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Old
07-30-2014, 10:54 AM
  #101
McBrom7
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
I have no doubt MacT is trying and will continue to try. I just don't think that matters in the slightest. What matters is if he fills the spot or not. If he doesn't, it means he didn't do his job well enough. No matter how hard he tried to do it.
I agree on the first part. It's not like he doesn't know that we need another center. I'm confident he'll find someone to play 2C whether it's in the organization or via trade.

In his defense, his clear mission this offseason was to add depth to our entire lineup. Added 2 NHL defensemen (something we barely had last year) and 2 depth forwards in Pouiot and Purcell. The problem with adding depth to our lineup is that it comes with the "Edmonton tax." Whether you like it or not; it's there. This can make a NHL GM's job very tough to fit a lineup in a capped world. It also makes it very easy for us fans to just say, "well he didn't do his job because he didn't completely fill out the roster." When in reality, he did a really good job in making a unattractive product (Oilers), an attractive product.

It's also worth noting that clearly Schultz's contract negotiations has held him up from being able to make a trade for the 2C.

IMO, and apparently others, Berglund is the best option. Stop gap 2C who plays 3C when MacT believes Draisaitl is ready for 2C duties. Then we have very good center depth with RNH, Drai, Berglund, Gordon down the middle.

Get Schultz signed, get Berglund, then call it a summer.

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Old
07-30-2014, 10:57 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by brom7 View Post
I agree on the first part. It's not like he doesn't know that we need another center. I'm confident he'll find someone to play 2C whether it's in the organization or via trade.

In his defense, his clear mission this offseason was to add depth to our entire lineup. Added 2 NHL defensemen (something we barely had last year) and 2 depth forwards in Pouiot and Purcell. The problem with adding depth to our lineup is that it comes with the "Edmonton tax." Whether you like it or not; it's there. This can make a NHL GM's job very tough to fit a lineup in a capped world. It also makes it very easy for us fans to just say, "well he didn't do his job because he didn't completely fill out the roster." When in reality, he did a really good job in making a unattractive product (Oilers), an attractive product.

It's also worth noting that clearly Schultz's contract negotiations has held him up from being able to make a trade for the 2C.

IMO, and apparently others, Berglund is the best option. Stop gap 2C who plays 3C when MacT believes Draisaitl is ready for 2C duties. Then we have very good center depth with RNH, Drai, Berglund, Gordon down the middle.

Get Schultz signed, get Berglund, then call it a summer.
Getting Berglund isn't like picking up milk at the supermarket, I haven't seen much inclination that St.Louis wants to trade him or needs to.

More likely we'll just sign Schultz and call it a summer. Arcobello, Lander, and Draisaitl will battle for 2 of the 4 center spots at camp.

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07-30-2014, 11:37 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Getting Berglund isn't like picking up milk at the supermarket, I haven't seen much inclination that St.Louis wants to trade him or needs to.

More likely we'll just sign Schultz and call it a summer. Arcobello, Lander, and Draisaitl will battle for 2 of the 4 center spots at camp.
I don't see why they would, they plan on playing him at LW anyways. I think the chances that the Blues shipped out Berglund were pretty slim, and now that Sobotka is gone that ship has sailed.

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07-30-2014, 11:43 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
I have no doubt MacT is trying and will continue to try. I just don't think that matters in the slightest. What matters is if he fills the spot or not. If he doesn't, it means he didn't do his job well enough. No matter how hard he tried to do it.
Filling the spot shouldn't really reflect on his job. What if he has done enough outside of that position to make up for the lack of a 2C? Kinda like the defense.

Not top d pairing so isn't that a fail?

2C shouldn't be what makes or breaks a GM.

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07-30-2014, 11:47 AM
  #105
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I don't expect anyone to be signed for 2C and I don't expect a trade to happen before late september.

But there is still alot of movement to happen around the league and you better believe Mac-T will be exhausting every option. Berglund right now might not seem expendable but they have about 2.7 in cap space and could probably get another 600,000 sending a guy like porter down without risking a waiver claim. so 3.3 to sign Schwartz which is doable but then you are right against the cap and all your cap flexability is out the window. You also have to take into account guys like Lindstrom, Jaskin, Rattie are all pretty close to being capable contributors in depth scoring roles at the NHL level and at a much cheaper price then Berglund.

