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Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation 14-15 Part III

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07-26-2014, 04:38 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
Did he eat Carey Price for dinner or something?

I would really like to see him turn it around, but I really think that its unlikely to happen. Systems don't alter goalies SV% much. They may be able to improve SA with a more fully implemented PoMo system, which would help the GAA, but it doesn't explain how Montoya was able to post much better numbers behind the same team / system.
Yeah, you have a point, however, if Montoya played as many games as Pavelec I wonder if his numbers would still be better. Look, we know the Claude Noel days are over and with a full season of Maurice who knows. I agree with that for sure. The big thing is wins tho and this team needs to learn how to do that no matter whose in net.

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07-26-2014, 04:39 PM
  #77
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I still believe there is a top 10 NHL goaltender in Ondrej Pavelec. There, I said it. He faces perhaps more pressure game in game out then any other Jet. The team in front of him needs to step up this year and buy into whatever system Maurice implements.
Pavelec is spending the off season on the other side of the world. He is oblivious to what has been going on this summer in Winnipeg. All he knows is that management has handed him the starting job on a platter, told him to have a nice summer, and all he has to do is show up to claim it. Is there pressure? Of course, this is professional sports after all, but Pavelec has no idea what he's in for this season from the fan base IMO. First game, a couple of soft goals ( maybe even a floater from centre ice ) and the fans are going to turn on him. The press, well, they are going to keep towing the TNSE party line. Can't upset the overlords. But the fans... they have given Pavs the benefit of the doubt for 3 seasons and you can see it turning at the end of last season. Pavs has no idea the pressure he's going to be under when he shows up and plays just like Pavs.


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07-26-2014, 05:45 PM
  #78
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Pavelec is spending the off season on the other side of the world. He is oblivious to what has been going on this summer in Winnipeg. All he knows is that management has handed him the starting job on a platter, told him to have a nice summer, and all he has to do is show up to claim it. Is there pressure? Of course, this is professional sports after all, but Pavelec has no idea what he's in for this season from the fan base IMO. First game, a couple of soft goals ( maybe even a floater from centre ice ) and the fans are going to turn on him. The press, well, they are going to keep towing the TNSE party line. Can't upset the overlords. But the fans... they have given Pavs the benefit of the doubt for 3 seasons and you can see it turning at the end of last season. Pavs has no idea the pressure he's going to be under when he shows up and plays just like Pavs.
This is a tad over-dramatic

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07-26-2014, 06:30 PM
  #79
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I know this is just a fan forum and a place to talk about hockey but I don't know why we are talking about goaltenders because if you like it or not the goaltending is set.They are not trading Pavs you heard it from the coaches mouth he is the number one guy.I don't like it either but that's the way it is.Im more concerned with us needing another good third line guy.I saw were we are the lead pursuer in Penner.I say get him he is the best UFA left out there.I would much rather have him than Winnik.I understand some people say he is a little lazy but I don't think he would be that way under Maurice's system.Any thoughts?

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07-26-2014, 07:29 PM
  #80
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I know this is just a fan forum and a place to talk about hockey but I don't know why we are talking about goaltenders because if you like it or not the goaltending is set.They are not trading Pavs you heard it from the coaches mouth he is the number one guy.I don't like it either but that's the way it is.Im more concerned with us needing another good third line guy.I saw were we are the lead pursuer in Penner.I say get him he is the best UFA left out there.I would much rather have him than Winnik.I understand some people say he is a little lazy but I don't think he would be that way under Maurice's system.Any thoughts?
No,he can`t skate,plain and simple,he had his time and its over.Unless Paul Maurice chases him around the ice with a blowtorch it won`t work for him in Wpg.

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07-26-2014, 07:34 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Jetsfan4life View Post
I know this is just a fan forum and a place to talk about hockey but I don't know why we are talking about goaltenders because if you like it or not the goaltending is set.They are not trading Pavs you heard it from the coaches mouth he is the number one guy.I don't like it either but that's the way it is.Im more concerned with us needing another good third line guy.I saw were we are the lead pursuer in Penner.I say get him he is the best UFA left out there.I would much rather have him than Winnik.I understand some people say he is a little lazy but I don't think he would be that way under Maurice's system.Any thoughts?
I think a lot of Jets fans are going to be disappointed when Maurice doesn't walk on water.

