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Edmonton Oilers: Wait and See at 2C

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08-04-2014, 05:50 PM
  #101
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It's bad center depth for the time being, but long term the Oilers should be fine at center with RNH + Draisaitl.

The Oilers made due with less talent for like 15 years at 1/2C.
I have to say that RNH is the most talented Oiler Centre since Gretz and Mess. I love Doug Weight but RNH is amazing. I think this will be the first time ever where Leo has talented wingers he can trust.

My expectations are low for the team but i think we will finish around 20th in the league. If we were in the east, we are close enough that we could play meaningful games into feb.

Since we are here in this spot...i am a huge supporter of seeing what the core does this year. This is their team. Also i have been hesitant to put the C on Hall...but i think next year he needs to get the C. The maturation of the core is strong.


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08-04-2014, 06:18 PM
  #102
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I agree 100% that by not building down the center we are in bad shape. Building from the wingers in seem... suicidal.

But even centers can be, and most often are, built from within. Not usually a #2 and #3/4 in one year but it is not like we have three 18 years olds fighting for those two jobs.

One very talented and big 19 year old when the season starts.

One promising 26 year old that looks to have broken the AHL and had a successful small stint in the bigs.

One promising 23 year old that has been in and out of the Bigs and just needs to take that last step for a full time gig.

Good, no. Bad... well yes, but we do have the wingers, defenseman, and goalies to help them survive and hopefully excel in the league. The coach just has to build the system around our weaknesses and our strengths as best as possible.

I am not expecting a cup, or even a playoff appearance, but with this roster we should be able to lift our chins up a bit and be much more competitive than we have been for a long, long time.

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08-04-2014, 08:02 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Aerchon View Post
I agree 100% that by not building down the center we are in bad shape. Building from the wingers in seem... suicidal.

But even centers can be, and most often are, built from within. Not usually a #2 and #3/4 in one year but it is not like we have three 18 years olds fighting for those two jobs.

One very talented and big 19 year old when the season starts.

One promising 26 year old that looks to have broken the AHL and had a successful small stint in the bigs.

One promising 23 year old that has been in and out of the Bigs and just needs to take that last step for a full time gig.

Good, no. Bad... well yes, but we do have the wingers, defenseman, and goalies to help them survive and hopefully excel in the league. The coach just has to build the system around our weaknesses and our strengths as best as possible.

I am not expecting a cup, or even a playoff appearance, but with this roster we should be able to lift our chins up a bit and be much more competitive than we have been for a long, long time.
One positive from everything is that i seldom see junior centres that actually look like nhl centres. Most dont seem to look like their game will translate at pivot in the nhl.

Leon is one of few that when i saw him play i knew hed be a Centre in the NHL. Thats why i was happy we drafted him. Thats why i felt it was him or a d.

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08-04-2014, 08:04 PM
  #104
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Cs are more valuable than wingers. Expect Eberle, Klef and a 1 st going the other way for a Thornton.
For a 35 year old player on a team with Couture, Pavelski, and Hertl?

I think not. He's only going to be effective for maybe 2 more seasons.

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08-04-2014, 08:41 PM
  #105
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I have to say that RNH is the most talented Oiler Centre since Gretz and Mess. I love Doug Weight but RNH is amazing. I think this will be the first time ever where Leo has talented wingers he can trust.

My expectations are low for the team but i think we will finish around 20th in the league. If we were in the east, we are close enough that we could play meaningful games into feb.

Since we are here in this spot...i am a huge supporter of seeing what the core does this year. This is their team. Also i have been hesitant to put the C on Hall...but i think next year he needs to get the C. The maturation of the core is strong.
I would trade an RNH for a Doug Weight several times a day every day of the week. Including Sunday.

One was a very effective hockey player that was hard to play against and could play against the biggest meanest dudes and hold his own.

RNH has got steadily worse since rookie season and looks allergic to physical play.

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08-04-2014, 09:26 PM
  #106
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I would trade an RNH for a Doug Weight several times a day every day of the week. Including Sunday.

One was a very effective hockey player that was hard to play against and could play against the biggest meanest dudes and hold his own.

RNH has got steadily worse since rookie season and looks allergic to physical play.
I think when we got Weight he was basically the age RNH is now. I love Doug Weight but he also didnt need major surgery early in his career. I think RNH will be there.

I miss Doug Weight. He made the Oilers in the 90s what they were.

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08-04-2014, 09:37 PM
  #107
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Great post Aerchon. Pretty much reflects my sentiments.

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08-04-2014, 09:43 PM
  #108
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For a 35 year old player on a team with Couture, Pavelski, and Hertl?