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Old
07-30-2014, 12:56 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by rboomercat90 View Post
Maybe panic was a poor choice of a word. I'd like to see some urgency. Signing a free agent center near the money that's been given out in short term deals the last couple of weeks isn't a sign of weakness. Waiting to do something until November when you've fallen to the bottom of the standings would put him into a position of weakness though wouldn't it? That is unless he's already prepared to sacrifice another season. Which is kind of how Tambellini ran things. That's why I made the comparison earlier in the thread. I know a lot of you guys are convinced he will be able to get something done before the start of the season but what if he doesn't? We all assumed he'd do something last year and he didn't.
Fair enough. We'd all like to see action, but it has to be a good fit for the club and it has to be mutual with the player. You can't force these moves.

I'd have liked to sign one of Legwand, Riberio, or Jokinen, but for various reasons they didn't want to sign here. I'd rather wait for a deal to present itself, whether it's after camp, around Christmas, or next summer. This club is IMO in a sensitive spot right now. If we're talking actual hockey trades, I really think the wrong move could really set this club back.

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07-30-2014, 01:11 PM
  #107
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Didn't we see that Arcobello was able to handle 2C and fill Gagner's shoes last year? That's why Gagner was traded after all.

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07-30-2014, 01:24 PM
  #108
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MacT will get another C no doubt, to me it's just what kind of quality he can get. They were in on Jokinen and Ribiero, and MacT already said on one of his post FA interviews that they need to find another C.

Sure if he doesn't get one thats a fail, but theres really no reason to doubt that we will have another center of at least 3rd line quality before the season begins.

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Old
07-30-2014, 01:45 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by mangdas View Post
Didn't we see that Arcobello was able to handle 2C and fill Gagner's shoes last year? That's why Gagner was traded after all.
Not really

He got a push early, displayed terrible finishing skills despite playing so-so, and proceeded to trail off dramatically as the team started to improve before being buried for the rest the season in the minors. The Oilers weren't so deep at the center ice position last year that they couldn't have used someone who supposedly was able to handle the center role as some seem to believe he was capable of.

Gagner was traded because he was one of the weakest defensive players on the worst defensive team in the NHL, not because a minor league player did well for a month on a team that couldn't win hockey games with him in the lineup.

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Old
07-30-2014, 01:47 PM
  #110
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Not really

He got a push early, displayed terrible finishing skills despite playing so-so, and proceeded to trail off dramatically as the team started to improve before being buried for the rest the season in the minors. The Oilers weren't so deep at the center ice position last year that they couldn't have used someone who supposedly was able to handle the center role as some seem to believe he was capable of.

Gagner was traded because he was one of the weakest defensive players on the worst defensive team in the NHL, not because a minor league player did well for a month on a team that couldn't win hockey games with him in the lineup.
He also displayed the Arcobello curse. I don't know if anyone remembers or wants to backtrack threads, but every single time he missed a gimme goal to go ahead, or get the insurance, the other team would score and end up winning.

Every. Single. Time.

..

Well, like 90% of the time.

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Old
07-30-2014, 01:59 PM
  #111
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Fair enough. We'd all like to see action, but it has to be a good fit for the club and it has to be mutual with the player. You can't force these moves.

I'd have liked to sign one of Legwand, Riberio, or Jokinen, but for various reasons they didn't want to sign here. I'd rather wait for a deal to present itself, whether it's after camp, around Christmas, or next summer. This club is IMO in a sensitive spot right now. If we're talking actual hockey trades, I really think the wrong move could really set this club back.
I'm just concerned with the way this is looking right now. Last year we waited for a deal to happen too and then when we saw the lack of movement of quality players during the season it became accepted that these types of moves can't happen during the season anymore that they had to happen in the off season now. Well here we are at the end of July, the draft is over as is the bulk of free agent frenzy and nothing was done at center outside of shipping Gagner out. Maybe I'm wrong and I hope I am but my guess is this roster is set now and we sink or swim with what we have. I can't see any trade of any significance happening now and that's why I think Mactavish should have done more to sign a center during free agency. He threw a boatload of cash at Nikitin, Pouliot and Fayne. It's not like he didn't have any money to spend. He said the team was targeting those guys. I don't get why he wouldn't have targeted a center.

