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Ott-Pho Proposal

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Old
10-05-2003, 03:10 PM
  #1
Volchenkov
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Ott-Pho Proposal

To Ott: Ladislav Nagy
To Pho: Karel Rachunek + 1st + Vaclav Varada

The question boils down to - does a top-4 defenseman = a 2nd line forward? Both players are the same age and at around the same stage of development.

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Old
10-05-2003, 04:05 PM
  #2
Dr.Sens(e)
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Man, that is one bad trade. Are you trying to weaken Ottawa on purpose?

Rachunek and the equivalent of two 1st's for Nagy is ridiculous, no how matter how much you like Nagy. If he came in and scored 30 goals it would still be a bad trade.

All of a sudden Ottawa's D is thin, and now we have even more scoring forwards to try and find a spot for when all hands are on deck...

*sigh*

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Old
10-05-2003, 04:15 PM
  #3
berney fkaj
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I think that would be a great trade for Ottawa to make

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Old
10-05-2003, 04:18 PM
  #4
Volchenkov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Sens(e)
Man, that is one bad trade. Are you trying to weaken Ottawa on purpose?

Rachunek and the equivalent of two 1st's for Nagy is ridiculous, no how matter how much you like Nagy. If he came in and scored 30 goals it would still be a bad trade.

All of a sudden Ottawa's D is thin, and now we have even more scoring forwards to try and find a spot for when all hands are on deck...

*sigh*
I honestly think a Nagy for Rachunek straight up is fair, but I like to put a buffer between what I think is fair to what others might. Nagy would give us some major skill on the left side, while the loss of Varada is inconsequential and not nearly the equivalent of a first.

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Old
10-05-2003, 04:21 PM
  #5
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Naw. I wouldn't do that trade. Rachunek for Nagy may seem fair at first but Ottawa's top four d-men is one of the best. And adding Varada and a 1st just sweetens the pot for Phoenix.


Varada is a pest and is a great commodity to have for the playoffs and who knows he may pot 15 goals playing with Bonk and Hossa this year.

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Old
10-05-2003, 04:25 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berney fkaj
I think that would be a great trade for Ottawa to make
Hey everybody, this guy should be the next GM for Ottawa.

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Old
10-05-2003, 05:04 PM
  #7
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sens get boned doggy*coyote* style

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Old
10-05-2003, 05:43 PM
  #8
Kritty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Sens(e)
Man, that is one bad trade. Are you trying to weaken Ottawa on purpose?

Rachunek and the equivalent of two 1st's for Nagy is ridiculous, no how matter how much you like Nagy. If he came in and scored 30 goals it would still be a bad trade.

All of a sudden Ottawa's D is thin, and now we have even more scoring forwards to try and find a spot for when all hands are on deck...

*sigh*
Rachunek and 2 1sts for Nagy? Where did you come up with the 2nd 1st rounder? Sorry but just because Varada was traded for a prospect that was picked in the 1st round that doesn't mean Varada is worth a 1st round pick. That's just absurd thinking.

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Old
10-05-2003, 05:51 PM
  #9
ducky
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Overpayment probably by Ottawa but it does not work for Phoenix:

Nagy is the Coyotes' ONLY legit offensive threat. LAst person they can afford to trade right now. Goals will be hard to come by as it is.

Plus, major bad blood concerning Varada in Phoenix...it was his cheap hit from behind that nearly ruined Kolanos' career...would be a terrible move to bring him to the team

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Old
10-05-2003, 06:13 PM
  #10
Dancing Chicken
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LOL on a side note that pile of Varada is the one who cheap shot Krys and nearly ened his NHL playing days. He is Hated by the Yotes and most of there fans.

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Old
10-05-2003, 07:32 PM
  #11
Hossa
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That's just disgusting. I'm sorry V, but that proposal just doesn't make much sense.

Nagy could score thirty goals, but his value is similar to Rachunek's. We'd essentially be giving up our 2002 first rounder and our 2004 first rounder as well. We don't need more scoring. Ya, our left side on paper isn't amazing, but conisder we have 5 centers who could score 20 goals, at least 1, probably 2 of them will play LW. Plus, if Schastlivy stays healthy, 20 goals is a pretty solid bet. No need to give up a young, cheap, well-rounded and improving top 4 d-man.

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Old
10-06-2003, 12:46 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
To Ott: Ladislav Nagy
To Pho: Karel Rachunek + 1st + Vaclav Varada

The question boils down to - does a top-4 defenseman = a 2nd line forward? Both players are the same age and at around the same stage of development.
Nobody in Phoenix wants Vareada on the team. They would actually cheer for Simpson of the Ducks to murder to guy.

I can't believe Dr Sens thinks Varada is worth a 1st rounder.

Phoenix needs Nagy more than they need Rachunek.

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Old
10-06-2003, 02:43 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
To Ott: Ladislav Nagy
To Pho: Karel Rachunek + 1st + Vaclav Varada

The question boils down to - does a top-4 defenseman = a 2nd line forward? Both players are the same age and at around the same stage of development.
I'm getting the feeling that you're not a Senators fan, just a Volchenkov fan.

Horrible deal. I wouldn't even deal Rachunek for Nagy straight up, because young D-man take a little longer to fully develop there game and Rachunek is on his way to become our #1 or #2 guy.

Beside, why does Ottawa need Nagy? Beside the name on offense, which were already mentioned the Sens also have Vermette and several other youngster in there system.

To sum it up. No deal!

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Old
10-06-2003, 03:12 AM
  #14
Hossa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoyoteTony
I can't believe Dr Sens thinks Varada is worth a 1st rounder.
Well the rational is pretty simple really. Varada was dealt for Jakub Klepis, our 2002 first round pick. We'd essentially be dealing our 2002 first, and our 2004 first plus Rachunek.