I think not. He's only going to be effective for maybe 2 more seasons.
Apparently his price doubled from when he was traded in his prime.

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08-04-2014, 09:53 PM
  #109
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Cs are more valuable than wingers. Expect Eberle, Klef and a 1 st going the other way for a Thornton.
Hm, that sounds like an overpay. A player who could possibly out-perform the other player for the remainder of their contracts, AND is 11 years younger AND a 1st AND a blue chipper. Way too much.

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08-04-2014, 09:58 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Ovechking View Post
For a 35 year old player on a team with Couture, Pavelski, and Hertl?

I think not. He's only going to be effective for maybe 2 more seasons.
His point is that a true fix for this team would cost more than most people realize. Getting Thornton is not realistic.

Plus, if anything the incredible youth in SJ makes Thornton LESS expendable. If their cupboards were bare then they would be desperate to get some young players. Right now SJ is happy to keep Thornton to mentor their great young players and to ease their full NHL development. (exactly why we want him)

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08-04-2014, 11:27 PM
  #111
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To be honest I think they should just go with the roster as is. If there was a tangiable 1 year stop gap I'd be all for it, but it just doesn't look like there is one out there.

Arcobello at 2 PPG in the AHL probably has earned at least a 20 game shot here.

Draisaitl I would give 9 games and would spread that out maybe through the first 15 games of the season.

Lander probably should be given a look at too.

At the 20-25 game mark of the season there should be some centers available via trade or waivers if you need to send Drai back to junior.

It didn't work with Hall but maybe we should give one of Perron or Eberle a shot at center too. Who knows.

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08-04-2014, 11:56 PM
  #112
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To be honest I think they should just go with the roster as is. If there was a tangiable 1 year stop gap I'd be all for it, but it just doesn't look like there is one out there.

Arcobello at 2 PPG in the AHL probably has earned at least a 20 game shot here.

Draisaitl I would give 9 games and would spread that out maybe through the first 15 games of the season.

Lander probably should be given a look at too.

At the 20-25 game mark of the season there should be some centers available via trade or waivers if you need to send Drai back to junior.

It didn't work with Hall but maybe we should give one of Perron or Eberle a shot at center too. Who knows.
At the 20 game point last season this club had already fallen out of playoff contention.

This seems a poor strategy in which to start another season. Oh, but Eakins knows what he's doing this year, I read that somewhere, must be true..

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08-05-2014, 12:09 AM
  #113
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At the 20 game point last season this club had already fallen out of playoff contention.

This seems a poor strategy in which to start another season. Oh, but Eakins knows what he's doing this year, I read that somewhere, must be true..
The x factor there is Ramsay. It's sounding like it will almost be a co-coaching thing. Eakins has said that Ramsay has already taught him some things. That could be PR though. Ramsay also has interim coaching experience. If we're awful at the quarter-mark we have a fall back plan.

The other factor is that early season Eakins was a much bigger train wreck than late season Eakins. He stopped giving crazy minutes to our best players, and he toned down his swarm defense. So he is improving.

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08-05-2014, 12:21 AM
  #114
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At the 20 game point last season this club had already fallen out of playoff contention.

This seems a poor strategy in which to start another season. Oh, but Eakins knows what he's doing this year, I read that somewhere, must be true..
Last year i looked at our roster and said we would finish not out of a playoff spot but the bottomnof the league. MacT was so desperate for centres he was forced to keep and sign Gagner. After weeks of shopping him he couldnt trade the guy only to be left with a low return winger. MacT simply needed one more year of Gagner. He tried all summer to get replace dubnyk, who will spend his career in the ahl now. He signed anyone open to playing in Edmonton for defence.

This year our goaltending actually looks able to stop shots from cnetre and scramble and have some athleticism. Our defense is in a different world from last year. Still no tue top d but a much stronger collective unit that isnt even comparable to last seasons crap. Wings are deeper and have size and a cycle game. Not only are the wings not black holes but they provide a different type of game. Centre is even better than last year. Centre is at worst the same as last year.
Playoffs? No.
Improvement? DEFINITELY.

Wild card is really Leon. After watching a few PA games, i am excited to see him with actual talent to play with. Best of all he always looks like a centre. Most junior centres look like wingers. Aka Gagner on riding Kanes dominance.

And everything MacT said and did as a coach, and everything Eakins said and did as a coach...leads me to fully believe they arent just handing a spot to Leon and he wont always be getting minutes, and he will likely be scratched at times. Leon will likely make the team if hes in shape because i dont think his skills lose out to the others. But he wont be pushed too hard.