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Old
07-30-2014, 02:05 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by mangdas View Post
Didn't we see that Arcobello was able to handle 2C and fill Gagner's shoes last year? That's why Gagner was traded after all.
I wouldn't mind Arco as a 3C, but if we can acquire a 2C that gives us the option of sending Leon back to Juniors to develop.

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Old
07-30-2014, 02:24 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Filling the spot shouldn't really reflect on his job. What if he has done enough outside of that position to make up for the lack of a 2C? Kinda like the defense.

Not top d pairing so isn't that a fail?

2C shouldn't be what makes or breaks a GM.
Fair enough. If the Oilers are actually a good team next year. Colour me impressed. But there is an obvious black hole on the roster right now. One that MacT himself has identified as needing to be filled. He clearly doesn't think he's done enough for the roster yet. It's not good enough if all that ends up happening is he tried. People need to raise their expectations here a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
So if he were to trade Hall for Brayden Schenn, you'd be happy with that? After all, he's filled the spot, which is all that you say matters.
Yes. That is exactly what I'm saying. You nailed it. Your ability to pick up on the finer nuances of my post are astounding.

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Old
07-30-2014, 02:42 PM
  #114
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Arcobello is basically in Cory Conacher's situation. There shouldn't be a team pencilling this guy into their lineup, let alone their top 6. He could very well end up on waivers at some point this fall.

Edmonton's probably going to have to fill from within to start off the season. And honestly, that might be the kind of thing that really lights the competitive fire under guys like Arco, Lander, Pitlick, etc at training camp.

And as for Berglund...the guy JUST signed his extension. This isn't NHL 14. He's going to play in St Louis this year.

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07-30-2014, 03:10 PM
  #115
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Yes. That is exactly what I'm saying. You nailed it. Your ability to pick up on the finer nuances of my post are astounding.
Well I guess if you make a stupid statement, snark is as good a fall back as any.

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Old
07-30-2014, 03:13 PM
  #116
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I think the Oil need to trade J.Schultz over Petry right now. Guy holds more value and could be packaged to bring in a 2/3 centre. I don't think people realize how bad Schultz really was last year, he has zero defensive ability and I really don't see that much room for improvement on his defensive side. The reason I believe this is because he lacks competitiveness and urgency in his game and personality. Petry can at least play (decently) all aspects of the game and would be used more effectively on our second pairing, playing less minutes.

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Old
07-30-2014, 03:15 PM
  #117
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Tom Gulitti‏@TGfireandice·14 mins
Lou Lamoriello announces Devils have signed D Andy Greene to a long-term contract extension.

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Old
07-30-2014, 03:53 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by rboomercat90 View Post
I'm just concerned with the way this is looking right now. Last year we waited for a deal to happen too and then when we saw the lack of movement of quality players during the season it became accepted that these types of moves can't happen during the season anymore that they had to happen in the off season now. Well here we are at the end of July, the draft is over as is the bulk of free agent frenzy and nothing was done at center outside of shipping Gagner out. Maybe I'm wrong and I hope I am but my guess is this roster is set now and we sink or swim with what we have. I can't see any trade of any significance happening now and that's why I think Mactavish should have done more to sign a center during free agency. He threw a boatload of cash at Nikitin, Pouliot and Fayne. It's not like he didn't have any money to spend. He said the team was targeting those guys. I don't get why he wouldn't have targeted a center.
The way I'm starting to look at it is this; if the success of the season is riding on the addition of just one player then the Oilers are in rough shape no matter what.

I really don't think it's fair to point a finger at the Nikitin/Fayne/Pouliot deals as proof of MacTavish ignoring the issues down the middle. Those were all holes in the roster that needed to be filled, and I'm glad they were, the Oilers are a better team because of it.

What UFA's would you have signed to fill that role? Unfortunately I just don't see a mutual beneficial fit with the UFA crop this year. Would some of them made the team better? Sure. But like I said in my previous post, you can't force a deal.

