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The Edmonton Eskimos 2014 CFL season is here! Part 2

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Old
07-25-2014, 10:55 AM
  #26
dookers9
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Originally Posted by Powder View Post
I might be alone in my thinking but I thought that if you take away the special teams last night, that the Esks were the better team.

I thought our D and was better and the O was moving the ball better.

Bad decisions and all, that was a very winnable game even right down to the end.
I'd agree for the most part.

Special teams were questionable - not just Shaw - and there need to be so be changes made there. Let's start with the blocked punt for TD, and end with the brutal coverage on both kicks and kick-returns.

But the Stamps are a good team. They came in undefeated as well, after all. We can rail all we want about lack of execution, but some credit needs to go to a well-coached solid roster, top to bottom. Reilly took some time to move the team but that's a solid D. We had some half decent runs against them and there was more there through the air than we took advantage of too.

Mitchell was pressed a few times, but he generally had all day to throw with our 4 man front. Stamps did a good job of protection even though Mitchell in general, didn't impress. He got the job done and made some nice tosses, but made many poor decisions in forcing passes that should have come back to haunt him (Willis and Burnett off the top of my head). We could have stunted them some more and taken advantage of him, imo.

Adding Cornish, the Stamps are that much stronger. But let's be real: we gave them 14 points (blocked punt and screw up gamble). It was our game to lose, and we found a way.

Disappointing, but all in all I don't think today's weather should match Esks fans' mood. I hate losing to the Stamps as much as anybody, but we'll have legit shots at 'em again soon enough.

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07-25-2014, 10:57 AM
  #27
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i cant believe all the negativity.
the team is still 4-1, if we were **** like we were the last 2 years then sure. EVEN if we lose the next 3 games we are still miles ahead of where we were last year.
Being "miles ahead of last year" isn't really saying much.

Maybe I'm all alone on this one but seeing Calgary walk into Edmonton and punk them time after time hurts no matter what sport it's in. Especially as someone who lives in Cowtown. They have yet to beat a legit team this year so watching the Stamps laugh it up while the Esks bumbled and stumbled their way to a loss wasn't surprising but still disappointing.

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07-25-2014, 10:58 AM
  #28
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Reilly played the best ball hawking team in the league last night and threw 1 interception. He completed some long throws and generated about as much offense as can be expected against the Stamps.

My take is Stubler is a great coach and given personnel like this to work with the Stamps D is a force to contend with. In case you didn't notice on the vast majority of plays Stamps weren't bringing the rush. They were dropping back creating an oddman situation for Reilly to throw into. Reilly was looking at a lot of coverage no matter where he was throwing the ball to there. you gotta also consider how quick the Stamps D are. Its crazy how fast they converge on where ball is thrown.

If you're a QB facing this monster you get a cold sweat out there. Reilly did enough to Win against the best facet of the Stamps team. if the special teams had held up their end of the bargain we win this game.

One more comment as well. As good as the Esks D played there were about 6 Mitchell balls that were fairly easy ints that were dropped. Mitchell had a horrible outing passing for just over 100yds and what could easily be multiple ints.

It was that kind of a day for QB's but Reilly was way better out there.

Gotta say though I love the West in the CFL. Got some great clubs and D's and games will be hard fought. We're getting a lot of value in the West and seeing great players. East is just garbage.
There's no question that Stubler is a defensive mastermind, just as Chris Jones is. I think the points on where we may have to agree to disagree is on Reilly as a QB this season because he hasn't looked good against Hamilton. He hasn't looked great against Ottawa. Other than rushing, he didn't look great against Winnipeg. And he certainly didn't look good against Calgary last night. We can ignore that worrying issues in his game and hope that he can learn to read a defense and how to pass effectively from the pocket but lets be honest, if that's Ray in there, people are rightly criticizing his performance for making silly throws, not sustaining drives and moving the offense, not putting up points etc.

