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2014 - 2015 New York Rangers :: Roster building / proposal thread Part III

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Old
07-30-2014, 12:02 PM
  #26
BBKers
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
they probably sign someone or invite one to camp, Meuller is better in the AHL so they could use a cheap spare. Ideally Carcillo at 700K

that is 49 contracts though, they wont go to 50 so no Hayes
I think they may go to 50 and then do a smaller 2 for one trade to get back down to 49

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07-30-2014, 12:08 PM
  #27
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The Rangers have two contracts left. They aren't tying their hands with 50 SPC

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Old
07-30-2014, 12:15 PM
  #28
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what happens to Skejl if Staal is signed long term?.. sure he might take Moore's spot on the 3rd pairing, but isn't he much better than a 3rd pairing LHD?.. Yeah I know, he might never be as good as Staal, I'm just making conversation.. what would happen with him then?
You end up having an amazing trade chip in Staal to help back-fill somewhere else?

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07-30-2014, 12:17 PM
  #29
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You end up having an amazing trade chip in Staal to help back-fill somewhere else?
true, you could always trade Staal down the line.

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07-30-2014, 12:20 PM
  #30
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You end up having an amazing trade chip in Staal to help back-fill somewhere else?
That's how smart teams do it. Even when it doesn't work out, like Rozy for Wolski, it's just the right way to plan.

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Old
07-30-2014, 12:22 PM
  #31
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That's how smart teams do it. Even when it doesn't work out, like Rozy for Wolski, it's just the right way to plan.
Exactly. Sign good players to reasonable contracts and they are valuable pieces

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07-30-2014, 12:26 PM
  #32
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You end up having an amazing trade chip in Staal to help back-fill somewhere else?
That's only true if you don't also give out NMCs and NTCs like candy. Don't think for a second that Staal won't get the same protections Girardi got or better. It's a lot harder to get value back for a guy if he controls where you can deal him.

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07-30-2014, 12:27 PM
  #33
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^Very true, as long as we don't give him a NMC/NTC , then it becomes difficult to move them and still get good assets back.

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07-30-2014, 12:29 PM
  #34
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That's only true if you don't also give out NMCs and NTCs like candy. Don't think for a second that Staal won't get the same protections Girardi got or better. It's a lot harder to get value back for a guy if he controls where you can deal him.
That's a myth. Find me a trade where a guy's movement clause caused his team to get less than market value when dealing him. Besides, maybe, Dany Heatley... and I think the value in that deal was fine.

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Old
07-30-2014, 12:44 PM
  #35
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That's a myth. Find me a trade where a guy's movement clause caused his team to get less than market value when dealing him. Besides, maybe, Dany Heatley... and I think the value in that deal was fine.
Ryan Kesler, Jason Spezza, Jarome Iginla...

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07-30-2014, 01:03 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by truenewyorker View Post
Ryan Kesler, Jason Spezza, Jarome Iginla...
If you imagine those guys were traded in their primes, which they weren't, I could see how you could deem those package as insufficient.

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07-30-2014, 01:16 PM
  #37
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Ryan Kesler, Jason Spezza, Jarome Iginla...
Kesler was dealt for a player who outscored him last season, a bottom pair D, a 1st round pick and a 2nd round pick. I personally think Vancouver got the better of the deal there.

Iginla was a rental traded for a 1st round pick and two decently rated prospects. That's what rentals get you. Good deal for Calgary, really. As good as the Boston offer? No, I guess not.

Spezza was traded with one year left on his deal for someone I think will be a 20+ goal scorer every year, a decently rated prospect, a B prospect, and a 2nd. Dallas also gets a throw in player. For 80 point Spezza, Dallas wins the deal easily. For 60 point Spezza, I'd say it was pretty close to fair.

Notice that Iginla, Spezza and Heatley all had their values drop after being essentially traded away before nixing the deal. That definitely plays a factor.

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Old
07-30-2014, 01:17 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
You end up having an amazing trade chip in Staal to help back-fill somewhere else?
Thats a bit of a happy path.

Because, after all, why would the team want to trade him if all is going well?

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Old
07-30-2014, 01:18 PM
  #39
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If Staal can't be signed first place I'm looking to deal him to would be the Ducks.

Anyone think a good package would be somewhere along the lines of:

Kyle Palmieri($1,466.667)
or
Emerson Etem($870.000)
plus
Sami Vatanen($1,262.500)

maybe add a pick but if he got to go lets get some players who can cover his spot and minutes plus adding youth.

When it's all said and done if we need to re-sign all of our players 1 of Staal or G are most likely going to be traded--would anyone do the same package for G if we can sign Staal.

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07-30-2014, 01:20 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by howztheglass View Post
If Staal can't be signed first place I'm looking to deal him to would be the Ducks.