I don't want to see them open a hole just to fill another, which has been happening for years. If the Oilers can't get the right player using surplus pieces (picks, d-prospects, expendable roster players, etc) then they shouldn't be making that move.

All I expect of the Oilers this year is improvement.

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07-30-2014, 03:56 PM
  #119
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The way I'm starting to look at it is this; if the success of the season is riding on the addition of just one player then the Oilers are in rough shape no matter what.
.
I see what your saying, but I can see how the season success could hinge on one guy. But in no way should a season hinge on a 2C.

A 1C or 1d or top line winger or a 1D, but a complimentary top 6 guy not so much.

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07-30-2014, 03:59 PM
  #120
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Not really

He got a push early, displayed terrible finishing skills despite playing so-so, and proceeded to trail off dramatically as the team started to improve before being buried for the rest the season in the minors. The Oilers weren't so deep at the center ice position last year that they couldn't have used someone who supposedly was able to handle the center role as some seem to believe he was capable of.

Gagner was traded because he was one of the weakest defensive players on the worst defensive team in the NHL, not because a minor league player did well for a month on a team that couldn't win hockey games with him in the lineup.
You conveniently left out that Arcobello trailed off when he was no longer getting top six minutes.

And Gagner was traded because MacT gambled on moving his salary and signing another centre, who we never ended up signing. If MacT saw what we ended up with after FA opened, I'm sure we never would have traded him.

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Old
07-30-2014, 04:05 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by ManofSteel55 View Post
You conveniently left out that Arcobello trailed off when he was no longer getting top six minutes.

And Gagner was traded because MacT gambled on moving his salary and signing another centre, who we never ended up signing. If MacT saw what we ended up with after FA opened, I'm sure we never would have traded him.
He still would have traded him, because moving him after the NTC kicks in would have been near impossible

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Old
07-30-2014, 04:05 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by ManofSteel55 View Post
You conveniently left out that Arcobello trailed off when he was no longer getting top six minutes.

And Gagner was traded because MacT gambled on moving his salary and signing another centre, who we never ended up signing. If MacT saw what we ended up with after FA opened, I'm sure we never would have traded him.
Don't think that was the case. MacT said that Gagner wasn't going to play center if he was here anyway. He ended up getting a winger who in MacT's eyes is a better fit than Gagner.

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07-30-2014, 04:08 PM
  #123
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You conveniently left out that Arcobello trailed off when he was no longer getting top six minutes.

And Gagner was traded because MacT gambled on moving his salary and signing another centre, who we never ended up signing. If MacT saw what we ended up with after FA opened, I'm sure we never would have traded him.
Yeah true but guys we need to calm down a little bit. Its the starting of August in 2 days there's still lots of time. I think the best time to trade for a centre is when the roster is set for all teams. Then MacT can look at if any teams have some players that are going to be left out or don't have a role. Yes its a gamble, but what else can we do? Our other assets that other teams will even look at are our core players which we don't wanna trade. MacT's in a really precarious position with our assets. The Gagner trade looks like its a win because of who we got in return, but we can't expect the same thing again. If we want that second line centre, it will have to be a gamble

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07-30-2014, 04:11 PM
  #124
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Not really

He got a push early, displayed terrible finishing skills despite playing so-so, and proceeded to trail off dramatically as the team started to improve before being buried for the rest the season in the minors. The Oilers weren't so deep at the center ice position last year that they couldn't have used someone who supposedly was able to handle the center role as some seem to believe he was capable of.
Would you agree that the sample size for Arcobello in a top six role in the NHL has been small?

I'm willing to give him a chance. He's done very well at the AHL level, hopefully it will translate.

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07-30-2014, 04:13 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
I see what your saying, but I can see how the season success could hinge on one guy. But in no way should a season hinge on a 2C.

A 1C or 1d or top line winger or a 1D, but a complimentary top 6 guy not so much.
Right now there's such an importance on centers that I think it really amplifies the situation. As much as it pains me to think of the Oilers starting the season without addressing it, the quality of the wingers may help alleviate the situation a bit.

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