I don't think any team goes in with the mindset that 200 yards of passing is the maximum amount of offense you can generate against a defense. That's a defeatist attitude and implies that an offense has no ability to adjust to schemes or exploit its weaknesses. The Esks dropped numerous Bo would be INT's last night you're right, but the Stamps also dropped three would be Reilly INT's as well. The dropping LB on the first series letting it bounce off his mitts (can't remember his name), another crosser in the second half where Reilly overthrew his target and the dangerous throws into triple coverage at the end of the first half. These things usually balance out, at least they did until Willis and Grymes failed to come up with those INT's at the end of the game. Those hurt.

Without this Grey Cup calibre defense this team is likely 0-5 right now. Our offense has been lethargic to start the season. The D kept us in it against BC, basically won it vs Hamilton. Beasted vs Ottawa and Winnipeg with incredible performances. They had another one last night. Three phases lost us the game; Special Teams, Coaching and Offense. The defense once again kept us in it all second half but Reilly and company mustered up a paltry 60 yards passing (30 of it on one play). The Stamps D got a helping hand and we made them look better than they were by continually shooting ourselves in the foot. Reilly needs to learn how to throw the ball away - taking the sack on 2nd and inches was the sign of a player who tries to do too much too often and forces things when they aren't there. He needs to learn how to be more patient and live to fight another down sometimes.

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07-25-2014, 11:06 AM
  #29
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reilly certainly looks a LOT worst than last year... last night was likely his poorest game in the CFL, simply horrific passing.... overthrowing guys all night, terrible
I hope that he can work through it and am hoping that he's simply taking some extra time to adjust to the new offensive scheme but I'm starting to get concerned. He was getting happy feet in the pocket last night when there was no pressure whatsoever. If you notice, in the pocket, he rarely steps into a throw.

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07-25-2014, 11:09 AM
  #30
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There's no question that Stubler is a defensive mastermind, just as Chris Jones is. I think the points on where we may have to agree to disagree is on Reilly as a QB this season because he hasn't looked good against Hamilton. He hasn't looked great against Ottawa. Other than rushing, he didn't look great against Winnipeg. And he certainly didn't look good against Calgary last night. We can ignore that worrying issues in his game and hope that he can learn to read a defense and how to pass effectively from the pocket but lets be honest, if that's Ray in there, people are rightly criticizing his performance for making silly throws, not sustaining drives and moving the offense, not putting up points etc.

I don't think any team goes in with the mindset that 200 yards of passing is the maximum amount of offense you can generate against a defense. That's a defeatist attitude and implies that an offense has no ability to adjust to schemes or exploit its weaknesses. The Esks dropped numerous Bo would be INT's last night but you're right, but the Stamps also dropped three would be Reilly INT's as well. The dropping LB on the first series letting it bounce off his mitts (can't remember his name), another crosser in the second half where Reilly overthrew his target and the dangerous throws into triple coverage at the end of the first half. These things usually balance out, at least they did until Willis and Grymes failed to come up with those INT's at the end of the game. Those hurt.

With out this Grey Cup calibre defense this team is likely 0-5 right now. Our offense has been lethargic to start the season. Kept us in it against BC, basically won it vs Hamilton. Beasted vs Ottawa and Winnipeg with incredible performances. They had another one last night. Three phases lost us the game; Special Teams, Coaching and Offense. They kept us in it all second half but Reilly and company mustered up a paltry 60 yards passing (30 of it on one play). The Stamps D got a helping hand and we made them look better than they were by continually shooting ourselves in the foot. Reilly needs to learn how to throw the ball away - taking the sack on 2nd and inches was the sign of a player who tries to do too much too often and forces things when they aren't there. He needs to learn how to be more patient and live to fight another down sometimes.
Not sure what to tell you. CFL West is a changing league and with MONSTER D's. Some adjustment of expectations is necessary based on that. 300yd passing outings simply won't occur against D this strong. Reilly had arguably best game of the season last night in what was certainly his biggest test. My own take is Stamps (god love him) shouldn't have been playing last night. If any of us got hit by that Mack Truck last week and had been hit by a truck every other game every year we wouldn't be getting out of bed. His pain threshold is unbelievable but sometimes you just gotta say no Fred, sorry. Stamps couldn't break coverage last night and got open on the one play on a miscue. He wasn't finding any daylight all night.. This leaves Bowman who was not at his best last night leaving Chambers, a raw talent, being the best Receiver on the night. When a 24yr old Canadian is your best receiver on the night(and don't get me wrong I love Chambers) and you're facing the vaunted Stamps D its going to be a long night for any QB.

