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Old
08-01-2014, 10:50 PM
  #1
puck stoppa
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2014-2015 Lineup

Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
I'd personally trust Kane, MP and ? to take on tougher assignments than Wheeler, Scheifele and Buff.

That will be one of the biggest issues for this team IMO, finding players who can push possession.

Ladd and Little can do it. Frolik can do it. Kane can do it. MP has done it, but Buff the forward, Scheif and Wheeler are less proven in this regard. I do wonder if it would be wise to separate them some.
OK, let me get the blender out here and see what we get.
Kane Little Wheeler
Ladd Scheif Buff
Odell Perrault Frolik

Havent seen that one yet

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Old
08-01-2014, 10:56 PM
  #2
Holden Caulfield
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
I'd personally trust Kane, MP and ? to take on tougher assignments than Wheeler, Scheifele and Buff.

That will be one of the biggest issues for this team IMO, finding players who can push possession.

Ladd and Little can do it. Frolik can do it. Kane can do it. MP has done it, but Buff the forward, Scheif and Wheeler are less proven in this regard. I do wonder if it would be wise to separate them some.
Yeah I really disagree. I like Perreault but I do not want him taking any kind of tough matchups. He is a smallish and not that good defensively. And Kane is pretty terrible defensively. So even if Perreault wins the down low battles to get the puck out to wing you have Kane turning it over at the blueline (and if it's O'Dell that's a natural C that has not been amazing on wing needs time to adjust). Would not at all want that facing top competition.

This is a case where corsi and shot measuring would not tell the whole story. You have to think defensive zone responsibilities. Against weaker competition it'd be fine, but not against top competition.

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08-01-2014, 11:46 PM
  #3
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Why? In today's NHL there is no need for terms like "top 6". You can run 3 lines with relatively even es time. In fact I think it might even be beneficial for Kane to play on "3rd" line with Perreault and get some nice offensive minutes against weaker opponants as the other two lines will attract attention and play the tougher defensive minutes.
Agree wholeheartedly (and with others that are thinking the same thing). Kane and Perreault could absolutely feast on weaker matchups, if the other two lines are getting more attention. I would like to see:

LLF
BSW
Kane - Perreault - Galiardi/O'Dell

...as the top 9. An abundance of speed across three lines, and threats on all to score. Only thing that might vary is zone deployment and QoC matchups (where Maurice can get them, or if he cares about hard matching)

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08-01-2014, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
Agree wholeheartedly (and with others that are thinking the same thing). Kane and Perreault could absolutely feast on weaker matchups, if the other two lines are getting more attention. I would like to see:

LLF
BSW
Kane - Perreault - Galiardi/O'Dell

...as the top 9. An abundance of speed across three lines, and threats on all to score. Only thing that might vary is zone deployment and QoC matchups (where Maurice can get them, or if he cares about hard matching)
I can live with these lines.

L-L-F face the toughest opposition
*Shelter* B-S-W with Ozone starts
K-P-O/G take on weaker competition (at times) with mixed starts as they should be able to push possession relatively well

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Old
08-01-2014, 11:56 PM
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JC Numminen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
Agree wholeheartedly (and with others that are thinking the same thing). Kane and Perreault could absolutely feast on weaker matchups, if the other two lines are getting more attention. I would like to see:

LLF
BSW
Kane - Perreault - Galiardi/O'Dell

...as the top 9. An abundance of speed across three lines, and threats on all to score. Only thing that might vary is zone deployment and QoC matchups (where Maurice can get them, or if he cares about hard matching)
I like, but I still really want Kane-Scheifele-Wheeler to be a unit. I absolutely loved them when they were together last season.

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Old
08-02-2014, 12:11 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Yeah I really disagree. I like Perreault but I do not want him taking any kind of tough matchups. He is a smallish and not that good defensively. And Kane is pretty terrible defensively. So even if Perreault wins the down low battles to get the puck out to wing you have Kane turning it over at the blueline (and if it's O'Dell that's a natural C that has not been amazing on wing needs time to adjust). Would not at all want that facing top competition.

This is a case where corsi and shot measuring would not tell the whole story. You have to think defensive zone responsibilities. Against weaker competition it'd be fine, but not against top competition.
I am not saying MP is a defensive force by any stretch, but I believe he and Kane could take the puck up into O zone enough to match most quality lines.

Comment was less about their strength and more so centred on the fact that I think Buff, Scheif and Wheeler will be worse.

I also don't agree that Kane is terrible defensively. He was forced to do a disproportionate amount of defensive work when he was playing next to Olli. He was responsible for most of their breakouts.