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Old
10-06-2003, 04:28 AM
  #15
officeglen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomACE
I'm getting the feeling that you're not a Senators fan, just a Volchenkov fan.

Horrible deal. I wouldn't even deal Rachunek for Nagy straight up, because young D-man take a little longer to fully develop there game and Rachunek is on his way to become our #1 or #2 guy.

Beside, why does Ottawa need Nagy? Beside the name on offense, which were already mentioned the Sens also have Vermette and several other youngster in there system.

To sum it up. No deal!
Nagy is a LW that both SF and MK have predicted over 30 goals this season. If Rachunek will be a 1/2 D long term, then value is feasible in this deal (although as the Coys I would want Schastlivy instead of Varada - a natural LW, younger, and better potential, even with the injury history), but if Rackunek is just a 3/4 D then Coys lose.

However I don't understand this deal, as it's not just a question of value but also the reasoning for both teams. The Sens get a #1 LW but in turn get a hole on their starting D. The Coys are supposed to play who as #1 LW? Why would the GMs even start talking about this deal?

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Old
10-06-2003, 09:20 AM
  #16
Kritty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hossa
Well the rational is pretty simple really. Varada was dealt for Jakub Klepis, our 2002 first round pick. We'd essentially be dealing our 2002 first, and our 2004 first plus Rachunek.
I don't buy that rationale for one second. It's Muckler's fault that he gave up a past 1st rounder to get Varada. If you ask me it was one of two reasons, either Muckler isn't all that high on Klepis or else he was that desperate to add grit that he gave up a 1st round pick. Regardless, Varada is not the equivalent of a 1st rounder no matter what sort of spin you try to put on it.

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Old
10-06-2003, 09:28 AM
  #17
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I like Nagy, he could put up 70 points if playing on the LW of the first line, either with Hossa or Alfredsson. He's still very young too. Although I'd hate to lose Rachunek, I'd do the deal if the pick was a bit lower.
In fact I don't know how Phoenix would want to do it, Nagy could be their leading scorer this year.

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Old
10-06-2003, 02:00 PM
  #18
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Bottom line: deal works for neither team.

Obviously, the Sens wouldn't want to give up that much for a guy who would be their 2nd line LW.

The Coyotes would hesitate to do the deal as well. As good as Rachunek is, the Coyotes don't have room for him. With the Senators one of the best teams in the league this year, that 1st rounder is as valuable as a high 2nd rounder. As for Varada, aside from the fact that he is P.E. #3 in Phoenix right now (behind Tkachuk, who is #1 and #2),they already have Tyson Nash.

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Old
10-06-2003, 03:07 PM
  #19
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Volchenkov, I think you've made it clear that you have no use for Varada but he was picked up by the Sens for a reason. Ottawa needed sandpaper and they went out and got it...for them to cast that aside for another smallish skill player is retreating back into the days where the Leafs will be knocking them out again.

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Old
10-07-2003, 05:09 AM
  #20
discostu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
To Ott: Ladislav Nagy
To Pho: Karel Rachunek + 1st + Vaclav Varada

The question boils down to - does a top-4 defenseman = a 2nd line forward? Both players are the same age and at around the same stage of development.
This is a standard Volchenkov trade.

He gets rid of Varada, who's apparently run over his dog . He also moves a defencemen, so that Anton Volchenkov get's to move up to a top 4 defencemen.

Trade won't happen, for the many reasons already listed in this thread. I like Nagy though, and last year, when there was talk of moving Bonk, I had wanted Ottawa to go after Nagy in return. He has since improved his play though, and will now be costly to ever obtain. He's one of the few things that Phoenix has going for them right now, and I wouldn't expect to see him moved.

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Old
10-07-2003, 08:21 AM
  #21
Volchenkov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomACE
I'm getting the feeling that you're not a Senators fan, just a Volchenkov fan.
I resent that. I'm am much more a diehard Sens fan than a Volchenkov fan.

I intentionally overpaid from an Ottawa standpoint in order so that nobody could make the stupid "Ottawa wins easily" "Bad proposal" etc. etc.

I get sick of fans of the other team overrating their players (i'm sure I overrate sens players), so I added to the proposal.

A more realistic deal would be:

Nagy, Spiller
for
Rachunek

You can never have enough skill, so the more top-notch skill players you have, the better off you are. I think that value-wise Nagy for Rachunek is pretty equal. I understand the sentiment that we need 4 top-4 defensemen more than top-6 forwards.

Odiedog: Are you telling me the sens will do better in tha playoffs with Varada in the lineup instead of Nagy?? That's a load of crap. The top playoff teams in recent history aren't big bruising teams, but rather skill teams (Colorado, Detroit, NJ).

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Old
10-07-2003, 08:25 AM
  #22
Safir*
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov

Nagy, Spiller
for
Rachunek

You can never have enough skill, so the more top-notch skill players you have, the better off you are. I think that value-wise Nagy for Rachunek is pretty equal. I understand the sentiment that we need 4 top-4 defensemen more than top-6 forwards.
Did Spiller make the cut?

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Old
10-07-2003, 08:29 AM
  #23
Volchenkov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomACE
Did Spiller make the cut?
I have no clue, but he's a decent prospect, similar to Platil in terms of potential.

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Old
10-07-2003, 08:31 AM
  #24
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Spiller's name increases his value 4-fold.

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Old
10-07-2003, 01:06 PM
  #25
PhoPhan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomACE
Did Spiller make the cut?
Spiller made the team, and once again, the Coyotes have little need for Rachunek.

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