All this talk about Reilly being bad but again Mitchell had 120yds passing and threw into the hands of 6 Esks defenders last night. An abysmal game but he gets the win because of great performances by the other two units and guys flat out dropping the ball..

Reilly was twice as good as Mitchell yesterday and not even close. Frankly I like that matchup and it gives us a chance going forward.

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07-25-2014, 11:12 AM
  #31
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I'd agree for the most part.

Special teams were questionable - not just Shaw - and there need to be so be changes made there. Let's start with the blocked punt for TD, and end with the brutal coverage on both kicks and kick-returns.

But the Stamps are a good team. They came in undefeated as well, after all. We can rail all we want about lack of execution, but some credit needs to go to a well-coached solid roster, top to bottom. Reilly took some time to move the team but that's a solid D. We had some half decent runs against them and there was more there through the air than we took advantage of too.

Mitchell was pressed a few times, but he generally had all day to throw with our 4 man front. Stamps did a good job of protection even though Mitchell in general, didn't impress. He got the job done and made some nice tosses, but made many poor decisions in forcing passes that should have come back to haunt him (Willis and Burnett off the top of my head). We could have stunted them some more and taken advantage of him, imo.

Adding Cornish, the Stamps are that much stronger. But let's be real: we gave them 14 points (blocked punt and screw up gamble). It was our game to lose, and we found a way.

Disappointing, but all in all I don't think today's weather should match Esks fans' mood. I hate losing to the Stamps as much as anybody, but we'll have legit shots at 'em again soon enough.
The bolded part sums up the entire game for me.

Other than a fairly solid Calgary D I didn't think they did much to deserve the win.

I'm not as doom and gloom about this team as some others are today. All the issues from last night are very correctable. I'll reserve my judgment until after we see how they respond to a loss like that.

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07-25-2014, 11:20 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Ser Woof View Post
I hope that he can work through it and am hoping that he's simply taking some extra time to adjust to the new offensive scheme but I'm starting to get concerned. He was getting happy feet in the pocket last night when there was no pressure whatsoever. If you notice, in the pocket, he rarely steps into a throw.
I've had my moments of worry too and Reilly is not going to have all the ingredients but on a good team he could be enough to win it all. With this being a good team. He does enough things well already. I expect he'll get better settling into the offense.

As a defender Reilly is scary. A monster arm that overthrows Chambers on a go route without even getting set for the pass.

Both Chambers and the D's jaw dropped a little on that one

Reilly can throw a bomb off one foot while being held when he's not burning you for a first down with his feet. A guy that is rarely dead on any play and can hurt you. I'll take that guy anytime.

A Reilly led offense is rarely going to look consistent (without an established running game which is still a work in progress but showing signs) but he can put up 6 on ANY play. A worry for any D to contend with. Again I'll take that player with a wide grin on my face.

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07-25-2014, 11:35 AM
  #33
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I've had my moments of worry too and Reilly is not going to have all the ingredients but on a good team he could be enough to win it all. With this being a good team. He does enough things well already. I expect he'll get better settling into the offense.

As a defender Reilly is scary. A monster arm that overthrows Chambers on a go route without even getting set for the pass.

Both Chambers and the D's jaw dropped a little on that one

Reilly can throw a bomb off one foot while being held when he's not burning you for a first down with his feet. A guy that is rarely dead on any play and can hurt you. I'll take that guy anytime.

A Reilly led offense is rarely going to look consistent (without an established running game which is still a work in progress but showing signs) but he can put up 6 on ANY play. A worry for any D to contend with. Again I'll take that player with a wide grin on my face.
Agreed that there are signs of this developing. Lawrence had some nice darts and a particular catch and run that showed his potential effectiveness. As with White.

Imo they need to get consistent performances out of the O line in order to open the holes that establish the run game. When a team can box 7 against you you'll either get constant pass pressure or a bunged up run game. O lines get far too much criticism for ineffective run games and/or poor pass attacks, but obviously their capacity to work as a cohesive unit will largely dictate how both go.

