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Peter Forsberg: The Reality in Contrast With The Imagined, Romanticized Version.

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Old
07-20-2014, 03:07 AM
  #51
JetsAlternate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard F Schiller View Post
Pretty much my feelings on this as well. As much as JetsAlternate tries to "de-romanticize" Forsberg in this thread, he does the exact opposite (and to a greater magnitude) with Pavel Bure in multiple threads I've seen over the years.
What I seek to provide is a more well-rounded understanding of players. My course of action with Bure has been to denounce claims of him being a "one-dimensional, lazy cherry picker."

I have hoped, with the work I have done over the past few years, that I have changed the minds of many people here. I still have yet to finish pursuing that topic. Recent depictions of Forsberg, on the other hand, suffer from an exaggeration of his abilities to assume, for instance, his defense was on par with the Selke-winning defensive elite of the NHL. Some users here have discussed the hyperbolic terms used to describe Forsberg.

My objective is to uncover truths and provide information that might have been forgotten in order to build a more accurate profile of these players.

I don't think I've done an insufficient job. Many of the opinions in this thread match what I have aimed for in regards to Forsberg.
Quote:
Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
Actually, the original quotation I'm referring to read: "There were few to no claims from anyone that Forsberg was "the best player in the world" prior to 2003."

Which is why the bottom of your post says: "Last edited by JetsAlternate: Today at 03:41 AM."

You edited it.

I can give you a screenshot of the original if you like. Google cached it.

So did you really just edit your text and try to pass off your new text as the original because of how poorly received it was?

Wow.
I don't think I ever wavered in the spirit of that statement, although that was a very early revision of the post that you have saved. I frequently do revisions to my work, sometimes to add evidence or change the wording of my posts. The thread was incomplete at that point, and some things I had not phrased as well as I had wished -- I made the necessary corrections.


Last edited by JetsAlternate: 07-20-2014 at 03:27 AM.
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Old
07-20-2014, 03:13 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetsAlternate View Post
What I seek to provide is a more well-rounded understanding of players. My course of action with Bure has been to denounce claims of him being a "one-dimensional, lazy cherry picker."

I have hoped, with the work I have done over the past few years, that I have changed the minds of many people here. I still have yet to finish pursuing that topic. Recent depictions of Forsberg, on the other hand, suffer from an exaggeration of his abilities to assume, for instance, his defense was on par with the Selke-winning defensive elite of the NHL.

My objective is to uncover truths and provide information that might have been forgotten in order to build a more accurate profile of these players.

I don't think I've done an insufficient job. Many of the opinions in this thread match what I have aimed for in regards to Forsberg.
Then why did you rephrase one of your claims to which people have responded and then accuse them of not providing a satisfactory counterpoint?

That hardly seems truthful.

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07-20-2014, 03:21 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetsAlternate View Post
What I seek to provide is a more well-rounded understanding of players. My course of action with Bure has been to denounce claims of him being a "one-dimensional, lazy cherry picker."

I have hoped, with the work I have done over the past few years, that I have changed the minds of many people here. I still have yet to finish pursuing that topic. Recent depictions of Forsberg, on the other hand, suffer from an exaggeration of his abilities to assume, for instance, his defense was on par with the Selke-winning defensive elite of the NHL.

My objective is to uncover truths and provide information that might have been forgotten in order to build a more accurate profile of these players.

I don't think I've done an insufficient job. Many of the opinions in this thread match what I have aimed for in regards to Forsberg.



I don't think I ever wavered in the spirit of that statement, although that was a very early revision of the post that you have saved. I frequently do revisions to my work, sometimes to add evidence or change the wording of my posts. The thread was incomplete at that point, and some things I had not phrased as well as I had wished -- I made the necessary corrections.
There is no misconceptions about Forsberg. Most people here thinks he was an elite player who battled a lot of injuries. Some say he was, at his best, better than Jagr some say he wasn't. I get the feeling that this whole thread is just an elaborate trolling attempt to stir the pot.

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07-20-2014, 03:21 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
Then why did you rephrase one of your claims to which people have responded and then accuse them of not providing a satisfactory counterpoint?

