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Bad Captains?

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Old
10-02-2003, 09:23 AM
  #1
4thLineGoon
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Bad Captains?

The "leadership" thread got me thinking about team captains. I've seen people laud players like Yzerman and Koivu for being great captains, but can anyone name some bad ones? Guys on teams, past or present, that you don't think had any business wearing the 'A' or the 'C.'

It should be interesting to see what certain fans think, like I'm sure Isles fans and Sabres fans might have differing opinions on Mike Peca.

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10-02-2003, 09:27 AM
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Lindros would have been better served wearing an "A" instead of the "C" while in Philly.

Brian Leetch seems to be much more comfortable wearing an "A" than the "C" when Messier was gone.

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10-02-2003, 09:32 AM
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Ahab, he was a terrible captain! Rode that whale pretty good though.

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Old
10-02-2003, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thLineGoon
The "leadership" thread got me thinking about team captains. I've seen people laud players like Yzerman and Koivu for being great captains, but can anyone name some bad ones? Guys on teams, past or present, that you don't think had any business wearing the 'A' or the 'C.'

It should be interesting to see what certain fans think, like I'm sure Isles fans and Sabres fans might have differing opinions on Mike Peca.
JAGR

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Old
10-02-2003, 09:39 AM
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Yashin in Ottawa is a good example of a bad captain.

However, I think the challenge is to find the current examples. Which current captains would better serve their team by handing the "C" to someone else.

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10-02-2003, 10:10 AM
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Snap Wilson
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How do you spell bad captain? K-A-R-I-Y-A

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Old
10-02-2003, 10:11 AM
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BruinsGirl
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I won't say he is bad ...but "C" is a little bit premature.

I am talking about Joe Thornton.

On the other hand we didn't have clear leader....

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10-02-2003, 10:16 AM
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4thLineGoon
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A lot of teams seem to give the C (or A) to the best players on the team. Is this a good idea, as other players might follow the lead of the most successful players, or a bad idea, as a guy who has to work harder and play in a team structure might be a better role model?

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10-02-2003, 10:26 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
Poor Anaheim fans, going to cry for the rest of your lives.

Kariya was a humble and respectful leader for 8 + years.
Cry? No, we're pretty happy with what we have now, actually. A real star and a real captain.

Humble? Uh, sure. Respectful? Okay. Leader? Hah. True leaders don't need to be called out by teammates going in to Game Seven of the Cup Finals. Cardboard cutouts have shown more sincerity and conviction than Captain Cherrypicker. Even if we didn't acquire Fedorov (who isn't any better C material, quite frankly), I'm frankly happy to be rid of Paul. He's all yours, Avs, for one year at least before he bolts the NHLPA to go play in Finland. I hope Joe doesn't get hurt going into the corners to retrieve the puck, since he's the only one on that line who's going to do so.

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Old
10-02-2003, 10:28 AM
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Big McLargehuge
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*ahem*

Jaromir Jagr.

He's no longer a captain, but while Lemieux was gone in Pittsburgh somehow he was our captain.

He has about as much leadership as a fish stick.

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Old
10-02-2003, 10:33 AM
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discostu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thLineGoon
A lot of teams seem to give the C (or A) to the best players on the team. Is this a good idea, as other players might follow the lead of the most successful players, or a bad idea, as a guy who has to work harder and play in a team structure might be a better role model?
In Ottawa, we had a stretch with two extreme examples.

At one point, Randy Cunneyworth was our captain. At the time he was appointed, he was a regular 2nd/3rd line player for the team. He was a leadership type guy, who had the respect of his peers, stood up in the dressing room, yada, yada, yada. After about a year or so, his play started to decline. He was now seeing fourth line duty, and was going to be scratched on several occassions, but they didn't want to scratch the captain.

The next year, they appointed a new captain. At that point, Yashin was coming into his own as the best offensive player that this team had, and management wanted to give him the "C", so that he could develop the leadership style. Giving the "C" to your best player seemed like a smart thing to do, as it avoids the whole Cunneyworth controversy. Well, Yashin, for obvious reasons, didn't make the best captain out there. He wasn't a very vocal guy in the dressing room, and didn't demonstrate a lot of passion on the ice. His repeated playoff disappearances didn't help his case either. His holdout opened the door for Alfie to get the captaincy, who has been a much better captain, since he has the respect of the team, and is one of the best players on the team.