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08-02-2014, 12:35 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC Numminen View Post
I like, but I still really want Kane-Scheifele-Wheeler to be a unit. I absolutely loved them when they were together last season.
Likewise. But that's the line that Maurice said had "too much speed".

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08-02-2014, 12:40 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buggs View Post
Likewise. But that's the line that Maurice said had "too much speed".
Can't have them going over the speed limit.

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Old
08-02-2014, 12:49 AM
  #9
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Originally Posted by buggs View Post
Likewise. But that's the line that Maurice said had "too much speed".
heh, I believe they call that a euphemism

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Old
08-02-2014, 12:49 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
Agree wholeheartedly (and with others that are thinking the same thing). Kane and Perreault could absolutely feast on weaker matchups, if the other two lines are getting more attention. I would like to see:

LLF
BSW
Kane - Perreault - Galiardi/O'Dell

...as the top 9. An abundance of speed across three lines, and threats on all to score. Only thing that might vary is zone deployment and QoC matchups (where Maurice can get them, or if he cares about hard matching)
We're not going to know till we see some games with combinations , but that grouping has the potential to weaken two lines imo . It may not , but I think it it is more likely than not . Even if the premise is to roll three lines pretty equally , they won't get the same minutes and if you slot Kane to the third line I think you are saying you're ok with him getting less minutes and I'm not , and the RW's aren't going to add much to whoever is with them.

It's not ideal by any means , I still prefer Buff on D , and if he is at W I don't know where he fits in best , for him and for the team.

A lot can be determined by how good MP is going to be , if he is the improving player we are hoping for ( and have seen in some cases ) then another step up with an talent like 9 may be enough to have a pedestrian RW .

Galiardi isn't going to add much offense and ideally would be a good 4th liner , which brings us back to O'Dell . In other words not a lot has changed , and not ideal as I said.

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Old
08-02-2014, 01:01 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maximus tacitus View Post
heh, I believe they call that a euphemism
Yeah, but they split up the line pretty much at that time and never did reassemble it (though Scheifele was injured a little while after that) so I remain confused (not unusual, I admit).

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08-02-2014, 01:09 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetkarma View Post
We're not going to know till we see some games with combinations , but that grouping has the potential to weaken two lines imo . It may not , but I think it it is more likely than not . Even if the premise is to roll three lines pretty equally , they won't get the same minutes and if you slot Kane to the third line I think you are saying you're ok with him getting less minutes and I'm not , and the RW's aren't going to add much to whoever is with them.
Where did I say that? If you go back to my other messages that discuss a potential 'top 9', I have ALWAYS suggested that this would work best in an even split of TOI, with the top TOI varying from game to game. 1A/B/C vs. 1st, 2nd, 3rd. I do not in any way consider Kane a 3rd line player.

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08-02-2014, 01:10 AM
  #13
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Originally Posted by JC Numminen View Post
I like, but I still really want Kane-Scheifele-Wheeler to be a unit. I absolutely loved them when they were together last season.
I liked KSF better but Frolik can only play on one line at a time. Damn I hope Chevy gets somebody good for him.

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08-02-2014, 01:21 AM
  #14
jetkarma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
Where did I say that? If you go back to my other messages that discuss a potential 'top 9', I have ALWAYS suggested that this would work best in an even split of TOI, with the top TOI varying from game to game. 1A/B/C vs. 1st, 2nd, 3rd. I do not in any way consider Kane a 3rd line player.
You didn't say that , I said and say that. I don't think they actually would get equal minutes , the goal may be to do that but I doubt it happens. Especially if the third line isn't as equal in talent as we would hope to the top two lines.

Not considering Kane a third liner is basically my point, he gets a winger that is lacking and imo the third C , and likely less minutes. I value Kane too much to bury him so to speak , I 'd rather find another option. Like I said there isn't an ideal one raising it's hand. I bank on his production with better players personally .

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08-02-2014, 01:31 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetkarma View Post
You didn't say that , I said and say that. I don't think they actually would get equal minutes , the goal may be to do that but I doubt it happens. Especially if the third line isn't as equal in talent as we would hope to the top two lines.

Not considering Kane a third liner is basically my point, he gets a winger that is lacking and imo the third C , and likely less minutes. I value Kane too much to bury him so to speak , I 'd rather find another option. Like I said there isn't an ideal one raising it's hand. I bank on his production with better players personally .
Ok, I guess I was confused because you directly quoted me and made that statement.

At this stage of their careers, Perreault has arguably better numbers than Scheifele - would it look better if I arranged the lines this way?