That hardly seems truthful.
I see where you're coming from. Post #9 assumes, however, that you were suggesting a very significant percentage of hockey people believed Forsberg to be the best player in the league. My response included the statement that it would only have been a minority prior to 2003. As I've said, my intent with that statement has not wavered. My objective with the sentence was to describe Forsberg as having been the "best player in the world" at the time only to a minority prior to his success in 2003.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...37&postcount=9
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetsAlternate View Post
There are some questionable quotations in there, unless the opinions of these people shift on a day-to-day basis. They don't particularly make a lot of sense either.

Mario Lemieux did not retire until the end of the 1995-96 season; he scored 161 points in 1995-96, and 122 points in 1996-97. Eric Lindros, meanwhile, was crowned by some as well. Jaromir Jagr was not far behind. Your quotations have, as early as the start of the 1996-97 season, individuals claiming Forsberg to be the best player in the world.


Did Mike Milbury actually say Peter Forsberg was better than Mario Lemieux in 1996, and do you believe that statement? Lemieux scored 161 points.

The fluidity of the title later on is highlighted by certain oddities as well. There are many publications in existence citing Jaromir Jagr as the best player in the world at the turn of the century. Those who chose Forsberg instead seem to have been in the minority, and many of your quotations actually refer to Sakic instead as the best player in the world. Some of your quotations are manipulated to seem as though they are stating something else; for example, the Detroit News, May 2000 excerpt states "Forsberg is the best player on the ice, whether the game is played at the Pepsi Center or Joe Louis Arena", but the scope due to the specification of the arenas is limited to the Red Wings and Avalanche rosters.

Ken Hitchcock, notably, is one individual cited in your quotations. In March 1999, he states in regards to Jaromir Jagr:

Jagr ran away with the point scoring that year, scoring 127 points.

They aren't attacking the argument as much as they may be discussing the frequency in which Forsberg's abilities as a hockey player are exaggerated. Forsberg was not on a higher level than his peers; that is the conclusion, so I assume you disagree with it.
Quote:
Last edited by JetsAlternate; Yesterday at 06:33 AM..
I did, however, question the validity of a few of them, namely the Hitchcock one. Perhaps Hitchcock is at fault for changing his mind. If this post offended you, I apologize.

You did catch me at 6:00 AM working on this thread. It was an early revision of this thread that you caught me working on.

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07-20-2014, 03:32 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
There is no misconceptions about Forsberg. Most people here thinks he was an elite player who battled a lot of injuries. Some say he was, at his best, better than Jagr some say he wasn't. I get the feeling that this whole thread is just an elaborate trolling attempt to stir the pot.
Not at all. Forsberg is overrated on this forum. There was a recent poll (April 2014) in regards to Messier vs Forsberg. I think the clear choice is Messier, although some, including Fred Taylor, chose Forsberg.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1640879&page=2

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...21&postcount=2
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
Crazy amount of Forsberg threads popping up.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...3&postcount=45
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
I know it does. That is due to Messier being underrated and Forsberg (especially playoff Foppa) gets overrated here.

I believe that everyone who does the research properly for these two, will pick Messier over Forsberg.

That is not a slight on Foppa. Who is an all-time great. But Messier has more than twice the amount of great runs than Forsberg.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...9&postcount=48
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Yeah, I agree. Forsberg was an all-time great playoff performer, but this is Mark Messier we're talking about. I mean, I certainly see the case for Gretzky winning Messier's Smythe in 1984. But I also see the case for Messier winning the 1990 Smythe, and his performance in 1994 was better than most Smythe winners, but Leetch just went crazy that year. Messier is one of the few players in history whose points-per-game numbers actually go up in the playoffs, and this would have been true even if he had retired in 1997.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...3&postcount=37
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Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
I like both, but come on. It's Messier.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...3&postcount=20
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbonenc* View Post
The fact that Messier isn't winning this by a landslide is a testimonial to the state of this forum.
Forsberg actually leads Messier 57-54 in that poll currently.




http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...5&postcount=29
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadaR90 View Post
Forsberg. Simply because in a one on one series I can see forsberg taking messier to the ropes in a game 7 and beating him. Foppa was a force like nobody else in the playoffs. Just so possessed to do every single thing 150 percent. I'd take him over anyone other than Lemieux and gretzky. Period.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...19&postcount=9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kresnik View Post
Give me Forsberg thanks... Oh ye, i don't know much about Messier but i doubt i would want him ahead of Forsberg still.