So to answer your question, the captain must always be a leader before he gets the "C". Trying to build a captain will only lead to disaster, I'm afraid. I think the best candidates for captaincy are usually defencemen. They log more ice team than the premier forwards, giving them more opportunity to dispute calls with the ref. In Ottawa, if Alfie leaves this year, I would like to see Redden given the captaincy, as he seems to have the balance. He's our best defencemen, and appears to be a real leader of the team.

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10-02-2003, 10:34 AM
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Mats Sundin

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Old
10-02-2003, 10:53 AM
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Evilo
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Don't agree with Jagr.
You don't have to be vocal to lead.
He did a good job when captain of the team.
Only when Mario returned did he whine...

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Old
10-02-2003, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
Poor Anaheim fans, going to cry for the rest of your lives.

Kariya was a humble and respectful leader for 8 + years.
Why does everything you post need to have an incendiary or demeaning slant to it? I'm getting tired of your antics.

S L

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Old
10-02-2003, 11:36 AM
  #15
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Maybe not a bad captain, but there are other guys on the Canucks that show more heart than Naslund.

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10-02-2003, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmad
Mats Sundin
When Sundin was first named Leaf captain like 7 years ago, I thought it was a bad call. However Sundin finally stepped up his physical game about 4 years ago and is now a great captain.

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Old
10-02-2003, 11:43 AM
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I'm going to get absolutely shellshocked for this, but... I don't think Saku Koivu is a very good captain.

Don't get me wrong, he showed an awesome courage when he came back from cancer and was a real inspiration for the whole team. Koivu is a very hard worker who gives everything he has on every shift. I don't think anyone on the Habs roster gives as much effort on the ice as Koivu does.

But, what makes a good captain? Certainly Koivu has great qualities... but...

The Canadiens last year were as far as you can get to a "team". Players fought in practices, the team was separated into a lot of small groups who rarely interacted with each other... and, well, pretty much everything we heard about that dressing room was a horror story. The players had ABSOLUTELY NO RESPECT for Michel Therrien, so much that after a while no one listened to him anymore.

Not to mention some comments that Koivu made that could just... make you shake your head sometimes. Like that thing about Garon playing better than any goalie he has ever seen... wonder how Theodore felt about that one.

Do you think that Steve Yzerman or Scott Stevens would have let crap like that happen to a team? I even heard rumours about the Habs considering to give Quintal the captaincy at some point, although I don't know if that was true and I don't think it would have solved anything.

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10-02-2003, 11:54 AM
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Koivu is a bad Captain :mad:

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Old
10-02-2003, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmad
Mats Sundin
and why is that....because he is a Swede? Why is Nasland better than him as a captain....curious as to your reason.

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Old
10-02-2003, 12:00 PM
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I've never been impressed by the leadership abilities of Sundin or Koivu. Sundin in particular, whom I think would be a better player than he is now without the C.

This is not a slag on Sundin as a player, but look at all the baloney that's been happening with the Leafs. Dressing room problems abound, the Corson/Mogilny rumours, not to mention that with Sundin in the lineup, the Leafs haven't really had a great deal of playoff success. He has never captained the team over the 'hump'.

However, Mark Messier I would say is the worst in the league. What makes him worse than Sundin & such is that Messier talks a big game but almost never performs to the level that he lauds himself to be. Since he came to the Canucks, he promised we'd make the playoffs and never did. He promised the Rangers they'd make the playoffs the year he went back there, and didn't. He may have been a good leader way back when, but now? Ugh.

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Old
10-02-2003, 12:34 PM
  #21
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No captain gets more respect around the league than Steve Konowalchuk...

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Old
10-02-2003, 12:36 PM
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I agree about Messier. He MAY have been a good captain in 1990 (after Gretz was gone), but has been nothing but a blowhard since 1995. He did a lot in Vancouver, didn't he? And now look at the mess in New York. If people can blame Sundin for the mess in Toronto, Messier must be blamed for the mess in NY. He cannot deliver anymore, that's all there is to it.

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Old
10-02-2003, 12:38 PM
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Joe Sakic?

 
Old
10-02-2003, 12:51 PM
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nathan
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Explain why Joe Sakic is a bad captain.

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Old
10-02-2003, 12:59 PM
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kmad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOMO_ROCKS
and why is that....because he is a Swede? Why is Nasland better than him as a captain....curious as to your reason.
Owen Nolan, Gary Roberts would make much better captains

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