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Mats Sundin VS. Daniel Alfredsson

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01-28-2012, 08:59 PM
  #1
camperjr
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Mats Sundin VS. Daniel Alfredsson

With all the attention alfie has been getting this weekend we started talking about him and the hall of fame. Eventually the conversation went to Sundin, as I am a Leaf fan. We had a good 20 fight about who was better. I am wondering what the general consensus is, who is the better player. I said now Sundin, but in 5 years and Alfie puts more points up it may gets closer.

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01-28-2012, 10:30 PM
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mrhockey193195
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First gut was Sundin for sure, but now that I actually think about it, Alfy has to be closing the gap. Both guys were good playoff performers and have tremendous international resumes, so I'll need some time to actually think this over.

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01-29-2012, 04:54 PM
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steveott
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camperjr View Post
but in 5 years and Alfie puts more points up it may gets closer.
Sundin is the best forward EVER from sweden (he wasnt juiced).
Alfie is very good but Sundin was something else. most underrated ever.

TOP 10 All Time (talentwise)

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01-29-2012, 05:02 PM
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Sundin is the best forward EVER from sweden (he wasnt juiced).
You mean Forsberg, right?

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01-29-2012, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveott View Post
Sundin is the best forward EVER from sweden (he wasnt juiced).
Alfie is very good but Sundin was something else. most underrated ever.

TOP 10 All Time (talentwise)
Sundin has the luxury of playing in the era when almost every team had a 100 point guy. Alfredsson didn't.

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You mean Forsberg, right?
This.

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01-29-2012, 05:08 PM
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I'd say they are about even. Maybe slight advantage to Alfredsson.

Sundin was remarkable in his consistency, and was a great goal-scorer and playoff performer. Alfie makes up the difference in offense by his superior defense.

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01-29-2012, 05:12 PM
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I'd take Sundin.

Alfie has closed the gap though.. prelockout I'd have him far below the list.. but he got to play with guys like Heatley and Spezza and really brought his game up to a new level.

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01-29-2012, 06:05 PM
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steveott
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Originally Posted by Reds4Life View Post
You mean Forsberg, right?
dont wanna name anyone about anything..

Alfie WORKS harder and maybe he is better athlete but Sundins overall talent and the very capability to make some out of nothing makes him greater imo. hes got 96 GWGs (somebody said that this stat must be wortless because sundin outperforms gretzky). well.. thats his opinion.

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01-29-2012, 07:29 PM
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Sundin. He had the ability to really dominate the play at times. Had he been a little harder worker his numbers would be much higher.

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01-29-2012, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveott View Post
Sundin is the best forward EVER from sweden (he wasnt juiced).
Alfie is very good but Sundin was something else. most underrated ever.

TOP 10 All Time (talentwise)
Trust me, nobody touches Peter Forsberg as our best forward of all time. Sundin is very well-liked for his performances in the Tre Kronor jersey and for his loyalty to his club, but as a hockey player Forsberg is on a different level entirely when it comes to Swedish forwards. Forsberg was widely considered among the top 3, if not the best player on the planet for a couple of years, something which Sundin has never been.

I would likely list Sundin slightly higher than Alfredsson though, and I'd probably squeeze in Sven Tumba ahead of Alfie as well.

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01-29-2012, 08:57 PM
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Sundin without question.

By sheer virtue of their positions even if they were equal, an elite centre is always more valuable than an elite winger.

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01-29-2012, 09:01 PM
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everyone knows that Forsberg did steroids?? This is the first I heard of it, and I can't even google "Forsberg steroids" and get anything.

Fill me in

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01-30-2012, 12:43 AM
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Sundin, without needing to look into it too much. Like others have said, Alfredsson is closing the gap. He is rapidly becoming a sexy pick for the HHOF in the future although he is far from a lock. Sundin has his critics too, but it is far harder to make a case against Sundin than Alfredsson.

I think people forget Sundin's remarkable consistency. The guy barely missed a game, never had a winger to play with until an old Mogilny showed up for a couple years and still was good for 80 points a year in a low scoring era. That being said, Leafs fans still gave him the business because it was thought he could never lead the Leafs to a Cup. Then again, Alfredsson will never win a Cup either.

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01-30-2012, 01:07 AM
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The guy barely missed a game, never had a winger to play with until an old Mogilny showed up for a couple years and still was good for 80 points a year in a low scoring era.
*70. He only hit 80 twice in his last 11 seasons.