Anyone think a good package would be somewhere along the lines of:

Kyle Palmieri($1,466.667)
or
Emerson Etem($870.000)
plus
Sami Vatanen($1,262.500)

maybe add a pick but if he got to go lets get some players who can cover his spot and minutes plus adding youth.

When it's all said and done if we need to re-sign all of our players 1 of Staal or G are most likely going to be traded--would anyone do the same package for G if we can sign Staal.
I almost forgot--add cap space to help sign our FA's.

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Old
07-30-2014, 01:38 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by howztheglass View Post
I almost forgot--add cap space to help sign our FA's.
See, heres the rub, everyone is so worried about signing our pending free agents, but the reality of the situation is that Staal and Girardi are more important players than most of them.

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07-30-2014, 01:44 PM
  #42
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I'd be okay with Carcillo as that last forward. Sub him in for Lombardi some nights if you want a tougher look

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Old
07-30-2014, 02:19 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
That's a myth. Find me a trade where a guy's movement clause caused his team to get less than market value when dealing him. Besides, maybe, Dany Heatley... and I think the value in that deal was fine.
Bouwmeester, Spezza, Nash.

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07-30-2014, 02:52 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
Bouwmeester, Spezza, Nash.
Nash cost 4 assets, including 2 NHL roster players and a 1st round pick. Not exactly a bargain.

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Old
07-30-2014, 02:54 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
Bouwmeester, Spezza, Nash.
Nash got exactly what he was worth. Spezza I addressed earlier in the thread.

Bouwmeester... rental for a number 1 pick, a prospect and the rights to a goalie overseas. Sounds about right to me. It's not like Bouwmeester was regarded as a #1 defenseman by then.

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Old
07-30-2014, 03:00 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
See, heres the rub, everyone is so worried about signing our pending free agents, but the reality of the situation is that Staal and Girardi are more important players than most of them.
I agree with you--just saying if you know he's going to walk--you don't let a player like that go without a return.

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Old
07-30-2014, 03:18 PM
  #47
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I agree with you--just saying if you know he's going to walk--you don't let a player like that go without a return.
sometimes you lose guys and don't get anything for it...otherwise there would be no decent UFAs out there. If you are a contending team and can't get a return that helps you this year and next, which may often be the case, then you lose a guy for nothing, just as the Rangers did with Poo, Stralman and Boyle.

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Old
07-30-2014, 03:24 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Kesler was dealt for a player who outscored him last season, a bottom pair D, a 1st round pick and a 2nd round pick. I personally think Vancouver got the better of the deal there.

Iginla was a rental traded for a 1st round pick and two decently rated prospects. That's what rentals get you. Good deal for Calgary, really. As good as the Boston offer? No, I guess not.

Spezza was traded with one year left on his deal for someone I think will be a 20+ goal scorer every year, a decently rated prospect, a B prospect, and a 2nd. Dallas also gets a throw in player. For 80 point Spezza, Dallas wins the deal easily. For 60 point Spezza, I'd say it was pretty close to fair.

Notice that Iginla, Spezza and Heatley all had their values drop after being essentially traded away before nixing the deal. That definitely plays a factor.
Spezza used his NTC to block a deal to Nashville. Clearly Ottawa felt that the Predators put a better package on the table than Dallas did. Iginla blocked a deal to Boston. Heatley blocked a deal to Edmonton. How is none of this relevant?

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Old
07-30-2014, 03:25 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Kesler was dealt for a player who outscored him last season, a bottom pair D, a 1st round pick and a 2nd round pick. I personally think Vancouver got the better of the deal there.

Iginla was a rental traded for a 1st round pick and two decently rated prospects. That's what rentals get you. Good deal for Calgary, really. As good as the Boston offer? No, I guess not.

Spezza was traded with one year left on his deal for someone I think will be a 20+ goal scorer every year, a decently rated prospect, a B prospect, and a 2nd. Dallas also gets a throw in player. For 80 point Spezza, Dallas wins the deal easily. For 60 point Spezza, I'd say it was pretty close to fair.

Notice that Iginla, Spezza and Heatley all had their values drop after being essentially traded away before nixing the deal. That definitely plays a factor.
It's not about who won the deal, though. That wasn't in question.

You said NTC don't cause the team to get less than market value.

That's simply not true, even by the sheer fact that a NTC inherently limits the destinations, therefore limiting the number of bidders to compete and drive the price up.

If 29 teams could potentially compete for the player, the return is likely going to be higher than if 1 or 2 teams are competing. NTC absolutely limits the return, even if the top players still net a handsome return.

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Old
07-30-2014, 03:35 PM
  #50
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Crap. Andy Greene re-signs with the Devils. I thought he would've been a good Staal replacement/upgrade.

Devils looking good this year, I think they make the playoffs provided Schneider gets his starts.

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