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Would You Do This Trade?

View Poll Results: Would you do the trade?
Yes, as listed 3 2.61%
Yes, with small tweaks 6 5.22%
No 101 87.83%
Doesnt matter, Anaheim wouldnt. 5 4.35%
Voters: 115. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-01-2014, 10:39 AM
  #26
Inferno
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lemme also say im not advocating giving these guys away, i think thats a truckload of a return, and is at least somewhat realistic as compared to some of the other trade propsals ive seen.

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Old
08-01-2014, 10:44 AM
  #27
pld459666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
its 3 for 2. its not 1.5 for 1 and 1.5 for another 1.

The point of this trade is pretty obvious. it may not help us this year, but going forward you have some cap flexibility while getting some significant talent back.

Staal & MZA are going to command probably around 10 mil+ combined next season. Rangers still need to lock up Stepan, Hagelin, and re-sign MSL.

They are going to need the cap space going forward. You have a chance to get younger, quicker, and more cap flexible.

I just dont see the Rangers being able to keep both these players, possibly not either of them. To me, Stepan is still more important than either of them, and Hagelin is a tremendous player as well who i dont like the idea of losing. puck possession guy (i dnt have the numbers to back it up) but he seems to control the play.

MZA, while having a tremendous year, and is very talented, is still very small and is 1 big hit from being done.

People proposed trading Petr Prucha after his 30 goal year and were murdered up and down the board. im not saying MZA is the same situation, but it is worth noting sometimes you can trade a guy while his value is high.
I understand that it's 3 for 2, I just don't think you are assigning enough value to what we are giving up.

As I was pointing out, in breaking this down to what would be somewhat acceptable in terms of returns for both Staal and Zuccs on an individual basis I then looked at the remaining pieces and found the return to be lacking.

For what both Zuccs and Staal have accomplished on their own, either player is worth any two of the three players we would be gettign back in your trade scenario.

So, if you assign a little more value to the assets we get back on a 2 for 1 basis, is that additional value enough to make up for the significant difference the remaining deal would generate?

In the end, I understand that it's 3 for 2, but each asset has an assigned (perceived) value. I just don't think that the combined value of the three assets we get are enough to cover the combined value of the assets we are parting with.

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Old
08-01-2014, 10:47 AM
  #28
Inferno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I understand that it's 3 for 2, I just don't think you are assigning enough value to what we are giving up.

As I was pointing out, in breaking this down to what would be somewhat acceptable in terms of returns for both Staal and Zuccs on an individual basis I then looked at the remaining pieces and found the return to be lacking.

For what both Zuccs and Staal have accomplished on their own, either player is worth any two of the three players we would be gettign back in your trade scenario.

So, if you assign a little more value to the assets we get back on a 2 for 1 basis, is that additional value enough to make up for the significant difference the remaining deal would generate?

In the end, I understand that it's 3 for 2, but each asset has an assigned (perceived) value. I just don't think that the combined value of the three assets we get are enough to cover the combined value of the assets we are parting with.
fair enough.

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Old
08-01-2014, 11:32 AM
  #29
haveandare
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
its 3 for 2. its not 1.5 for 1 and 1.5 for another 1.

The point of this trade is pretty obvious. it may not help us this year, but going forward you have some cap flexibility while getting some significant talent back.

Staal & MZA are going to command probably around 10 mil+ combined next season. Rangers still need to lock up Stepan, Hagelin, and re-sign MSL.

They are going to need the cap space going forward. You have a chance to get younger, quicker, and more cap flexible.

I just dont see the Rangers being able to keep both these players, possibly not either of them. To me, Stepan is still more important than either of them, and Hagelin is a tremendous player as well who i dont like the idea of losing. puck possession guy (i dnt have the numbers to back it up) but he seems to control the play.

MZA, while having a tremendous year, and is very talented, is still very small and is 1 big hit from being done.

People proposed trading Petr Prucha after his 30 goal year and were murdered up and down the board. im not saying MZA is the same situation, but it is worth noting sometimes you can trade a guy while his value is high.
I like the idea in terms of cap flexibility and talent coming back. I just don't really agree that Zucc won't be able to be kept. Staal very well may not be able to be kept, and that sucks, but it's free agency and reports are very positive on Skjei right now. Zucc provide a type of offense that nobody else really does, and it's not like there's another creative, hustling RW ready to take that spot, or any RW at all who might touch 60 points. He's the type of guy they have to make room for.

Step is more important to me as well. Zucc is more important than Hagelin to me though, and I agree about really not wanting to lose Hags either as he has a very specific skill set that matches this team well.

Everyone is 1 big hit from being done. Size has little to do with it. I wouldn't trade an excellent player solely because he's small and the NHL is tough.

I just don't see a reason to not hold on to Zucc.

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Old
08-01-2014, 11:45 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Everyone is 1 big hit from being done. Size has little to do with it. I wouldn't trade an excellent player solely because he's small and the NHL is tough.
Agreed, silly comment by him. Zucc is actually an inch taller than MSL, whose had a long and successful NHL career.

Besides, Zucc is a tough little dude, he can handle it

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Old
08-01-2014, 12:04 PM
  #31
I Eat Crow
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Counter:

To ANA:

Hagelin
Staal

To NYR:

Devante Smith-Pelley
Sami Vatanen
2015 1st Rounder

No interest in Etem.

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Old
08-01-2014, 12:12 PM
  #32
TheTakedown
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no zucc...

Stall for any 2 of thsoe 3 and its a deal.

