HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

J.T. Miller this season

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-18-2014, 08:51 AM
  #51
Dactyl*
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bofflol
Country: United States
Posts: 17,736
vCash: 500
Right now it really looks like we're banking on 2 of JT Fast and Lindberg to make the team as 3rd liners.

Dactyl* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2014, 10:31 AM
  #52
Mikos87
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,463
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dactyl View Post
Right now it really looks like we're banking on 2 of JT Fast and Lindberg to make the team as 3rd liners.
Yeah and there are some insurance policies in place in case they under perform. I think that 2 of them do make it.

Question remains if the Rangers go with Nash-MSL-Zucc down the right, or do they shift Nash to LW and let a kid step up into the top 9 on the 3rd line.

I wouldn't be surprised if Miller was traded to upgrade at center if Brass can't hack it as a top 6 and/or makes too much on his deal. But that is up to Miller to step up and prove that he belongs.

Mikos87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2014, 10:57 AM
  #53
Steve Kournianos
@thedraftanalyst
 
Steve Kournianos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 18,274
vCash: 500
Miller is going through what Kreider went through. Same friggin thing. Inconsistency. Poor decisions. Not burying chances. Bad penalties.

These guys are young. Miller was a bit of a gamble at 15th because his stock wasnt high until people saw him at the U18's.

People forget -- the Rangers are an established playoff team year in and year out. They rarely have open roster slots.

Hagelin was drafted in 2007 and didnt become an NHL regular until 2011-12. Kreider was drafted in 2009 and didnt become an NHL regular until 2013-14. Anisimov was drafted in 2006 and didnt become an NHL regular until 2009-10. Dubinsky 2004/2008, Callahan 2004/2008.

These guys were young and dumb and made a ton of mistakes early on, just like Miller.

Based on the scouts track record, especially with American forwards, there's no doubt that Miller will develop into a 2c/3c like we all thought he would the day he was drafted.

The question isnt whether Miller is good enough for the NHL. He is.

The question is he the Rangers best internal option for 3c or 4c. Is he ahead of Lindberg?

I think Miller will play at least 50 games this season. He just needs to control his emotions. The kid is still wild on the ice. You can fix that. His size, speed and skill will one day mesh.

A developed Miller and Kreider on the same line? Dangerous for other teams but make sure the penalty box doors are well oiled.

Steve Kournianos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2014, 11:00 AM
  #54
Dactyl*
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bofflol
Country: United States
Posts: 17,736
vCash: 500
Management thinks of Miller pretty highly, AV may not but Slats and Gorton definitely do. I don't think he gets traded. I think it's Miller and Fast who make it onto the 3rd line. Fast is a RW, no? I think Zucc of Nash will shift to the left. Hopefully Fast can come in and be another Hagelin. Idk if it will happen or not but I would love got Moore to kind of mentor Lindberg on the 4th line

Dactyl* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2014, 01:38 PM
  #55
mrmovies779
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 584
vCash: 500
Until he understands/learns how to become responsible defensively,its hard to say just how much he will play or produce with the big boys this year.

Predicting point toals at this point is premature,because if he continues to be a trainwreck in his own end,AV will not continue to throw him out there.

mrmovies779 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2014, 01:40 PM
  #56
n8
WAAAAAAA!!!
 
n8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: san francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 7,685
vCash: 500
Sather seemed to think JT would make the team at draft. Or maybe that was Gordie's interview...

n8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2014, 01:45 PM
  #57
Brian Boyle
ZibaneFAM
 
Brian Boyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Playing video games
Country: United States
Posts: 61,932
vCash: 50
I have a feeling he will be good. 35-45 points, while adding some TRUCULENCE down the middle, which would be ideal. The coaching staff needs to learn to live with the growing pains of his adjusting to playing center at the NHL level, though.

__________________
Brian Boyle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2014, 01:51 PM
  #58
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 17,989
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffMangum View Post
I have a feeling he will be good. 35-45 points, while adding some TRUCULENCE down the middle, which would be ideal. The coaching staff needs to learn to live with the growing pains of his adjusting to playing center at the NHL level, though.
AV's comments regarding Miller last season go beyond growing pains on the ice. There seems to be a maturity issue here.