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08-05-2014, 12:55 AM
  #115
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Last year i looked at our roster and said we would finish not out of a playoff spot but the bottomnof the league. MacT was so desperate for centres he was forced to keep and sign Gagner. After weeks of shopping him he couldnt trade the guy only to be left with a low return winger. MacT simply needed one more year of Gagner. He tried all summer to get replace dubnyk, who will spend his career in the ahl now. He signed anyone open to playing in Edmonton for defence.

This year our goaltending actually looks able to stop shots from cnetre and scramble and have some athleticism. Our defense is in a different world from last year. Still no tue top d but a much stronger collective unit that isnt even comparable to last seasons crap. Wings are deeper and have size and a cycle game. Not only are the wings not black holes but they provide a different type of game. Centre is even better than last year. Centre is at worst the same as last year.
Playoffs? No.
Improvement? DEFINITELY.

Wild card is really Leon. After watching a few PA games, i am excited to see him with actual talent to play with. Best of all he always looks like a centre. Most junior centres look like wingers. Aka Gagner on riding Kanes dominance.

And everything MacT said and did as a coach, and everything Eakins said and did as a coach...leads me to fully believe they arent just handing a spot to Leon and he wont always be getting minutes, and he will likely be scratched at times. Leon will likely make the team if hes in shape because i dont think his skills lose out to the others. But he wont be pushed too hard.
Complete opposite. I had optimism last year knowing guys Perron, Gordon were solid, I was hoping Belov would be real deal (was never properly utilized, But then the gagner injury, Eakins ****canning the confidence out of Yak, Center woes, goaltending woes. Goaltending being the one area we've improved on. We're worse at Center. Jury out on D. A lot of people figure its an automatic we're better at D but that will involve coaching. I'm not convinced we have it.

REally after one year of seeing this idiot headcoach I'm currently incapable being optimistic about this club.

Eakins could coach the LA Kings out of the playoffs..

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08-05-2014, 01:02 AM
  #116
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The x factor there is Ramsay. It's sounding like it will almost be a co-coaching thing. Eakins has said that Ramsay has already taught him some things. That could be PR though. Ramsay also has interim coaching experience. If we're awful at the quarter-mark we have a fall back plan.

The other factor is that early season Eakins was a much bigger train wreck than late season Eakins. He stopped giving crazy minutes to our best players, and he toned down his swarm defense. So he is improving.
I really don't have the book on Ramsay. Knew of him as a player. I don't know a thing about what he's like as an assistant coach.
We don't got him in prime either. Guy is retirement age and with this club, which requires MASSIVE work I'd prefer somebody more at their peak.

That said maybe he's young for his years. Don't know a thing about him as an assistant coach. Just that anytime he was a head coach he crashed and burned.

Possible area of concern is somehow this guy doesn't have one game experience coaching in the WC. kinda weird actually. Whats the chances of being with several clubs and never in the WC. Especially when what we need is system and advice on how to play the WC.

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08-05-2014, 01:46 AM
  #117
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subject has been beat to a pulp, all I'm hearing from the "positive people" is we have some promise from a lot of unprovens (Leon, Arco, Lander). RNH is awesome but he's young for 1st line, banged up and forced to develop quicker.

now were gonna do the same to Leon.

For some reason, this management team has never been able to identify, recruit, or develop for many years for this position. All the repeated excuses from "Horcoff is a 1st line center" to all the other clowns they bring in.

Mact put career AHL's on the first line center position in the NHL as Coach.

Grabo has been available for a long time, others as well, Oiler management fail...again....

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08-05-2014, 03:26 AM
  #118
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subject has been beat to a pulp, all I'm hearing from the "positive people" is we have some promise from a lot of unprovens (Leon, Arco, Lander). RNH is awesome but he's young for 1st line, banged up and forced to develop quicker.

now were gonna do the same to Leon.

For some reason, this management team has never been able to identify, recruit, or develop for many years for this position. All the repeated excuses from "Horcoff is a 1st line center" to all the other clowns they bring in.

Mact put career AHL's on the first line center position in the NHL as Coach.

Grabo has been available for a long time, others as well, Oiler management fail...again....

Actually Mac T put the best centre the team had on the first line. The fact our best centres werent number ones was not his mistake. You roll what you have.

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08-05-2014, 12:07 PM
  #119
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To be honest I think they should just go with the roster as is. If there was a tangiable 1 year stop gap I'd be all for it, but it just doesn't look like there is one out there.

Arcobello at 2 PPG in the AHL probably has earned at least a 20 game shot here.