I would just as soon go with O'Dell or another of our prospects in that spot as any of the UFAs that are left. It is time some of them were given an opportunity.

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07-26-2014, 08:24 PM
  #82
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I think a lot of Jets fans are going to be disappointed when Maurice doesn't walk on water.

I would just as soon go with O'Dell or another of our prospects in that spot as any of the UFAs that are left. It is time some of them were given an opportunity.
Yup. We have to take a risk and see where our prospects are at eventually. 7 in 30 in O'Dell's first peak into the NHL wasn't amazing, but not often you get blown away by a players first peek into the NHL (Unless their name is Teemu Selanne). At this point I don't think any UFA we can get is good enough to warrant blocking off our prospects passage and as a leap of faith, I feel O'Dell will do just fine if given the opportunity this year on the 3rd or 4th line.

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07-26-2014, 11:34 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
I think a lot of Jets fans are going to be disappointed when Maurice doesn't walk on water.

I would just as soon go with O'Dell or another of our prospects in that spot as any of the UFAs that are left. It is time some of them were given an opportunity.
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Yup. We have to take a risk and see where our prospects are at eventually. 7 in 30 in O'Dell's first peak into the NHL wasn't amazing, but not often you get blown away by a players first peek into the NHL (Unless their name is Teemu Selanne). At this point I don't think any UFA we can get is good enough to warrant blocking off our prospects passage and as a leap of faith, I feel O'Dell will do just fine if given the opportunity this year on the 3rd or 4th line.
I believe we should go with O'Dell at this point on the 3rd line. He can skate with Kane and I'm assuming that's where he'll play, with Perreault centering. Give it a shot. Hell, give it a long shot, get O'Dell over the 50 game threshold so he's still RFA, give it some time to develop some chemistry and maybe we run three legit scoring lines.

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07-26-2014, 11:46 PM
  #84
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I know this is just a fan forum and a place to talk about hockey but I don't know why we are talking about goaltenders because if you like it or not the goaltending is set.They are not trading Pavs you heard it from the coaches mouth he is the number one guy.I don't like it either but that's the way it is.Im more concerned with us needing another good third line guy.I saw were we are the lead pursuer in Penner.I say get him he is the best UFA left out there.I would much rather have him than Winnik.I understand some people say he is a little lazy but I don't think he would be that way under Maurice's system.Any thoughts?

I think he's a good player. His numbers are good, and he could help improve the Jets.

I haven't seen anything to indicate he's lazy, and I don't buy into all the "fan base narratives" surrounding players.

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07-26-2014, 11:57 PM
  #85
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I think he's a good player. His numbers are good, and he could help improve the Jets.

I haven't seen anything to indicate he's lazy, and I don't buy into all the "fan base narratives" surrounding players.
I don't think he is lazy either it's just what some other fans had said.I might get slammed for this but he is for sure better than Odell.I understand we need to bring players up to the next level but I say bring them up when we have injuries or someone is sick.We need NHL ready players right now.I can just see it now someone else is going to sign him and there is another one lost.And maybe we don't lose him because we are not quick enough,maybe he won't want to play here over somewhere else.We are one of the teams that needed to make some changes but it seems like we are one the teams that made the least.

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07-27-2014, 12:23 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Jetsfan4life View Post
I don't think he is lazy either it's just what some other fans had said.I might get slammed for this but he is for sure better than Odell.I understand we need to bring players up to the next level but I say bring them up when we have injuries or someone is sick.We need NHL ready players right now.I can just see it now someone else is going to sign him and there is another one lost.And maybe we don't lose him because we are not quick enough,maybe he won't want to play here over somewhere else.We are one of the teams that needed to make some changes but it seems like we are one the teams that made the least.
I have no idea whether Penner is lazy or not but I'm pretty sure he is slow. The Jets are a fast team and getting faster. Who's he going to play with?