As for your point as a whole, I disagree. AV's job is to win games, and win them now. Miller abandoning his defensive responsibilities, growing pains or not, will not stand for very long.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2014, 01:53 PM
  #59
Brian Boyle
ZibaneFAM
 
Brian Boyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Playing video games
Country: United States
Posts: 61,932
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
AV's comments regarding Miller last season go beyond growing pains on the ice. There seems to be a maturity issue here.

As for your point as a whole, I disagree. AV's job is to win games, and win them now. Miller abandoning his defensive responsibilities, growing pains or not, will not stand for very long.
If we had more cap space, I wouldn't disagree. As of this moment, though, I don't see any better options who provide the potential or talent that Miller does.

Brian Boyle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2014, 02:06 PM
  #60
GAGLine
HFBoards Sponsor
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 11,168
vCash: 500
If Miller hadn't played any games in the NHL, a lot of people would rate him higher. Rather than look at his age and his success in the AHL, they point to his lack of success in the NHL and write him off.

GAGLine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2014, 02:09 PM
  #61
silverfish
Bow ties are cool
 
silverfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Alphabet Soup
Country: United States
Posts: 24,280
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
If Miller hadn't played any games in the NHL, a lot of people would rate him higher. Rather than look at his age and his success in the AHL, they point to his lack of success in the NHL and write him off.
So it's a bad thing that we're looking at his play in the league he might be playing in this season, and rating him on that?

I've seen it all.

If JT Miller puts up 40 points this season, I will **** myself with joy. Hell, if he ever puts up 40 in his career I'll have some crow to eat. I think he's gonna go busto big time. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

silverfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2014, 02:21 PM
  #62
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 19,545
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
If Miller hadn't played any games in the NHL, a lot of people would rate him higher. Rather than look at his age and his success in the AHL, they point to his lack of success in the NHL and write him off.
Who exactly is "writing him off"? Though I imagine it's much easier to be bullish on a prospect when you ignore the negatives and only focus on the positives.

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2014, 02:23 PM
  #63
GAGLine
HFBoards Sponsor
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 11,168
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
So it's a bad thing that we're looking at his play in the league he might be playing in this season, and rating him on that?
It's a bad thing that people write him off because of it. They seem him play in the NHL and he doesn't put up numbers, and they think he sucks, will never amount to anything and is included in every trade proposal.

If he only played in the AHL, those same people would look at his AHL stats and think he's awesome and wonder why the hell he hasn't been called up.

GAGLine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2014, 02:27 PM
  #64
GAGLine
HFBoards Sponsor
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 11,168
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Who exactly is "writing him off"? Though I imagine it's much easier to be bullish on a prospect when you ignore the negatives and only focus on the positives.
All of the people who believe we absolutely have to sign a 3rd line center because Miller isn't the answer. All of the people who throw him into every trade proposal. If you want names and posts you can look them up yourself.

Who's ignoring the negatives? All I said was that a lot of people unfairly judge a 20 year old player because of his lack of success in the NHL, and the irony is that if he hadn't played in the NHL yet, those same people would rate him a lot higher.

GAGLine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2014, 02:28 PM
  #65
Radek27
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 5,755
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Radek27
I think he makes the team but struggles through October/November then is traded by December for another prospect

Radek27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2014, 02:31 PM
  #66
NickyFotiu
Registered User
 
NickyFotiu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,203
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffMangum View Post
I have a feeling he will be good. 35-45 points, while adding some TRUCULENCE down the middle, which would be ideal. The coaching staff needs to learn to live with the growing pains of his adjusting to playing center at the NHL level, though.

I think JT will be good as well. Hopefully it is next season. I would not be shocked if he is a 20 goal 45 point guy in this league at some point. Maybe more. I agree that the coaching staff and some fans need to show some patience if he has growing pains.

NickyFotiu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2014, 02:35 PM
  #67
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 19,545
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
All of the people who believe we absolutely have to sign a 3rd line center because Miller isn't the answer. All of the people who throw him into every trade proposal. If you want names and posts you can look them up yourself.
People want a 3rd line center in case Miller is not the answer, and there is nothing wrong with that at all. None of that translates to "writing him off" either.