Draisaitl I would give 9 games and would spread that out maybe through the first 15 games of the season.

Lander probably should be given a look at too.

At the 20-25 game mark of the season there should be some centers available via trade or waivers if you need to send Drai back to junior.

It didn't work with Hall but maybe we should give one of Perron or Eberle a shot at center too. Who knows.
I pretty much agree. As much as I wanted this hole plugged via free agency, there weren't too many knock-your-socks-off options there IMO.

I think between Draisaitl, Arco and Lander, you've got a bit of time (15-20 games) to really see what you have in them and then go from there.

I'd like to see us bring in Mueller to training camp and see who's waived around that time, but really those aren't true 2C options - maybe 3C at best.

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08-05-2014, 12:16 PM
  #120
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Its difficult for an organization to develop younger talent when they do not currently have suitable personnel to do the job in the mean time. It would be the equivalent of having a new employee hired at any job and nobody to properly train them so they simply get thrown into the mix and have to learn on the job.

Not quite sure what many fans expect the organization to do. Of course they are trying to bring in more help via trades or signings, its not like waving a magic wand and getting what you want, people have to agree on the terms to come here or send players here. I understand the frustration, I'm a fan too but the opinion that the results are not there simply because management isn't trying or is too stupid baffles me.

Its going to take a lot of time and effort unfortunately on the backs of many young players before this team is in a position to attract necessary pieces to become competitive (and by competitive I mean competing for the cup) on a regular basis. I personally have already noticed a change in the things management is able to do, its starting to happen but it will take time.

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08-06-2014, 01:34 PM
  #121
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Johanson from Columbus. Problem solved. How I do not know.

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08-06-2014, 01:52 PM
  #122
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At the 20 game point last season this club had already fallen out of playoff contention.

This seems a poor strategy in which to start another season. Oh, but Eakins knows what he's doing this year, I read that somewhere, must be true..
Though I would pin that moreso on goaltending.

A lack of a 2C or a below average option there shouldn't throw a team completely out of contention.

Depends a lot too on if Nikitin and Fayne are legitimate upgrades on Belov and Smid/N. Schultz. A stronger d-corps will help settle the entire team down.

Eakins is a wild card, I have no idea if he really learned anything from last season and more importantly if he can implement meaningful change this season.

One would hope no longer being a rookie coach will cut down on a lot of the mistakes made last year.


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08-08-2014, 05:14 PM
  #123
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All aboard the McDavid express if that happens. Though RNH played in 80 of 82 games last year and 40 of 48 the year prior, so he's played in 92% of the games of the last two years.
Your forgetting that when a rookie gets hurt..HF logic states that hes injury prone...Ekblad concussion already hes doneski

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08-08-2014, 05:40 PM
  #124
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Its difficult for an organization to develop younger talent when they do not currently have suitable personnel to do the job in the mean time. It would be the equivalent of having a new employee hired at any job and nobody to properly train them so they simply get thrown into the mix and have to learn on the job.

Not quite sure what many fans expect the organization to do. Of course they are trying to bring in more help via trades or signings, its not like waving a magic wand and getting what you want, people have to agree on the terms to come here or send players here. I understand the frustration, I'm a fan too but the opinion that the results are not there simply because management isn't trying or is too stupid baffles me.

Its going to take a lot of time and effort unfortunately on the backs of many young players before this team is in a position to attract necessary pieces to become competitive (and by competitive I mean competing for the cup) on a regular basis. I personally have already noticed a change in the things management is able to do, its starting to happen but it will take time.
I hate that this team has had so many major holes now for so long that there are fans that refer to acquiring proven players for key positions equivalent to 'waving a magic wand'.
Seriously, posters here actually think its too much to ask to ice a team without a major definciency. Like we'd be spoiled if we had a 2nd line center because we already have 6 defencemen that are NHL-quality and legitimate 3rd line wingers.

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08-08-2014, 07:22 PM
  #125
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I hate that this team has had so many major holes now for so long that there are fans that refer to acquiring proven players for key positions equivalent to 'waving a magic wand'.
Seriously, posters here actually think its too much to ask to ice a team without a major definciency. Like we'd be spoiled if we had a 2nd line center because we already have 6 defencemen that are NHL-quality and legitimate 3rd line wingers.
Not sure which side of this u fall on. Your post is unclear.

Are you saying it should be easy to get a second line center? That even tho all teams run with at least a few unproven roster spots Edmonton shouldnt have to?

That fans should expect a roster full of proven vets and never need to develop from within?

That our current prospects are junk and don't deserve a shot?

Hope not :-)

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