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Old
08-02-2014, 04:22 PM
  #26
NoNecksCurse
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
Agreed to an extent, but the market is completely different now. We're seeing guys like Brassard get $5m per. Subban just got more than Weber over 8 years, and there is no way he is better than Weber. The most recent CBA is making cap hits seem more inflated than they are.

4 years at 12 million total. Make it so!
it really is crazy.. i just don't think ellis' body of work is more than a third pairing defenseman at this point. he will always be undersized in a league constantly getting bigger and stronger and faster. pay him like a 3rd pairing defenseman on a 2 year deal (1.5 AAV) or go for a long term contract looking to keep his hit low. i think a 2 year deal worth 3 million is what we see and see how he progresses and look to lock him up similar to a josi contract after the 2 years of progressing or maybe he regresses.

btw for 4 years, I'd give him 10 million total. I'm not convinced on ellis just yet. wouldn't even really be thrilled about 10 million either but if it got the deal done I'd probably give in if i was DP


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08-02-2014, 04:25 PM
  #27
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I agree that he is best as a third pairing guy. He can fill in on the second pairing if we need him to, which makes him more valuable. His size is the only real concern in that regard, and he knows it. He knows he has the skills to be a #4 defender, too. And if his agent is smart he knows how insane the market is right now.

$3m for a third pairing defender was insane not that long ago. It isn't so much insane now, and since we just signed three centers for very little money I think we can toy around a bit with the contract Ellis gets.

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Old
08-02-2014, 04:35 PM
  #28
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I wouldn't be that upset with your mentioned deal but these contracts are just insane regardless of current cap and i think that deal has potential to burn us. I'm content with an ekholm type deal.

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08-02-2014, 05:20 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by NoNecksCurse View Post
I wouldn't be that upset with your mentioned deal but these contracts are just insane regardless of current cap and i think that deal has potential to burn us. I'm content with an ekholm type deal.
Agree. We do have 11 contracts up next summer. Need to have as much space as possible.

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08-02-2014, 05:27 PM
  #30
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All of a sudden the weber deal looks like a steal after what subban got paid. Also weber only gets 1.5 more than phaneuf! Haha. Phaneuf!! Lol.

I think Ellis is going to be pretty damn solid for us for years to come. He already started showing that last season and is still very young. He is offensive minded and so is laviolette so I see him only getting better.

If we sign him it should 3 years or like 7 years IMO.

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08-02-2014, 05:33 PM
  #31
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webers deal was in a completely different era as far as contracts. not really comparable and the last years on his deal are just to bring the cap hit down. I'd rather him be signed to PKs deal instead of all the signing bonuses he will get.

and webers cap hit is only around $857,000 higher than phaneufs

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08-02-2014, 06:04 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
I wouldn't mind seeing Ellis at 3 years at 1.8 million per. Then we still have him rfa after contract. Then ekholm and him don't both come up for new deals the same offseason.

Speaking of ekholm, his new two year deal doesn't run him to ufa status correct?
according to capgeek he will still be RFA (he will be 26 when his contract expires)

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08-03-2014, 02:46 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by NoNecksCurse View Post
webers deal was in a completely different era as far as contracts. not really comparable and the last years on his deal are just to bring the cap hit down. I'd rather him be signed to PKs deal instead of all the signing bonuses he will get.

and webers cap hit is only around $857,000 higher than phaneufs
We have paid out his bonuses, that's over. He's an insane bargain now at 8.5 million locked up for his career. I don't understand why you would rather weber make pk money, he's way better and locked up for less.

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08-03-2014, 03:26 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
We have paid out his bonuses, that's over. He's an insane bargain now at 8.5 million locked up for his career. I don't understand why you would rather weber make pk money, he's way better and locked up for less.
signing bonuses and length. webers cap hit will be 8 million till he is 40

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08-03-2014, 03:30 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
We have paid out his bonuses, that's over. He's an insane bargain now at 8.5 million locked up for his career. I don't understand why you would rather weber make pk money, he's way better and locked up for less.
Actually Weber is due 29 mil more in bonus.

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08-03-2014, 03:50 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoNecksCurse View Post
webers deal was in a completely different era as far as contracts. not really comparable and the last years on his deal are just to bring the cap hit down. I'd rather him be signed to PKs deal instead of all the signing bonuses he will get.

and webers cap hit is only around $857,000 higher than phaneufs
Honestly, why would you care one way or another? The owners haven't said it's why we haven't spent more money, ever. In fact they said we'd be cap team after signing Weber.

As of right now Weber is owed a total of 69m. He will get a total of what 63 million over the next 8 years, including the bonuses. Over the next 11 years, he'll average 6.27m a year.

Next year he will get another 12m and then 8m the following 2 years as a bonus. His regular season salary this year and next is only 1m, after that it goes up to 4m for 2 years and then it stays at 6m for 4 years in the years there are no bonuses, after that it drops down to 3m one year and 1m for the last 3 years.