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07-27-2014, 01:10 AM
  #87
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This is a tad over-dramatic
No it's not.

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07-27-2014, 04:49 AM
  #88
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Should we just trade Frolik for a 2nd round pick? Wouldn't be a bad idea.

But I'm just hoping Kane gets traded before training camp. Still hoping Chevy trades Kane to the Islanders and rips them off. Maybe Kane for Strome, 1st 2016 and Reinhart. Snow might be convinced Kane would be good with Tavares.

Read a rumour that the Preds might be interested in Kane. Wilson and Ellis were in the mix, but adding a first would make it a done-deal for me. I think it should be Leipsic, Jones and 1st 2015.

Jones and Leipsic were teammates in Portland, as were Petan and De Leo. Petan and Leipsic had amazing chemistry too. Leipsic is also a Winnipegger. Jones and Trouba were D partners in the WJC and U-18. So that'd be a very good thing to do.

If that is unfair, I say Chevy should add Frolik to the deal.

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07-27-2014, 04:57 AM
  #89
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Should we just trade Frolik for a 2nd round pick? Wouldn't be a bad idea.

But I'm just hoping Kane gets traded before training camp. Still hoping Chevy trades Kane to the Islanders and rips them off. Maybe Kane for Strome, 1st 2016 and Reinhart. Snow might be convinced Kane would be good with Tavares.

Read a rumour that the Preds might be interested in Kane. Wilson and Ellis were in the mix, but adding a first would make it a done-deal for me. I think it should be Leipsic, Jones and 1st 2015.

Jones and Leipsic were teammates in Portland, as were Petan and De Leo. Petan and Leipsic had amazing chemistry too. Leipsic is also a Winnipegger. Jones and Trouba were D partners in the WJC and U-18. So that'd be a very good thing to do.

If that is unfair, I say Chevy should add Frolik to the deal.
Islanders won't trade their futures unless they're malcontent (Niederreiter), and they're damn high on Reinhart and Strome. The rest of your post is just terrible and not worth responding to.

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07-27-2014, 05:31 AM
  #90
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Should we just trade Frolik for a 2nd round pick? Wouldn't be a bad idea.

But I'm just hoping Kane gets traded before training camp. Still hoping Chevy trades Kane to the Islanders and rips them off. Maybe Kane for Strome, 1st 2016 and Reinhart. Snow might be convinced Kane would be good with Tavares.

Read a rumour that the Preds might be interested in Kane. Wilson and Ellis were in the mix, but adding a first would make it a done-deal for me. I think it should be Leipsic, Jones and 1st 2015.

Jones and Leipsic were teammates in Portland, as were Petan and De Leo. Petan and Leipsic had amazing chemistry too. Leipsic is also a Winnipegger. Jones and Trouba were D partners in the WJC and U-18. So that'd be a very good thing to do.

If that is unfair, I say Chevy should add Frolik to the deal.
- We're about to sign him long term... why would we wanna trade him for a 2nd rounder?
- No way the Preds would wanna trade Jones away for Kane. Franchise defender > Kane.

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07-27-2014, 09:48 AM
  #91
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This is a tad over-dramatic
I think he is right on the money,I hate the thought of our own fans booing Pav but it's going to happen!

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07-27-2014, 10:57 AM
  #92
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I think he is right on the money,I hate the thought of our own fans booing Pav but it's going to happen!
Yup. It could be as soon as the next time he steps on the ice. It could get ugly and it won't be a good thing. Maybe it will take a little longer but it will happen.

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07-27-2014, 11:11 AM
  #93
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I think a lot of Jets fans are going to be disappointed when Maurice doesn't walk on water.

I would just as soon go with O'Dell or another of our prospects in that spot as any of the UFAs that are left. It is time some of them were given an opportunity.
I don't think it's a matter of Mo walking on water as much as it's having a guy in there with structure, systems, and methods to his madness. It was heavily rumoured from plenty of sources that the guys didn't really respect Noel and he was more of a idea guy than an implement guy.