Last edited by JetsAlternate: 07-20-2014 at 03:42 AM.
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07-20-2014, 03:38 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by JetsAlternate View Post
Not at all. Forsberg is overrated on this forum. There was a recent poll in regards to Messier vs Forsberg. I think the clear choice is Messier, although some, including Fred Taylor, chose Forsberg.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1640879&page=2




http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...3&postcount=45


http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...9&postcount=48
You are basing this on a poll? Look at the names voting in that poll and you see that 99% of them are not regular posters in the HoH section and even if there were posters here believing Forsberg to be better than Messier, what of it? Is this such an atrocity that it requires an entire thread to berate one player? There are several other players who gets more romanticized than Forsberg (Lindros, Blake and Pronger comes to mind) so why not start there instead?

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07-20-2014, 03:41 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetsAlternate View Post
I don't think I ever wavered in the spirit of that statement, although that was a very early revision of the post that you have saved. I frequently do revisions to my work, sometimes to add evidence or change the wording of my posts. The thread was incomplete at that point, and some things I had not phrased as well as I had wished -- I made the necessary corrections.
And then you proceeded to lecture me on your "original quotation."

I accept your apology, JetsAlternate, but I do question your reasoning behind editing the part of an assertion that is actively being contended in the thread without telling us that you've changed your mind. There's nothing wrong with changing your mind (Ken Hitchcock sure did after he coached against Forsberg in May 1999 after previously saying Jagr was the best in March 1999), but if you're going to come back at me like I didn't establish anything with 13 citations of Forsberg being called the best player in the world from 1996-2002 because it is only a minority opinion, then you should have made damn sure that you never said "few to no claims." Thirteen is a baker's dozen of claims. Minority, sure, but it's not FEW and it's not NONE.

You're a smart guy. I like your posts about Bure. I just didn't think this was handled well, from the original post all the way down to the edits. Even that quote of me in the Forsberg/Messier thread is out of context, because two posts later, I say that I misread the poll (it was about a single playoff series - not a career). I don't know that I'll be reading your next thesis.

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Old
07-20-2014, 03:54 AM
  #58
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btw just fyi, it's forsberg's bday today.

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07-20-2014, 03:54 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
You are basing this on a poll? Look at the names voting in that poll and you see that 99% of them are not regular posters in the HoH section and even if there were posters here believing Forsberg to be better than Messier, what of it? Is this such an atrocity that it requires an entire thread to berate one player? There are several other players who gets more romanticized than Forsberg (Lindros, Blake and Pronger comes to mind) so why not start there instead?
This thread is not based on that one example. That is merely on example of the way Forsberg's game and status in the history of hockey has been elevated to the point of no longer accurately representing him.

The purpose of this thread is not to berate the player; in fact, as I have said multiple times, it is a counterpoint to the well-documented, popular beliefs about this player. It is an analysis of where he stood among his peers during his prime.

Why Forsberg and not somebody else? He just happened to be the first name to come to mind, and currently there is a thread about Forsberg in the main section; I thought I should explore the topic. There is no methodology or any particular order to my choices of which players to research.

I initially intended to do full analyses of several players. I had begun that general project when I released my Alexander Mogilny analysis, but I haven't revisited it as of yet.

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07-20-2014, 03:58 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by JetsAlternate View Post
This thread is not based on that one example. That is merely on example of the way Forsberg's game and status in the history of hockey has been elevated to the point of no longer accurately representing him.

The purpose of this thread is not to berate the player; in fact, as I have said multiple times, it is a counterpoint to the well-documented, popular beliefs about this player. It is an analysis of where he stood among his peers during his prime.

Why Forsberg and not somebody else? He just happened to be the first name to come to mind, and currently there is a thread about Forsberg in the main section; I thought I should explore the topic. There is no methodology or any particular order to my choices of which players to research.