Quote:
Who's ignoring the negatives? All I said was that a lot of people unfairly judge a 20 year old player because of his lack of success in the NHL, and the irony is that if he hadn't played in the NHL yet, those same people would rate him a lot higher.
How is judging his entire body of work being unfair in any capacity? We're evaluating him on his ability to be an NHLer, not be an elite AHLer. Thus far he's been below average at this level.

Why is it that whenever someone doesn't wax poetic about a prospect, they're suddenly being viewed as giving up on him?

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2014, 02:47 PM
  #68
Steve Kournianos
@thedraftanalyst
 
Steve Kournianos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 18,274
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
If Miller hadn't played any games in the NHL, a lot of people would rate him higher. Rather than look at his age and his success in the AHL, they point to his lack of success in the NHL and write him off.
Exactly. It always amazes me how people will elevate a guy if he's 40-40 in the minors but the second he struggles as a rookie in the NHL, he gets written off.

As a franchise, some fans have been spoiled with rookies making instant splashes and think it's the normal career trajectory.

It's not, especially when you're picking out of the top-10.

If McIlrath never played a game in the NHL, he would be penciled in. Apparently, just two games is enough to convince people he's a bust.

It's is very common to be good enough and get hurt or blocked or both.

Steve Kournianos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2014, 02:53 PM
  #69
GAGLine
HFBoards Sponsor
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 11,168
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
People want a 3rd line center in case Miller is not the answer, and there is nothing wrong with that at all. None of that translates to "writing him off" either.



How is judging his entire body of work being unfair in any capacity? We're evaluating him on his ability to be an NHLer, not be an elite AHLer. Thus far he's been below average at this level.

Why is it that whenever someone doesn't wax poetic about a prospect, they're suddenly being viewed as giving up on him?
What makes you think I was talking about you?

GAGLine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2014, 03:38 PM
  #70
silverfish
Bow ties are cool
 
silverfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Alphabet Soup
Country: United States
Posts: 24,280
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
It's a bad thing that people write him off because of it. They seem him play in the NHL and he doesn't put up numbers, and they think he sucks, will never amount to anything and is included in every trade proposal.

If he only played in the AHL, those same people would look at his AHL stats and think he's awesome and wonder why the hell he hasn't been called up.
Or, we watch the 56 regular season games he's played and remember all the idiotic plays he has made. Cool, he has speed. Cool, he has size. If he put it together yet, he'd have been with the team longer than he has been, and we wouldn't be talking about a hole at 3C. I'm not expecting the world from a 21 year old, but forgive me for thinking he has to EARN that spot, and we could surely do better at 3C this season than JT. He hasn't earned **** from me yet.

Fact is, AV has gone on record about Miller's maturity level. Miller didn't come to camp early with the rest of his teammates last year, I'm sure AV didn't love that. He's not a smart player. Not yet. Will he ever be? I don't know.

Right now, Miller is a one-zone player; and he has very limited success to show off in that zone at the NHL level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Who exactly is "writing him off"? Though I imagine it's much easier to be bullish on a prospect when you ignore the negatives and only focus on the positives.
I am. No shame. I want to be pleasantly surprised instead of brutally devastated.

silverfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2014, 03:47 PM
  #71
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 17,989
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
People want a 3rd line center in case Miller is not the answer, and there is nothing wrong with that at all. None of that translates to "writing him off" either.



How is judging his entire body of work being unfair in any capacity? We're evaluating him on his ability to be an NHLer, not be an elite AHLer. Thus far he's been below average at this level.

Why is it that whenever someone doesn't wax poetic about a prospect, they're suddenly being viewed as giving up on him?
Because extremism is an epidemic not only on this board, but everywhere.