Maurice is human and he won't be perfect but there was plenty of confusion and frustration around here with the way Noel did things so I guess I in particular want to see how these guys do with a whole cycle of a season with Maurice. (off season, TC, exy, into reg season)

I am leaning towards what you are saying too in just letting our farm guys fill the roster, unless one of these cap pressed teams present us with a better offer. I don't want Penner, I watched a significantly younger Penner play coming off a 30 ish goal season and he was Byfuglien, with half the talent and even less consistency to perform.

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07-27-2014, 11:28 AM
  #94
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Should we just trade Frolik for a 2nd round pick? Wouldn't be a bad idea.

But I'm just hoping Kane gets traded before training camp. Still hoping Chevy trades Kane to the Islanders and rips them off. Maybe Kane for Strome, 1st 2016 and Reinhart. Snow might be convinced Kane would be good with Tavares.

Read a rumour that the Preds might be interested in Kane. Wilson and Ellis were in the mix, but adding a first would make it a done-deal for me. I think it should be Leipsic, Jones and 1st 2015.

Jones and Leipsic were teammates in Portland, as were Petan and De Leo. Petan and Leipsic had amazing chemistry too. Leipsic is also a Winnipegger. Jones and Trouba were D partners in the WJC and U-18. So that'd be a very good thing to do.

If that is unfair, I say Chevy should add Frolik to the deal.
Wilson and Ellis for Kane.That is not very fair they better throw in some more.Wilson had 11 goals last year and Ellis is 5' 10'' 175.Kane is a possible 30+ goal scorer that rumor needs to be squashed.

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07-27-2014, 11:28 AM
  #95
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Islanders won't trade their futures unless they're malcontent (Niederreiter), and they're damn high on Reinhart and Strome.
I know of a certain 2015 first round pick who may wish to disagree with you.

And because of that trade, Snow is likely feeling pressure to make sure that the aforementioned pick lands outside of the top 5.

To say that he might do something stupid to ensure that, implies that Snow is capable of doing anything else. Zing!

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07-27-2014, 11:55 AM
  #96
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I don't think it's a matter of Mo walking on water as much as it's having a guy in there with structure, systems, and methods to his madness. It was heavily rumoured from plenty of sources that the guys didn't really respect Noel and he was more of a idea guy than an implement guy.

Maurice is human and he won't be perfect but there was plenty of confusion and frustration around here with the way Noel did things so I guess I in particular want to see how these guys do with a whole cycle of a season with Maurice. (off season, TC, exy, into reg season)

I am leaning towards what you are saying too in just letting our farm guys fill the roster, unless one of these cap pressed teams present us with a better offer. I don't want Penner, I watched a significantly younger Penner play coming off a 30 ish goal season and he was Byfuglien, with half the talent and even less consistency to perform.
Agree there. I want to see the result. I am cautiously optimistic but the new coach bounce has come and gone. What we see now will be the reality of what we are going to get for the next several years. I'm expecting the PoMo effect to be real but small.

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07-27-2014, 12:19 PM
  #97
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I don't think it's a matter of Mo walking on water as much as it's having a guy in there with structure, systems, and methods to his madness. It was heavily rumoured from plenty of sources that the guys didn't really respect Noel and he was more of a idea guy than an implement guy.

Maurice is human and he won't be perfect but there was plenty of confusion and frustration around here with the way Noel did things so I guess I in particular want to see how these guys do with a whole cycle of a season with Maurice. (off season, TC, exy, into reg season)

I am leaning towards what you are saying too in just letting our farm guys fill the roster, unless one of these cap pressed teams present us with a better offer. I don't want Penner, I watched a significantly younger Penner play coming off a 30 ish goal season and he was Byfuglien, with half the talent and even less consistency to perform.
I agree with the full cycle for PoMo point. Especially the TC/early season part. I think he wanted to go with the same guys anyway

PoMo stated that the team's conditioning was subpar and he estimated it would take more than a full season to get up to par.

I think the start of the season should be quite interesting. Could be a different season than what we are expecting if we can get off to a strong start for once.

