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07-30-2014, 01:07 PM
  #101
kingdok
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Originally Posted by ZeHockeyFan View Post
And exactly what's so calamitous about that? Didn't Chicago do that with Toews and Kane? St. Louis with AP? Ottawa with Karlsson?
Yes, and Toews and Kane just re-signed for 10.5 each, while Ottawa will unlikely be able to re-sign Karlsson because of internal cap. That leaves Pietrangelo and we'll see I guess.

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07-30-2014, 01:11 PM
  #102
Karl Eriksson
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Yes, and Toews and Kane just re-signed for 10.5 each, while Ottawa will unlikely be able to re-sign Karlsson because of internal cap. That leaves Pietrangelo and we'll see I guess.
Karl is signed through the 2018-19 season. Do we already need to start worrying about re-signing him. Christ.

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07-30-2014, 01:13 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by ZeHockeyFan View Post
And exactly what's so calamitous about that? Didn't Chicago do that with Toews and Kane? St. Louis with AP? Ottawa with Karlsson?



Errr..what?
uhh.. then at 28 years old they cash in BIG time just like Kane and toews at both 10.5m?

28 = pretty much in their prime years... they will get paid

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07-30-2014, 01:13 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by TGV View Post
Yes, and Toews and Kane just re-signed for 10.5 each,
Welcome to the future. PK is also going to command that amount some day and get it.

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while Ottawa will unlikely be able to re-sign Karlsson because of internal cap.
Argument made in hindsight. That said, you don't know how things will shape up in 2018-19 for the Senators.


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That leaves Pietrangelo and we'll see I guess.
He will ask for $9-10M when his contract is up. As will Karlsson. If their respective teams don't pay up, someone else will.

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07-30-2014, 01:15 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Karl Eriksson View Post
Karl is signed through the 2018-19 season. Do we already need to start worrying about re-signing him. Christ.
For the purpose of this discussion, yes.

I'm just explaining the advantage of a bridge deal followed by a long-term deal, as opposed to those 6-7 years deal following the ELC.

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07-30-2014, 01:16 PM
  #106
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uhh.. then at 28 years old they cash in BIG time just like Kane and toews at both 10.5m?

28 = pretty much in their prime years... they will get paid
Yes, everyone cashes in at some point in time. What's your point again?

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07-30-2014, 01:18 PM
  #107
Karl Eriksson
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Originally Posted by TGV View Post
For the purpose of this discussion, yes.

I'm just explaining the advantage of a bridge deal followed by a long-term deal, as opposed to those 6-7 years deal following the ELC.
If your argument is predicted on predicting where things will stand in 5 years, then it's a bad one.

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07-30-2014, 01:18 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by TGV View Post
For the purpose of this discussion, yes.

I'm just explaining the advantage of a bridge deal followed by a long-term deal, as opposed to those 6-7 years deal following the ELC.
It's very convenient for you to invoke the EK deal now because of Ottawa's current internal cap. Talk about it in 2018-19 when there might not be an internal cap and Ottawa might be able to re-sign him when the cap is a lot higher along with player salaries.

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07-30-2014, 01:19 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by ZeHockeyFan View Post
Yes, everyone cashes in at some point in time. What's your point again?
so Subban will cash in now at about 8-9m while these other guys will cash in at 10-11 MAYBE even 12m if the cap rises a lot?

thats my point... big difference here

also im not against what you're saying.. I would have given Subban the contract he wanted any day of the week

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07-30-2014, 01:19 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by ZeHockeyFan View Post
Welcome to the future. PK is also going to command that amount some day and get it.
If Subban sign a 8 years deal, he'll be 33 by the end of his contract. This is usually nearing the end of the prime. Of course there are exceptions and I hope PK is one.

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07-30-2014, 01:22 PM
  #111
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I don't understand why they aren't offering something like 9.5M x 8 years and just lock the guy in and be happy to have him. Signing your best player is supposed to be one of the easiest things a team has to do.

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07-30-2014, 01:23 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by ZeHockeyFan View Post
It's very convenient for you to invoke the EK deal now because of Ottawa's current internal cap. Talk about it in 2018-19 when there might not be an internal cap and Ottawa might be able to re-sign him when the cap is a lot higher along with player salaries.
They might not be one and I hope for Sens fans sake there isn't one. But then he still have to re-sign right in the middle of his prime years.

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07-30-2014, 01:24 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by CaptainIginla View Post
so Subban will cash in now at about 8-9m while these other guys will cash in at 10-11 MAYBE even 12m if the cap rises a lot?
We don't know that. Looks to me (with his demand for $8.5M for 1 year) like he pretty much wants to cash in at $10-11M down the road. Subban's agent is no idiot. With Kane-Toews setting a precedent, I'm sure he wants an equally lucrative deal for his client.