I initially intended to do full analyses of several players. I had begun that general project when I released my Alexander Mogilny analysis, but I haven't revisited it as of yet.
Well since you keep using quotes out of context and misrepresent what others have said I'm like quoipourquoi is also done with this thread. This is like my grandson wrote, pseudo-science.

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07-20-2014, 04:11 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
You're a smart guy. I like your posts about Bure. I just didn't think this was handled well, from the original post all the way down to the edits. Even that quote of me in the Forsberg/Messier thread is out of context, because two posts later, I say that I misread the poll (it was about a single playoff series - not a career). I don't know that I'll be reading your next thesis.
The thread was treated very much like a career vs career (or playoff ability vs playoff ability) debate. I don't think your original statement was far off at all, and I used your quotation in the context of comparing Forsberg to Messier in that sense. I missed the post below that (an honest mistake, but still valid I believe).
Quote:
Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
And then you proceeded to lecture me on your "original quotation."

I accept your apology, JetsAlternate, but I do question your reasoning behind editing the part of an assertion that is actively being contended in the thread without telling us that you've changed your mind. There's nothing wrong with changing your mind (Ken Hitchcock sure did after he coached against Forsberg in May 1999 after previously saying Jagr was the best in March 1999), but if you're going to come back at me like I didn't establish anything with 13 citations of Forsberg being called the best player in the world from 1996-2002 because it is only a minority opinion, then you should have made damn sure that you never said "few to no claims." Thirteen is a baker's dozen of claims. Minority, sure, but it's not FEW and it's not NONE.
Thirteen is certainly few when the opinions of the majority are concerned; your original post probably does not bode too well, however, in relation to the revised version of my OP. I see the problem. That is my fault. That wasn't a very wise thing to do on my part.

I believe the OP's premise still stands, and the majority of the discussion has gone well. The objective, as has been discussed before, is to gauge Forsberg in relation to his peers. As much has been discussed in hyperbolic terms about his abilities as a player, this thread is designed to supplement that material. I assumed in this thread's development that people reading were aware of that version of Forsberg already and thus I rounded it out with another understanding of the player to give us a broader, more accurate sense of him.


Last edited by JetsAlternate: 07-20-2014 at 04:37 AM.
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07-20-2014, 06:14 AM
  #62
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BTW here's the Forsberg injury versus Edmonton referred to:



In the 1999 Dallas series Richard Matvichuk inured Forsberg tossing him head first into the boards (and Hejduk too with a check from behind).

I don't know how you can use that kind of stuff AGAINST Peter.

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07-20-2014, 06:36 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Hasbro View Post
BTW here's the Forsberg injury versus Edmonton referred to:



In the 1999 Dallas series Richard Matvichuk inured Forsberg tossing him head first into the boards (and Hejduk too with a check from behind).

I don't know how you can use that kind of stuff AGAINST Peter.
that's the thing with Forsberg though. The guy was great in the playoffs despite always playing injured.

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07-20-2014, 08:34 AM
  #64
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For a player that could dominate the game like no one outside of Gretkzy and Lemieux, he has 1 scoring title.

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07-20-2014, 09:02 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by JetsAlternate View Post
That's a strange choice. Stevens played between 1982 and 2004. Is he forgetting Gretzky and Lemieux? What is your source for that quotation?
Not to mention that Forsberg didn't play against Stevens that often being in different Conferences.

There are many articles dating to 1998 (the 1st round playoff matchup between the Devils and Penguins) where Scott Stevens called Jagr the best player in the world and how shutting him down would not be possible but rather if you can contain him to 1 or 2 points that you've done your job.

Here is the thing, Forsberg was very strong and great at puck possession but Jagr was a slight bit better in that regard and had about a 3 inch and 20 lbs advantage on him.

Jagr was as equally gifted as Forsberg was at setting players up but Jagr was a far superior player to Forsberg in goals scoring and a much better offensive player overall.

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07-20-2014, 09:10 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by SidGenoMario View Post
For a player that could dominate the game like no one outside of Gretkzy and Lemieux, he has 1 scoring title.
Thats exactly what hes criticized for. Being injured so much that he never could challenge for the scoring title. What we can say is that at his worst Forsberg was 12th in PPG but usually he was either leading the league or in the top-3.