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01-30-2012, 01:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Expert View Post
*70. He only hit 80 twice in his last 11 seasons.
he was aging and his line mates were getting worse and they normally were 3rd liners or aging vets themselves.


that said id be cool with both of them as hall of famers...

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01-30-2012, 01:49 AM
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Sundin didn't really have the luxury of playing with a supporting cast that included Hossa, Heatley, Spezza for over a decade when he was in Toronto, so when you consider a lot of Sundin's (superior) numbers are from playing on mucking teams for the most part, I think this highlights how much better Sundin was that Alfredsson.

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01-30-2012, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Der Kaiser View Post
Trust me, nobody touches Peter Forsberg as our best forward of all time. Sundin is very well-liked for his performances in the Tre Kronor jersey and for his loyalty to his club, but as a hockey player Forsberg is on a different level entirely when it comes to Swedish forwards. Forsberg was widely considered among the top 3, if not the best player on the planet for a couple of years, something which Sundin has never been.

I would likely list Sundin slightly higher than Alfredsson though, and I'd probably squeeze in Sven Tumba ahead of Alfie as well.
Agreed.
If I had to pick one of Sundin and Alfie to build a team around, it would be Sundin.

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01-30-2012, 10:32 AM
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Here's a nice little feautre on Alfredsson that aired on TSN a couple of days ago.


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01-30-2012, 10:44 AM
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Sundins backhand alone has him ahead of Alfie.

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01-30-2012, 05:50 PM
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*70. He only hit 80 twice in his last 11 seasons.
We're going that route are we?

Okay to be "technical" he averaged 78.6 points a season as a Maple Leaf. Not once below 72. Not to mention he was extremely healthy barely missing games.

You don't call this guy a perennial 80 point man throughout his career?

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01-30-2012, 06:56 PM
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BenchBrawl
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I would take Modano.

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01-30-2012, 07:13 PM
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Sundin and if I can choose Sundin it has to be him. Fairly high character does not place Alfie over Sundin's low character but superior talent.
What do you mean by character? Alfredsson had his share of dirty plays and poor sportsmanship from time to time. Still have no idea what he was doing firing the puck at Niedermayer (?) in the playoffs. Sundin left the Leafs and it was well within his right.

I'm tempted to take Sundin. Alfredsson was without question better defensively, but I wonder how inflated his top point totals were playing with the linemates he had. In his top scoring seasons, he had the luxury of playing with guys like Heatley and Spezza. And I imagine he spent some time with Havlat/Hossa. I don't think Sundin ever had that benefit. He put together Hall of Fame numbers largely through his own talent.

I hate how this makes it sound like I am trying to diminish Alfredsson's talent. I used to hate him, but after the performance he put on during the cup run (ignoring the aforementioned incident), I gained a LOT of respect for him. I honestly felt like he should have won the Conn Smythe that year.

Still, considering what they did with what they had to work with, I have to take Mats every time.

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01-30-2012, 07:29 PM
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What do you mean by character? Alfredsson had his share of dirty plays and poor sportsmanship from time to time. Still have no idea what he was doing firing the puck at Niedermayer (?) in the playoffs. Sundin left the Leafs and it was well within his right.

I'm tempted to take Sundin. Alfredsson was without question better defensively, but I wonder how inflated his top point totals were playing with the linemates he had. In his top scoring seasons, he had the luxury of playing with guys like Heatley and Spezza. And I imagine he spent some time with Havlat/Hossa. I don't think Sundin ever had that benefit. He put together Hall of Fame numbers largely through his own talent.

I hate how this makes it sound like I am trying to diminish Alfredsson's talent. I used to hate him, but after the performance he put on during the cup run (ignoring the aforementioned incident), I gained a LOT of respect for him. I honestly felt like he should have won the Conn Smythe that year.

Still, considering what they did with what they had to work with, I have to take Mats every time.
He would play with Hossa/Havlat on the powerplay, but all 3 being out there was not a common occurrence. They were all right wingers and all 3 played on different lines. Before Spezza, Alfredsson's frequent centre was Todd White while Hossa played with Bonk and Havlat played with Fisher.

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01-30-2012, 07:40 PM
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He would play with Hossa/Havlat on the powerplay, but all 3 being out there was not a common occurrence. They were all right wingers and all 3 played on different lines. Before Spezza, Alfredsson's frequent centre was Todd White while Hossa played with Bonk and Havlat played with Fisher.
I figured as much. It didn't make sense that three players who play the same position would see a lot of time together, but I do recall seeing Alfredsson with at least one of them from time to time throughout games.

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