.

We'll find out, but hopefully he is ready come the season opener

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Old
07-18-2014, 01:30 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Placid View Post
As i see, it's not a matter of underestimating him. Everyone acknowledges that he is a good AHL center, but some people cannot translate the play from the AHL to the NHL (or take more time to do so). Things he can get away with in the AHL will get the team horribly punished in the NHL (he has a *lot* of work to do defensively).

Can you name a few players who scored ppg as a 20 year old in the AHL and were not small or slow who failed to make the NHL?

I am having a hard time coming up with one such player.

Defense is the easiest thing to teach. He will figure it out with time. His mistakes are typical 20 year old kid mistakes. He's not bad defensively, he's just a little boy learning to play hockey.

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07-18-2014, 03:48 AM
  #45
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Can you name a few players who scored ppg as a 20 year old in the AHL and were not small or slow who failed to make the NHL?

I am having a hard time coming up with one such player.
I dont know the AHL well enough to have heard about players who are promising but doesn't make it. But there must surely be some ?

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Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
Defense is the easiest thing to teach. He will figure it out with time. His mistakes are typical 20 year old kid mistakes. He's not bad defensively, he's just a little boy learning to play hockey.
Who in their right mind would send "a little boy" into the NHL ?

He is a kid, sure, and yes, he makes mistakes that kids make, that he will (hopefully) eliminate as a part of his continued development. And that is exactly my point. He is still developing, and he has some very rough edges still.

Do i hope that he is ready ? Of course i do.. because we desperately need him. I worry about how things turn out if he is not ready, and we still throw him out there because we dont have a backup plan.

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07-18-2014, 07:23 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
Can you name a few players who scored ppg as a 20 year old in the AHL and were not small or slow who failed to make the NHL?

I am having a hard time coming up with one such player.

Defense is the easiest thing to teach. He will figure it out with time. His mistakes are typical 20 year old kid mistakes. He's not bad defensively, he's just a little boy learning to play hockey.
I'm with you. Unfortunately I haven't seen Miller play a lot and can't comment on his attitude or overall game (which is what I assume management can), but here's a 20 year old in the AHL, and 20 years old is on the low side of age in that league, and he improves pretty markedly from 19 years old to 20 years old. He got in some NHL time and scored points (OK, it's not always about points, but it's not bad for a 19 year old to put up some points at the NHL level - it's a decent sign). If the kid works hard, has a good attitude and is improving, that's great. Doesn't make him an NHL starting forward this season, but if he keeps at it, he's a call-up at worst who may stick and should be an NHLer if he keeps working hard and improving.

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Old
07-18-2014, 07:51 AM
  #47
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I believe he wins the 3rd line center position in Camp and has a real nice year.

I am not going to put goals and assist predictions up but he will fill in quite well as the 3rd line center. Will be an upgrade due to his speed over Beaver.

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07-18-2014, 07:54 AM
  #48
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Agreed, with our current roster I think he wins the 3rd line center spot. Perhaps opening the season between Hags and shifting Lombardi to the wing.

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Old
07-18-2014, 08:20 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
I think Miller is being severely underestimated here. PPG as a 21 year old in the AHL is pretty impressive. He's had some moments in New York. Perhaps if he isn't always on "audition" but has a position, his confidence will grow and he will find his niche. He has skills and some grit. He also has some work to do.

The best hope for the 2014-15 Rangers is growth from within. Kreider, Zuccarello, Stepan, JMoore, Fast, Hagelin, Miller and others have plenty of room to develop their games much further. Coming off a Stanley Cup final season, these guys should be highly motivated to reach for another level in their careers.
I 100% agree. God forbid the kid shows he is only close to ready as a 21 year old.

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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
So?

He hasn't been able to produce at the NHL level offensively, and his work on the defensive side of the puck is in a much worse place.

And before I get accused of shaming Miller for the rest of his career, I think he could wind up being a good player. I dont think it will be next season -- and the reality of the situation is the Rangers will really need him to be one, next season.
Why? Lindberg is a year older, a more polished all-around player and could fill a 3c/4c role. I have no doubt. He can PK. He can win face-offs. Miller isn't the only option.

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07-18-2014, 08:25 AM
  #50
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Every team--not just the Rangers need young players to make their teams every single year. Teams that are at the cap ceiling or close to it need it--teams at the bottom of the standings need it. Every team needs young players to make it every single year.

So--JT Miller is No. 1 on our own prospect polls as voted by our own Rangers HF posters here--he won that easily. Brady Skjei is No. 2 and going back to college. JT Miller has two years pro experience and was a point per game player in the AHL last year for a team that had a lot of problems scoring at all. JT Miller has gotten a lot of time with the Rangers as well. He's accomplished a lot for a 20 year old.

You bet I expect him to make the team next year and I would think he expects to make the team too. Is he a finished prospect? How many 20 year olds are finished products? Sidney Crosby wasn't a finished product when he was a rookie either. Does he have defensive issues? Did Brad Richards (the guy he might be replacing) have defensive issues? You tell me. You try to correct the mistakes he makes.

As for his production---I remember watching Brandon Dubinsky--a player who Miller resembles--in his rookie year. Dubinsky had a difficult time putting up points. About midway through the year Tom Renney put Jaromir Jagr on his line and Dubinsky took off. Playing Miller with productive players should help him.

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