Weber's contract is now pretty good since 41m of the 110m has already been paid.

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08-03-2014, 06:04 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Honestly, why would you care one way or another? The owners haven't said it's why we haven't spent more money, ever. In fact they said we'd be cap team after signing Weber.

As of right now Weber is owed a total of 69m. He will get a total of what 63 million over the next 8 years, including the bonuses. Over the next 11 years, he'll average 6.27m a year.

Next year he will get another 12m and then 8m the following 2 years as a bonus. His regular season salary this year and next is only 1m, after that it goes up to 4m for 2 years and then it stays at 6m for 4 years in the years there are no bonuses, after that it drops down to 3m one year and 1m for the last 3 years.

Weber's contract is now pretty good since 41m of the 110m has already been paid.
why would i care? because I'm a fan of this team to get that out of the way...

and yeah I'm not paying the money but i think it's naive to say the way it's structured is having zero impact on finances but aside from that and the biggest point for me is the length of the contract .. he will be 40 years old with an 8 million cap hit. much rather bump up the AAV to 9 million in a cap going up and the contract be up around 34-35 years old than be saddled with it regardless of where shea's at in his career

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08-03-2014, 06:07 PM
  #38
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anyways seeing that my post was completely off topic, i think we sign ellis to a 2 year deal and see where him and ekholm are at that summer and look to lock them both up long term.

ellis signs 2 year deal worth 3.25 million - 1.5 million the 1st year, 1.75 million the 2nd year

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08-04-2014, 06:40 PM
  #39
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I want Ellis signed up for sure, he is valuable to our team, but I wonder what kind of value he would actually hold in a trade.

I don't think he would hold enough value to move him to be honest. He will still develop nicely and is worth the wait.

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08-10-2014, 09:38 PM
  #40
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Neither side even filed for arbitration, so this could go on for a while yet. If Ryan Ellis changed his position to center, Poile would sign him in a heartbeat.

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08-11-2014, 01:30 PM
  #41
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Per Cooper

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Originally Posted by JoshuaCooper @JoshuaCooper
It's my understanding that the #preds and Ryan Ellis are still not close to a deal. At least as of this AM...

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08-11-2014, 02:47 PM
  #42
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If memory serves me Ellis has a QO of 850k which is not close to what his contract is going to be. I suspect since neither filed for arbitration that it could well be term that is the issue. But which side is the sticking point on term? He is due a significant raise and if Poile is sold on keeping him here long term ya have to think its Poile thats is wanting term for slightly less money just like he did with Josi and Klein. Ellis may just be wanting a bridge contract to get him to F/A. But if Cooper said there not close to a contract one could expect a deal announced today or tomorrow.

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08-11-2014, 04:10 PM
  #43
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Ellis has zero leverage. His only option is to hold out, which would be stupid. Im sure each side is waiting for the other to budge. Poile probably is offering 2 years 2 mil or maybe even 3 years 3 mil total.

Ellis is porobably asking for 2 yrs 3 mil or something like that.

In the end, Ellis will sign for something close to what Poile wants to give.

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08-11-2014, 04:55 PM
  #44
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At this point it is curious. He was given a QO apparently has not accepted that. He did not file for arbitration even more curious. I believe at some point if he is not signed he could be offer sheeted. Im sure one of the guys that are more in depth on the contract can clarify but its in a weird position right now. The same thing with Beck hes still unsigned as well as far as I can tell. Could they be pieces of a trade? We are what 5 weeks or so before camp starts. Theres gotta be something unless Poile is ok to just let them both walk.

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08-11-2014, 06:12 PM
  #45
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You have to wonder if there's something going on in that he doesn't want to play under Lavi?

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08-11-2014, 06:57 PM
  #46
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You have to wonder if there's something going on in that he doesn't want to play under Lavi?
I highly, highly, highly, HIGHLY doubt that's the case. He should be excited to play under Laviolette, seems like a perfect fit. This is no big deal, both sides are probably holding firm because there is no reason to rush at this point.

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08-11-2014, 07:15 PM
  #47
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Sounds like rocket fuel prices have gone up.
Meh, odd but not too worried.

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08-11-2014, 08:14 PM
  #48
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If he isn't signed in the next two weeks and we are all of a sudden less than a week away from training camp starting then we should be concerned. Although it is odd he isn't signed yet as all of our other loose ends are tied up. And it's not like they are negotiating millions of dollars in difference.

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08-11-2014, 09:06 PM
  #49
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If he isn't signed in the next two weeks and we are all of a sudden less than a week away from training camp starting then we should be concerned. Although it is odd he isn't signed yet as all of our other loose ends are tied up. And it's not like they are negotiating millions of dollars in difference.
Unless Ellis hit a growth spurt this summer and gained some height, I wouldn't be concerned with his contract status.

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08-11-2014, 10:09 PM
  #50
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He'll be signed. No urgency for either side right now since money isn't being paid yet

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