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07-20-2014, 09:16 AM
  #67
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that's the thing with Forsberg though. The guy was great in the playoffs despite always playing injured.
I understand that he was great in the playoffs but people seem to forget that he was playing behind Sakic in the lineup and had the novelty of playing against less coverage than Jagr had to face in comparison.

The Lemieux-less Jagr led teams were a collection of players who were nowhere close to the player Jagr was so teams had it easy by simply putting all their best defenders and shut down forwards against him.

Here are some quotes that also suggest that Jagr was "widely" considered the best player in the world.

Quote:
Michael Farber, SI, 1999:

Last month Chicago Blackhawks assistant coach Denis Savard proclaimed Jagr "the best player in the game by a million miles," as if the subject were as closed as a team meeting.

...

"Jaromir should get a cut of every contract of everyone who plays with him before signing a new deal because half the money they're getting is due to him," Constantine says, despite his occasional differences with his star. "He makes it tricky for this organization. We have to ask oursast month Chicago Blackhawks assistant coachelves how good the guy is. Is he good because he plays with Jagr? Not taking anything anyway from Marty Straka, who's a helluva player, but none of the guys Jaromir plays with have a time-tested history of being major talents." There is no one riding shotgun for Jagr the way Joe Sakic does for Forsberg, John LeClair does for Lindros or Selanne does for Kariya. Pittsburgh has several forwards with a clue, but it also has more extras than there were in Titanic.

...

"There are probably four ways to play Jagr, all of them wrong," Montreal assistant coach Dave King says. "He's the toughest player in hockey to devise a game plan against."

Michael Farber, SI, 2000:

Quote:
With 32 goals and 39 assists in 39 games through Sunday, Jagr was close to a 150-point pace and was leading the league in both categories, something not achieved outright since Wayne Gretzky did it 13 years ago. Night after night Jagr finds not only open ice but also the inherent joy of his sport. He dances and dazzles, getting seven points against the hapless New York Islanders in one game, derailing the powerful Detroit Red Wings with a goal and an assist in the next, and, in the match after that, twisting New Jersey Devils checker Claude Lemieux into a pretzel by putting the puck through Lemieux's legs at the Penguins' blue line and creating a three-on-two. Jagr, with sturdy haunches that make him all but impossible to bump off the puck, puts on That '80s Show for almost 82 games a season. He's setting hockey back more than 10 years.

"The game in the 1980s was played with the puck," Toronto Maple Leafs goalie Glenn Healy says. "In the '90s it became a game of often willingly losing possession, of dumping the puck in and moving the battle to other areas, such as behind the net and in the corners. Jagr is an '80s player because he holds on to the puck and tries to make plays. He won't give it up until there is absolutely no other play, which isn't often, because he has the ability to make something out of nothing, even a one-on-three. As a goalie you're always aware of Jagr's presence on the ice."

Jagr's scoring rampage in an era of constipated hockey has ended debate about who is the NHL's best player. "With no disrespect to the other guys," says New Jersey defenseman Ken Daneyko, a 15-year veteran, "you've got [Eric] Lindros, [Paul] Kariya, [Teemu] Selanne and [Peter] Forsberg here, and Jagr head and shoulders above them, up there." That assessment was implicitly endorsed by Gretzky last April when he blessed Jagr with a private word during the Great One's retirement ceremony. "Maybe that's why I play good right now," Jagr said last week, his face crinkling in merriment as he sat at his locker. "I don't want to make Wayne a liar."

Kostya Kennedy, SI, 2000:
Quote:
When SI asked NHL coaches in September, "Who is the best all-around player in the world?" 19 of the 26 respondents named Penguins right wing Jaromir Jagr. The other seven coaches fell into one of those hard-to-figure minorities, like the one dentist in five who does not recommend sugarless gum for his patients who chew gum.
The few times Jagr had Lemieux to help him take the pressure off and opening the ice for him, he put up 149 Pts (Forsberg had 116 Pts and he is only 1 year younger), 95 Pts in 63 games (started the season on a 130 + Pts pace before injuries derailed the remainder of his season) and 121 Pts.

Even if Forsberg was considered the 2nd best player in the NHL (a big if) he was still very far behind Jagr.