The Line is better, but we still need more from them. Because Reilly is such a scrambler, it's liabel to reflect poorly on the line - it's tough to protect a guy when you don't know where he'll be moving to next. Of course, "chicken or the egg" here too, right?

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07-25-2014, 11:42 AM
  #34
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- No matter how Jones tries to justify it like he did on the radio last night, that fake punt was a terrible call.
- the Esks were easily the better team last night and deserved to win, and should have blown them out. Yes, I know it's a game of inches and some breaks should have gone Calgary's way, but all the breaks seemed to go against us. We could have won that game by two TDs.
- the Esks are still 4-1 and are having an awesome season so far. They've won me over. This team is for real and playoff bound. A home playoff game is within reach. I can't believe some of the drivel I've been reading.
- Calgary may still be better than we are, but we can play on par with them and with any team in the league.
- With what I'm reading here and hearing on the radio, most sports fans are morons.
- The fans who stood in line for an hour for the bleak chance to split a large pool of money, missing much of an excellent game, are idiots. There were fights over line placements. Give me a break.

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07-25-2014, 11:53 AM
  #35
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- No matter how Jones tries to justify it like he did on the radio last night, that fake punt was a terrible call.
- the Esks were easily the better team last night and deserved to win, and should have blown them out. Yes, I know it's a game of inches and some breaks should have gone Calgary's way, but all the breaks seemed to go against us. We could have won that game by two TDs.
- the Esks are still 4-1 and are having an awesome season so far. They've won me over. This team is for real and playoff bound. A home playoff game is within reach. I can't believe some of the drivel I've been reading.
- Calgary may still be better than we are, but we can play on par with them and with any team in the league.
- With what I'm reading here and hearing on the radio, most sports fans are morons.
- The fans who stood in line for an hour for the bleak chance to split a large pool of money, missing much of an excellent game, are idiots. There were fights over line placements. Give me a break.
I'd go with the vast majority of that.

There were non-football fans who'd bought tickets specifically for the right to stand in one of those lineups to get 50/50 tickets. Hey, I'd have happily bought a handful had I found the chance. But I came for the football game. I sat there looking across the field at the empty seats, all too cognizant that a miriad of knobs were missing out on a showdown for the divisional lead.

I shook my head.

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07-25-2014, 11:53 AM
  #36
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^^ 2 of the breaks were specifically officiating generated. The Stamps TD obviously on a routine hold that one sees on nearly every down. Just a brutal call, worse still is it was matching penalties on the down and we get the playover without the TD...

Next one was the hotball that was rolling by Mitchell and that was free ball to anybody that got it. Could've even been 6 the other way.

Instead Stamps are called on illegal procedure.

makes you wonder if Football should just have a play on component to it like Soccer when the infracting club is at an obvious disadvantage.

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07-25-2014, 11:58 AM
  #37
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I'd go with the vast majority of that.

There were non-football fans who'd bought tickets specifically for the right to stand in one of those lineups to get 50/50 tickets. Hey, I'd have happily bought a handful had I found the chance. But I came for the football game. I sat there looking across the field at the empty seats, all too cognizant that a miriad of knobs were missing out on a showdown for the divisional lead.

I shook my head.
It was easily the best game in the CFL played this season. Its easily about as good a battle as a regular season CFL tilt gets.

As in hockey I think some fans have difficulty appreciating the Defensive side of the ball. There was simply consistently fantastic play from both D units. For instance I don't know know a tackle was missed the whole game. You saw 100 open field tackles in this game and jaw dropping entertainment out there by two quality sides and instead of appreciating that theres a focus on a bad decision.

I don't have a great understanding of football. But I know enough to know when I'm seeing great players and teams playing the game. This was quality CFL football. An enticing game.

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07-25-2014, 12:09 PM
  #38
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It was easily the best game in the CFL played this season. Its easily about as good a battle as a regular season CFL tilt gets.

As in hockey I think some fans have difficulty appreciating the Defensive side of the ball. There was simply consistently fantastic play from both D units. For instance I don't know know a tackle was missed the whole game. You saw 100 open field tackles in this game and jaw dropping entertainment out there by two quality sides and instead of appreciating that theres a focus on a bad decision.