If it comes to "writing off" JT Miller, I suppose I am when it comes to thinking of him as a viable option to hand the 3C spot to to start next season. Down the road, I think he'll be a solid player.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2014, 03:48 PM
  #72
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 17,989
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
Or, we watch the 56 regular season games he's played and remember all the idiotic plays he has made. Cool, he has speed. Cool, he has size. If he put it together yet, he'd have been with the team longer than he has been, and we wouldn't be talking about a hole at 3C. I'm not expecting the world from a 21 year old, but forgive me for thinking he has to EARN that spot, and we could surely do better at 3C this season than JT. He hasn't earned **** from me yet.

Fact is, AV has gone on record about Miller's maturity level. Miller didn't come to camp early with the rest of his teammates last year, I'm sure AV didn't love that. He's not a smart player. Not yet. Will he ever be? I don't know.

Right now, Miller is a one-zone player; and he has very limited success to show off in that zone at the NHL level.



I am. No shame. I want to be pleasantly surprised instead of brutally devastated.
With all the prospects I've seen you pump the tires on, Im surprised JT Miller is the one you think will bust.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2014, 03:51 PM
  #73
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 17,989
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Exactly. It always amazes me how people will elevate a guy if he's 40-40 in the minors but the second he struggles as a rookie in the NHL, he gets written off.

As a franchise, some fans have been spoiled with rookies making instant splashes and think it's the normal career trajectory.

It's not, especially when you're picking out of the top-10.

If McIlrath never played a game in the NHL, he would be penciled in. Apparently, just two games is enough to convince people he's a bust.

It's is very common to be good enough and get hurt or blocked or both.
Its also very common to make **** up as you've done here -- particularly by making the stupid and absurdly long leap that criticizing a prospect = he's a bust.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2014, 03:58 PM
  #74
silverfish
Bow ties are cool
 
silverfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Alphabet Soup
Country: United States
Posts: 24,280
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
With all the prospects I've seen you pump the tires on, Im surprised JT Miller is the one you think will bust.
I'm not an expert. I'm not a scout. I'm just a fan who thinks he knows the game of hockey.

Whatever it is people think JT Miller has, I just don't see it. I don't think he has nearly the game Dubinsky has. I think at best he'll be a less offensive version of Callahan with limited intangibles. He's not a leader. He doesn't have the IQ to kill penalties. He's got speed and grit. That's what I've seen from JT so far.

The only other prospects I can remember pumping the tires on HFNYR about recently are Fogarty, who I do think has a shot at being an average to good NHL 4th liner. Jake McCabe in Buffalo, who I think is going to do some great things in the NHL. Who am I missing? I don't mean that negatively, I'd love to be able to expand on my views I just can't remember who else I've been pumping!

(This doesn't read as super defensive, right? I don't mean it that way! )

silverfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2014, 04:07 PM
  #75
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,481
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
I'm not an expert. I'm not a scout. I'm just a fan who thinks he knows the game of hockey.

Whatever it is people think JT Miller has, I just don't see it. I don't think he has nearly the game Dubinsky has. I think at best he'll be a less offensive version of Callahan with limited intangibles. He's not a leader. He doesn't have the IQ to kill penalties. He's got speed and grit. That's what I've seen from JT so far.

The only other prospects I can remember pumping the tires on HFNYR about recently are Fogarty, who I do think has a shot at being an average to good NHL 4th liner. Jake McCabe in Buffalo, who I think is going to do some great things in the NHL. Who am I missing? I don't mean that negatively, I'd love to be able to expand on my views I just can't remember who else I've been pumping!

(This doesn't read as super defensive, right? I don't mean it that way! )
I understand that AHL scoring doesn't mean success at the NHL level, but at the same age Miller's AHL production was quite better than Dubi's, as was his NHL production. I understand production isn't the only measure, but perhaps Miller is more advance in one area (offense) and less advanced in other areas (hockey IQ, defense) than Dubi and all the kid needs to do is continue to play in the AHL and show he's improving in those areas. Further, on the production side, he improved year over year, which is nice. I too ain't an expert. Heck, I haven't seen him in an AHL game, and it's really tough to judge some kids at 20 years old at the AHL level. Some are just elite talents. Some mature faster. Some play it safe. It looks, on paper, that he's progressing nicely. I think this is an important year for him to better show what type of player he can be.

Fletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:43 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2016 All Rights Reserved.