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07-20-2014, 09:18 AM
  #68
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Thats exactly what hes criticized for. Being injured so much that he never could challenge for the scoring title. What we can say is that at his worst Forsberg was 12th in PPG but usually he was either leading the league or in the top-3.
Forsberg only led the NHL in PPG twice, those seasons being 2002-03 and 2003-04, at the time Lemieux was old and near done and Jagr was playing disinterested hockey.

On most occasions, Jagr blew Forsberg right out of the water in PPG.

Forsberg has been 1st in PPG twice, once he was 3rd (not "usually" top 3 the way you mentioned it), he was 6th three times, once he was 9th, once he was 13th (not as low as 12th but lower) and once he was 37th (in comparison Jagr was 11th that season which was 2006-07).


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07-20-2014, 09:36 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Hasbro View Post
BTW here's the Forsberg injury versus Edmonton referred to:



In the 1999 Dallas series Richard Matvichuk inured Forsberg tossing him head first into the boards (and Hejduk too with a check from behind).

I don't know how you can use that kind of stuff AGAINST Peter.
Well, people hold Lindros' injuries against him because of his playing style. Forsberg liked to play a dirty, chippy style of hockey. When you do that, its no suprise if people come back at you in that same manner.

Far from his injuries being held against, I see a lot more of him getting a pass from posters because of the clutch-and-grab era that he played in.

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07-20-2014, 09:41 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by JetsAlternate View Post
Yeah and there's already been two posters in this thread that listed Forsberg ahead of Messier. One of them had him ahead of Clarke, too.

OK, Im back on your side. He is definitely still overrated. (Bure was still a cherrypicker, though)

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07-20-2014, 10:04 AM
  #71
TheMoreYouKnow
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The fact this thread has three pages in a day or two shows it's still timely. I mean people who overrate him won't admit to overrating him but I'd say if someone puts him in the top 10-15 all-time category they probably are overrating him.

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07-20-2014, 10:26 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by livewell68 View Post
Forsberg only led the NHL in PPG twice, those seasons being 2002-03 and 2003-04, at the time Lemieux was old and near done and Jagr was playing disinterested hockey.

On most occasions, Jagr blew Forsberg right out of the water in PPG.

Forsberg has been 1st in PPG twice, once he was 3rd (not "usually" top 3 the way you mentioned it), he was 6th three times, once he was 9th, once he was 13th (not as low as 12th but lower) and once he was 37th (in comparison Jagr was 11th that season which was 2006-07).
When he was 13th he was actually 12th shared with 2 or 3 others iirc and way to go and compare Forsbergs worst season where he barely played to a healthy Jagr should we compare them in 04 when Forsberg were the best in PPG and Jagr were 16th and didnt provide anything for his team except sulking and whining? Not to mention the area where Forsberg excelled (the playoffs) where he has a 1.13 in 151 games and Jagr 0,98 in 202 games.

Im not even claiming Forsberg is better than Jagr. I dont really know what u are arguing for?

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07-20-2014, 11:03 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Hobnobs View Post
When he was 13th he was actually 12th shared with 2 or 3 others iirc and way to go and compare Forsbergs worst season where he barely played to a healthy Jagr should we compare them in 04 when Forsberg were the best in PPG and Jagr were 16th and didnt provide anything for his team except sulking and whining? Not to mention the area where Forsberg excelled (the playoffs) where he has a 1.13 in 151 games and Jagr 0,98 in 202 games.

Im not even claiming Forsberg is better than Jagr. I dont really know what u are arguing for?
Looks to me like he's responding to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobnobs View Post
Thats exactly what hes criticized for. Being injured so much that he never could challenge for the scoring title. What we can say is that at his worst Forsberg was 12th in PPG but usually he was either leading the league or in the top-3.
It also looks to me like he was absolutely correct.

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07-20-2014, 11:44 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledGoat View Post
Looks to me like he's responding to this:



It also looks to me like he was absolutely correct.
No he just found another instance when Forsberg were 6th in PPG which stil is at the top.

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07-20-2014, 11:59 AM
  #75
DisgruntledGoat
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Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
No he just found another instance when Forsberg were 6th in PPG which stil is at the top.
I don't know what you're trying to say here?

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