I don't have a great understanding of football. But I know enough to know when I'm seeing great players and teams playing the game. This was quality CFL football. An enticing game.
Totally agree.

Our league is so bent on the fantastic, down-to-the-wire offensive fireworks, yet I would often say just that to my buddy next to me, that the D for both sides was great and enjoyable to watch.

Always a tad less appreciative when these plays are made by the opponent , but both teams deserved kudos. Both sets of dbs would close on receivers so quickly. Great coverage, and as you mention, super tackling. Few episodes of trying to simply pop a guy with a big hit; ball carriers were wrapped up in old school ways that are technically sound.

I love defensive displays, even at the expense of explosive offensive plays.

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07-25-2014, 12:34 PM
  #39
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The Esks pretty much tried to lose that game and still nearly won. Not too bad I'd say

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07-25-2014, 12:41 PM
  #40
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I hope that he can work through it and am hoping that he's simply taking some extra time to adjust to the new offensive scheme but I'm starting to get concerned. He was getting happy feet in the pocket last night when there was no pressure whatsoever. If you notice, in the pocket, he rarely steps into a throw.
total happy feet this year.... there were a few times last night where the pocket was collapsing to the side and behind him and he stepped up, and i thought "thank freaking GOD, he's *finally* gonna step up into the pocket and make a pass", but he always ran the ball... i honestly can't think of one example of him stepping up into the pocket all season yet

it's like he can't make progressions in his reads AT ALL.... if his first guy isn't open, he runs the ball... if he feels even the slightest pressure, he runs the ball.... it actually reminds me of nealon greene, where he isn't even attempting to look for his 2nd or 3rd options... very disturbing

i'm a fan of reilly, but he has been horrific to start the season

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07-25-2014, 01:01 PM
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total happy feet this year.... there were a few times last night where the pocket was collapsing to the side and behind him and he stepped up, and i thought "thank freaking GOD, he's *finally* gonna step up into the pocket and make a pass", but he always ran the ball... i honestly can't think of one example of him stepping up into the pocket all season yet

it's like he can't make progressions in his reads AT ALL.... if his first guy isn't open, he runs the ball... if he feels even the slightest pressure, he runs the ball.... it actually reminds me of nealon greene, where he isn't even attempting to look for his 2nd or 3rd options... very disturbing

i'm a fan of reilly, but he has been horrific to start the season
I think you need to go to a game. You would see Reilly had few if any open receivers last night. neither QB did. Coverage was beyond solid. This was not a case of not getting reads or not dropping reads. Its more like what the hell play can I go with? That's what both QB's were facing.

If you wanted to complain about Reillys drop down reads in other games I'm with you. In this game there weren't any. Stamps was taking half the plays off barely able to walk let alone run. Bowman didn't get in sync, and Chambers and Guyton were the most consistent targets.

This is still a work in progress and I'm glad the team isn't peaking at the wrong time of year.

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07-25-2014, 01:16 PM
  #42
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I think you need to go to a game. You would see Reilly had few if any open receivers last night. neither QB did. Coverage was beyond solid. This was not a case of not getting reads or not dropping reads. Its more like what the hell play can I go with? That's what both QB's were facing.

If you wanted to complain about Reillys drop down reads in other games I'm with you. In this game there weren't any. Stamps was taking half the plays off barely able to walk let alone run. Bowman didn't get in sync, and Chambers and Guyton were the most consistent targets.

This is still a work in progress and I'm glad the team isn't peaking at the wrong time of year.
that could very well be the case for this game... but i highly doubt it was the case in the games against ottawa or winnipeg, where reilly was doing the exact same thing, aaginst inferior defences... this has been a problem all season so far, and that is what i'm complaining about... reilly has not shown the smallest of improvements in 5 games now

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07-25-2014, 01:38 PM
  #43
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Anyone remember about 2:25 left in Q3, the Calgary QB dropped back to pass and tossed it to his right and one of our defenders batted he ball down.

I was pretty sure that was a lateral pass. If it was it should have been a live ball but it was just whistled down. There was no replay on the big screen.