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thats my point... big difference here
Whether it's big or small is dependent upon the %age of cap-hit. I wouldn't be surprised if Subban is a $10M/year defenseman, but it won't be that big of a deal considering the salary cap is projected to go up.

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07-30-2014, 01:25 PM
  #114
Karl Eriksson
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Originally Posted by TGV View Post
They might not be one and I hope for Sens fans sake there isn't one. But then he still have to re-sign right in the middle of his prime years.
But in the meantime the team can allocate more $ to other players, and make the team more competitive overall

I don't see where you are going here.

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07-30-2014, 01:28 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by TGV View Post
If Subban sign a 8 years deal, he'll be 33 by the end of his contract. This is usually nearing the end of the prime. Of course there are exceptions and I hope PK is one.
Which is why he will cash in big time now if he signs a long-term deal. However, from the looks of it (as stated in my previous response), he definitely does not want to cash in for a long-term deal right now.

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They might not be one and I hope for Sens fans sake there isn't one. But then he still have to re-sign right in the middle of his prime years.
Well, it's a problem which will be dealt with when the time comes. 5 years is a long time in hockey.

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07-30-2014, 01:30 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by ZeHockeyFan View Post
Which is why he will cash in big time now if he signs a long-term deal. From the looks of it (as stated in my previous response), he definitely does not want to cash in for a long-term deal right now.
I disagree.

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Originally Posted by ZeHockeyFan View Post
Well, it's a problem which will be dealt with when the time comes. 5 years is a long time in hockey.
which can be foreseen.

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07-30-2014, 01:32 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by TGV View Post
They might not be one and I hope for Sens fans sake there isn't one. But then he still have to re-sign right in the middle of his prime years.
There is no internal budget to keep Senators players, Melnyk just doesn't want to pay free agents big money when the Senators aren't Stanley cup contenders.

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07-30-2014, 01:33 PM
  #118
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I disagree.
Agree to disagree then.


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which can be foreseen.
You foresaw Nill building Dallas' top-six center depth in 14 months? Really? Nothing is ever concrete in sports...definitely not over a 60 month period.

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07-30-2014, 01:35 PM
  #119
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Agree to disagree then.




You foresaw Nill building Dallas' top-six center depth in 14 months? Really? Nothing is ever concrete in sports...definitely not over a 60 month period.
That has nothing to do with subject of the matter, which is length and timing of contracts.

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07-30-2014, 01:35 PM
  #120
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He's worth a **** load. Wish he was on my team.

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07-30-2014, 01:36 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by GreatStateofHockey View Post
There is no internal budget to keep Senators players, Melnyk just doesn't want to pay free agents big money when the Senators aren't Stanley cup contenders.
have a link to that so I can educate myself more?

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07-30-2014, 01:36 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Karl Eriksson View Post
Karl is signed through the 2018-19 season. Do we already need to start worrying about re-signing him. Christ.
Well the discussion will come up in 2017-18, the year before his last year, like with Spezza.

Sens have 2014-15, 2015-16, 2016-2017 of not needing to worry about re-signing him.

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07-30-2014, 01:36 PM
  #123
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Dumb move by the Habs. He took a cut on the bridge deal thinking now they would pay up. Then they basically slap him in the face going into arbitration.

Much better chance now he won't sign a long term deal imo.

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07-30-2014, 01:37 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by TGV View Post
That has nothing to do with subject of the matter, which is length and timing of contracts.
It has to do with addressing the fluid nature of how things shape up in sports. Karlsson could very well be expendable and be replaced by a better player by 2018-19 for all we know. Or Ottawa could field a cup-winning team by then and Karlsson could take a pay-cut to stay with a contender. Nothing is ever certain over such a long period.

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07-30-2014, 01:40 PM
  #125
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I really don't understand why people think this is how you negotiate. I work in an industry and position that is heavily involved in negotiations. There a difference between trying to slightly low ball and spewing out rediculous numbers. If I was Subban in his situation, I'd be totally insulted by that offer. As a matter of fact, I've seen negotiations completley collapse in cases like that, where one party's valuation and initial offer is out to lunch.

If I'm the habs, I would have started at 6.35 with a goal of presenting a case that would result in 7-7.75 a year long term. At least as that's a reasonable, all be it low number. That give pleanty of room to play with and avoids potential hard feelings.
Exactly, if you low ball someone too much they just get insulted and hold a grudge in future negotiations.

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