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08-01-2014, 12:43 PM
  #33
Made Dan
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No, but would do Staal for Vatanen +.

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08-01-2014, 03:23 PM
  #34
Mac n Gs
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Who are other defensemen, besides Vatanen, that could be dealt for Staal? I listed some names before but didn't get much of a response

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08-01-2014, 03:24 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
lemme also say im not advocating giving these guys away, i think thats a truckload of a return, and is at least somewhat realistic as compared to some of the other trade propsals ive seen.
Said no.

While agreeing generally with what you said, the abstract ? one always asks is:
"is this the best return I can get"
or
should I use these guys/as is/separately/packaged with others
and get a better return?

The return is not chopped liver due to Smith-Pelley. But not sure that is the best return, so no.

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Old
08-01-2014, 03:33 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by JeffMangum View Post
I don't think trading Zuccarello is an option. At least, it shouldn't be.
This.

I'd trade Staal, Brassard, and a 2nd rounder for those 3. Anaheim wouldn't though.

Perhaps Staal and Kristo/Haggerty for Vatanen and DSP. Again, I think there's no way Anaheim touches that.

I don't see the two teams being the best match for a trade right now.

Zuccarello was our leading scorer last season, and it was not a fluke. The guy is uber-skilled and he's playing with a new-found tenacity this time around with the Rangers. No way I trade him for anything less than absurd bernmeister-level overpayment (ie: Zuccarello for Eberle and Yakupov; or Zuccarello for Johanssen and Dubinsky)

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Old
08-01-2014, 03:37 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by nyrangers1472 View Post
Who are other defensemen, besides Vatanen, that could be dealt for Staal? I listed some names before but didn't get much of a response
I really like Ryan Murphy if CAR regains interest in adding the fourth Staal brother.

Staal and [one of Miller/Kristo/Haggerty] for Skinner and Murphy is a deal I'd probably do, even though Skinner is a whiny little *****. I'd take the gamble that he eventually matures just a bit. Ryan Murphy is a super-mobile offensive defenseman. He's tiny, but strong, and can really dissect a defense and break down coverages to create plays. He's right-handed, though I'm not sure if he's one of those rare d-men who plays their off-side. I know he does on the PP, but at ES he's likely a RD, so our D would look something like...

McDonagh-Girardi
Klein-Boyle
Moore-Murphy

Klein would have to switch to the left side and play with Boyle to make sure the 2nd pairing is reliable enough, and then Moore and Murphy together on the bottom ES pair.

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Old
08-01-2014, 05:56 PM
  #38
Kel Varnsen
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Change Zuccarello or Staal for Nash. Or just add Nash.

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08-02-2014, 12:08 PM
  #39
haveandare
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
Change Zuccarello or Staal for Nash. Or just add Nash.
Good idea.

"Hello Anaheim, please take 12+ million dollars of cap spending off our hands. In exchange, we'd like you to give us as much of your cost-controlled young talent as possible. Thank you."

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08-02-2014, 01:02 PM
  #40
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08-02-2014, 01:16 PM
  #41
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No. But it's closer than a lot of posters are making it seem.

For example: If at the deadline it's obvious that Staal won't re-sign, I would do Staal for Vatenen, DSP and a 3rd round pick. Anaheim probably wouldn't.

Zuccarello needs to be locked up long-term. I wouldn't explore trading him at all.

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08-02-2014, 02:29 PM
  #42
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Needs more Nash.

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08-02-2014, 03:52 PM
  #43
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What is with this boards obsession with Vatanen and Etem.

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08-02-2014, 05:21 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Eat Crow View Post
Counter:

To ANA:

Hagelin
Staal

To NYR:

Devante Smith-Pelley
Sami Vatanen
2015 1st Rounder

No interest in Etem.
No interest in their 1st, which will be a late pick.

We're not rebuilding. That's a rebuilding move.

Staal and Hagelin are much more valuable to us for our run this season, even if Staal walks.

The move is lateral at best. No thank you.

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08-02-2014, 06:57 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffMangum View Post
I don't think trading Zuccarello is an option. At least, it shouldn't be.
Amen. That dude is the kind of player we both want and need here. He's not our for a pay day. He wants to win HERE.

I should also mention that I am so obsessed with the smiths that I have the same glasses Moz wore back in the day. Your sig rules!

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08-02-2014, 06:57 PM
  #46
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Needs more Nash.
And you sir, Minor Threat and The Exploited!

I should post here more often!

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08-02-2014, 07:36 PM
  #47
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And you sir, Minor Threat and The Exploited!

I should post here more often!
Yes you should!

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08-02-2014, 07:48 PM
  #48
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And you sir, Minor Threat and The Exploited!

I should post here more often!
Auf has excellent taste in music, almost as good as mine

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08-02-2014, 10:52 PM
  #49
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Depends on context. If neither player will re-sign and the Rangers are rebuilding, they can get a mega package like the one OP is proposing. If they're in a playoff spot, I would say no.

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08-02-2014, 11:56 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
No. But it's closer than a lot of posters are making it seem.

For example: If at the deadline it's obvious that Staal won't re-sign, I would do Staal for Vatenen, DSP and a 3rd round pick. Anaheim probably wouldn't.

Zuccarello needs to be locked up long-term. I wouldn't explore trading him at all.
It's not that the value isn't close, but the trade just doesn't make sense.

I don't get the hype with Etem, at all.

DSP is a stud, but Zucc is the far better player currently.

Vatanen is great offensively but where does he fit? And Ducks fans would never trade him. They're obsessed with their young players, and for good reason.

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