Anyone remember this play or have the game recorded and could comment?

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07-25-2014, 01:52 PM
  #44
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I could add a few more to the **** pile, like Waiting for the clock to run down before you decide to call a time out and burn about 5 to 10 seconds. How about shotgun on second and inches. This whole game was baffling.
The shotgun call and second and inches was brutal too. They fooled nobody with that one. I originally blamed Reilly on that one because he didn't get the ball away instead of taking the sack but it was just another bad decision. Stamps knew it was coming and brought everyone when they saw him in shotgun.

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07-25-2014, 01:56 PM
  #45
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Last night the team and the coaching staff made mistakes it cost them the game, no question.

I don't think the sky is falling because the Defense still did its job, but he Offense needs some work. The receivers weren't great and special teams, get your **** together.

I'm not happy with the loss, but the meltdown I'm seeing from some is a little over the top, they made some mistakes in game 5, and still could have won.
I think the meltdown is because of the way this team lost. Eskimos could have easily won this game and were arguably better but awful coaching decisions cost them the win. I think most fans thought the coaching was better this year and it's a bit of a shock to witness what we saw last night and realize that it might not be.

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07-25-2014, 02:33 PM
  #46
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Just as another comment that Grymes could have conceded the safety on that play anytime he was in the endzone and Jones mentioned that in postgame specifically and that it was what the play was about. Take it if you think its there. That was the instruction.

I love Grymes but he misjudged there. If you play it back theres also hesitation in his acceleration. He was thinking about what to do. In the end he decided to bring it out. Without a momentary hesitation he might turn that corner and get a lot more yds. He allowed Stamps the time to close the corner and stop the gainer.

From what I saw on previous punts Calgary sure wasn't emphasizing covering that kind of play. the thinking from the Esks is that could have been a big burn play there that went way farther than 16yds. A play like that can go to the house.

Still not defending the call but just introducing the extra dialog that took place.

From the game within a game also realize that when the Esks pull that kind of play opponents are going to be leary of bringing the house on a punt rush again. Do that against a fake and it is going to the house guaranteed. From time to time you pull plays just to keep opponents honest and so that in the game film theres lots of potentials they have to go over.

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Old
07-25-2014, 02:43 PM
  #47
Up the Irons
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I thought the fake punt was a dumb play, but now when I think a bit it, if they punt it, the Stamps get the ball at about the Esks' 40 yard line (maybe even the 30) with 35 seconds remaining. not much better, really.

Shaw might be part of the reason for the these calls. the guy is brutal.

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07-25-2014, 04:30 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Up the Irons View Post
I thought the fake punt was a dumb play, but now when I think a bit it, if they punt it, the Stamps get the ball at about the Esks' 40 yard line (maybe even the 30) with 35 seconds remaining. not much better, really.

Shaw might be part of the reason for the these calls. the guy is brutal.
With 10 seconds left and that field position after the punt, you are looking at 3 points as the worst case scenario. Always play to the clock unless you are losing badly and need a miracle come back.

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07-25-2014, 04:44 PM
  #49
Jimmi Jenkins
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Originally Posted by rboomercat90 View Post
I think the meltdown is because of the way this team lost. Eskimos could have easily won this game and were arguably better but awful coaching decisions cost them the win. I think most fans thought the coaching was better this year and it's a bit of a shock to witness what we saw last night and realize that it might not be.
You're right, they could have won, on a number of plays, hell Grimes hangs on to the INT late in the 4th the Esks probably win. But I like to think about it as a team was terrible in 2 of 3 phases of a football game, and still pretty much dominated. That's the Esks last night, it's a positive in my eyes, because the things from that games looked like mistakes, not systemic problems.

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07-25-2014, 08:24 PM
  #50
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Esks played well and are a vastly improved team, but Calgary is still formidable despite playing not their best game. A lot of luck went their way but it will come back at them eventually.

They are not stupid, they did sniff out some of the Esks tendencies and beat them at the Special teams and O-line protection handily.

They could well blow out the Esk in the next game as they are at home.

Esks better work hard to get more discipline into their game and improve their O-line protection.

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