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07-27-2014, 12:35 PM
  #98
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Agree there. I want to see the result. I am cautiously optimistic but the new coach bounce has come and gone. What we see now will be the reality of what we are going to get for the next several years. I'm expecting the PoMo effect to be real but small.
He did promise a tough training camp. I expect there will be lots of skating and lots of drills at top speed. How much will the impact be? That's why it's fun to watch.

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07-27-2014, 01:16 PM
  #99
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We still have some needs for trades. There is a pretty good case to be made to trade Buff. There are differing ideas of what we should try to get in exchange for him. The list is fairly long and a lot of it is probably pie-in-the-sky overvaluing. Then there is Kane. The case for trading him is obvious. The stumbling block is getting value for him.

As armchair GMs our first step is to identify potential trading partners. The criteria are these in no particular order; 1)Likely to be motivated to trade. The motivations that come immediately to my mind are cap trouble, too many players already on the roster and believing they may be within one good player of a cup winning team 2)In a position to want what we have. Some overlap here with item 1 but a near contender who already has 3 very strong LWs is not so likely to want Kane. Is there a team in the league that could not be improved with Kane? So maybe item 2 is more relevant to Buff. 3)Has assets that would meet our needs. This requires at least roughly defining our needs or the goal of the trade.

What are your thought? Which teams look good to want Kane and/or Buff or someone else? At the extreme I don't think there is a team in the league that wouldn't want Kane but we need to identify those that would want him badly enough to pay full value for him.

I'll start with a look at some potentially cap strapped teams. Right now Capgeek shows 4 teams over the cap.

Philly +3mil with 22 under contract. That is misleading because Chris Pronger's 4.9 mil will not count as he is a long term injury. That leaves Philly ~1.9mil under and needing 2 more contracts. Presumably they sign Erik Gustafsson to fill out their D. Capgeek seems to be projecting him in the KHL so maybe not. I'm not sure what that means, if anything. At any rate they should be able to get 2 bottom end players to fill their roster for 1.9 mil. They could still be a partner but not because they are over the cap though they will be bumping up against it. Any trade would have to be cap neutral or involve us taking on more salary than we give.

Chicago is 2.2 mil over and has 23 contracts. They have to do something that reduces their cap hit by that amount and leaves them with the same # of players or enough cap space to get back to the same #. Apparently they have been trying unsuccessfully to trade Sharp and I have also heard Seabrooks name tossed around a bit. Chicago is a potential partner because they have to do something. Because of their relatively high pay anything involving either Kane or Buff would have to be a more complicated deal to get Chicago under the cap. I don't know if they would be interested in reacquiring Buff having traded him away a few years ago. Maybe that doesn't mean anything. At any rate they are a potential partner IF we can solve their cap problem without them having to lose too much. They are in cap trouble though so they have to expect to lose something.

Tampa Bay appears to be over by 1.9 mil with 24 contracts but that includes Matthias Ohlund who will be a long term injury. Subtract his 3.6 and they have 1.7 to spare with 23 contracts in hand. So if they are a partner it won't be because of cap issues.

Boston is 800k over with 2 RFAs yet to sign. Those 2 are going to cost them somewhere in the neighbourhood of 4+ mil. That puts them ~5 mil over. They have to do something. I don't see any way for them to get under without taking a significant loss somewhere. Definitely potential there.

Washington is under by 1.1 mil but needs 1 more forward. They should have no trouble there but maybe something could be done that gives them a better F and still be under.

I think the key thing to remember when speculating about deals under cap pressure is that the deal not only has to solve the cap problem but has to be as good as they are likely to get anywhere else. Even an ugly girl may have plenty of suitors to choose from if she has money.

Ok, this thread is supposed to be about trades and speculation. What I am asking for is reasoned speculation based on needs and haves. What have you got?

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07-27-2014, 01:19 PM
  #100
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He did promise a tough training camp. I expect there will be lots of skating and lots of drills at top speed. How much will the impact be? That's why it's fun to watch.
The conditioning issue at TC may be fun. Even though they were warned a few of the players may get a bit of a shock (I hope so). There will always be some who believe their conditioning was better than it actually was.

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