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Unnecessary Saves

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07-22-2014, 01:21 PM
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Steerpike
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Unnecessary Saves

In the official definition: A shot that is going to miss but is saved anyway is not a shot on goal. Do the beings that record shots on goal actually have a means of implementing this definition? Without something like tennis's Hawkeye I can't see it really being possible.

Thus might some goalies have inflated save percentages from saving shots that are really just Fenwick events and not shots on goal?


Last edited by ThirdManIn: 07-22-2014 at 01:39 PM. Reason: I get wanting a "timely answer", but we have sub forums for a reason
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07-22-2014, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bedsheetrubber92 View Post
In the official definition: A shot that is going to miss but is saved anyway is not a shot on goal. Do the beings that record shots on goal actually have a means of implementing this definition? Without something like tennis's Hawkeye I can't see it really being possible.

Thus might some goalies have inflated save percentages from saving shots that are really just Fenwick events and not shots on goal?
Gustavsson tries to make a stop on a shot that goes wide, but puts it in his net @ 1:38:



Last edited by ThirdManIn: 07-22-2014 at 01:39 PM. Reason: edited quote
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07-22-2014, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bedsheetrubber92 View Post
In the official definition: A shot that is going to miss but is saved anyway is not a shot on goal. Do the beings that record shots on goal actually have a means of implementing this definition? Without something like tennis's Hawkeye I can't see it really being possible.

Thus might some goalies have inflated save percentages from saving shots that are really just Fenwick events and not shots on goal?
It's pretty straightforward, you look at where the puck is headed when the goalie makes the save.

Needless to say there will never be 100% accuracy when relying on human judgment, but the margin of error is pretty small in proportion to the thousands of saves a goalie makes in a season.

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07-22-2014, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
It's pretty straightforward, you look at where the puck is headed when the goalie makes the save.

Needless to say there will never be 100% accuracy when relying on human judgment, but the margin of error is pretty small in proportion to the thousands of saves a goalie makes in a season.
But if there is a systematic error it doesn't get washed out in large sample sizes. Certain goalies might be more prone to this effect.

Also, pucks go really fast and are pretty small. Were exactly are these people sitting that they can see quite closely where a save was made?

And it's not like goalies are at the plane of the net all the time. Very often they are in front of the net cutting down the angle, making it very difficult to tell if a save was necessary.


Last edited by Steerpike: 07-22-2014 at 01:34 PM. Reason: Realized I was talking to a global moderator, became less snippy.
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07-22-2014, 01:49 PM
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tarheelhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bedsheetrubber92 View Post
But if there is a systematic error it doesn't get washed out in large sample sizes. Certain goalies might be more prone to this effect.

Also, pucks go really fast and are pretty small. Were exactly are these people sitting that they can see quite closely where a save was made?

And it's not like goalies are at the plane of the net all the time. Very often they are in front of the net cutting down the angle, making it very difficult to tell if a save was necessary.
This article should help answer some of these questions:

http://www.usahockeymagazine.com/art...03/stat-attack

Quote:
Atwater, as penalty box timekeeper, and Bohm, who is a goal judge/spotter, will be at ice level, while Lundy will be perched upstairs in a booth as the supervisor/official scorer. As the clock ticks toward game time, they leave to finish the necessary prep work.

Off-ice officials are an extension of the officiating team that dons the stripes every night. From keeping track of shots on goal to keeping the peace in the penalty boxes to lending an extra set of eyes on disputed goals, off-ice officials are less visible than their on-ice compatriots but equally important in the operation of an NHL game.

As the puck drops, the scoring booth is abuzz with activity. Numbers are called out in an irregular cadence that sound like a nervous quarterback calling out signals:


“Nine to 26, 30 … Nope, 51, 32, 34.”
“27 …”
“Three? Yeah, three …82 …”
“82, 27 … Goalie.”
“57 white.”
“27.”
“52 …”

Meanwhile, seven pairs of eyes are fixed on the ice below. Even those logging information into computers seldom take their eyes from the action below. They can’t afford to. The action in an NHL game is so fast that if you blink you can miss a crucial play.

As players pour on and off the ice, it’s up to Carrie Ayala or John Sotak to keep track and monitor the changes. The new cast of characters on the ice is reflected on the computer screens of Laura Lippman and Jim Peter, who keep track of shots on goal, blocked shots and hits.
You have a 7-person crew of officials with 2 individuals specifically charged to cover shot counts. They have access to game film in real time, as well as the perspective of the officials stationed directly behind the goal.

Will there still be mistakes? Undoubtedly so. But it would only apply to those situations where the shot is so difficult to follow that even on replay it's still a judgment call.

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