LLF
KPG/O
BSW

Perreault is currently a stronger possession player, and has great 5v5 numbers on the assist side - Kane + Perreault could potentially handle tougher minutes than Kane + Scheifele (again, at this stage of Scheif's career - I'm a big fan of his).

I guess we'll see come TC and pre-season, but my money's on seeing Kane with Perreault, and Scheif with Wheels.

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08-02-2014, 01:43 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
Ok, I guess I was confused because you directly quoted me and made that statement.

At this stage of their careers, Perreault has arguably better numbers than Scheifele - would it look better if I arranged the lines this way?

LLF
KPG/O
BSW

Perreault is currently a stronger possession player, and has great 5v5 numbers on the assist side - Kane + Perreault could potentially handle tougher minutes than Kane + Scheifele (again, at this stage of Scheif's career - I'm a big fan of his).

I guess we'll see come TC and pre-season, but my money's on seeing Kane with Perreault, and Scheif with Wheels.
Had this argument before. It isn't the line number that matters. And it isn't putting Kane with Perreault that is a problem. If Perreault is ahead of Scheifele and better with Kane then give them Wheeler or Frolic or even Buff on the right side. Not O'Dell or Galiardi. At least that is the stated issue. It isn't about line numbers it is about linemates and TOI. Personally I think O'Dell is going to surprise a few people so KPO might work out fine but my first inclination is KSF because I liked them together last year.

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08-02-2014, 01:47 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
Had this argument before. It isn't the line number that matters. And it isn't putting Kane with Perreault that is a problem. If Perreault is ahead of Scheifele and better with Kane then give them Wheeler or Frolic or even Buff on the right side. Not O'Dell or Galiardi. At least that is the stated issue. It isn't about line numbers it is about linemates and TOI. Personally I think O'Dell is going to surprise a few people so KPO might work out fine but my first inclination is KSF because I liked them together last year.
I love Kane, I'm an admitted Scheif homer, and think Wheeler is a dynamic and fun player to watch. I loved watching that line last year - the speed with which they moved around the ice bordered on ridiculous.

That said, I think the team would be harder to play against if you don't load up two lines, and leave the 3rd floundering. That's my opinion.

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08-02-2014, 01:51 AM
  #18
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
Ok, I guess I was confused because you directly quoted me and made that statement.

At this stage of their careers, Perreault has arguably better numbers than Scheifele - would it look better if I arranged the lines this way?

LLF
KPG/O
BSW

Perreault is currently a stronger possession player, and has great 5v5 numbers on the assist side - Kane + Perreault could potentially handle tougher minutes than Kane + Scheifele (again, at this stage of Scheif's career - I'm a big fan of his).

I guess we'll see come TC and pre-season, but my money's on seeing Kane with Perreault, and Scheif with Wheels.
Like I said it isn't ideal .

I guess two things for me primarily , from experience I know you can weaken your team by trying to balance things , not always perhaps , but it happens too much for me.

So you lessen at least one line ( or can ) and your better players get less minutes.

My comment on burying Kane is that , he gets less than ideal linemates and less ice time . I would prefer to see if 9 55 26 can play as well as they potentially can . Both Kane and Scheifele are too young and haven't had optimum situations to already have decided they can't do this or that imo . Those 3 potentially ( yes ) have a tonne of upside and synergy , if they have to learn and grow to be better or good defensively I am willing to find out as the reward should be worth it.

I know it counters what was said , but I don't believe even if it is the stated goal that all 3 lines would get equal minutes , so I would have LLF and KSW get more than the third , even if it wasn't by a whole bunch.

I think we give our difference makers a chance to be that , and maybe it takes some growing pains , but at some you have to try imo .

Mairice did mention both KSW and BSW as intriguing him , so we'll see , anything is possible , but to me I give KSW a chance , a real chance to see if they can be as dynamic as I think they can.

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Old
08-02-2014, 01:57 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetkarma View Post
Mairice did mention both KSW and BSW as intriguing him , so we'll see , anything is possible , but to me I give KSW a chance , a real chance to see if they can be as dynamic as I think they can.
See my response to MS: I agree they could be very dynamic, but I think I'd rather structure it so the team was harder to play against. I also think that Kane's line could very well end up being the top line in terms of TOI on many nights, so I truly don't see it as a third line.

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08-02-2014, 02:04 AM
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With who at the other wing? That doesn't work for me . Like I said it isn't ideal , we don't have Buff and O'Dell and Galiardi or ? for 2 wing spots. My choice as of now is 9 55 26 , go from there. We'll see , we sure could use another piece.

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08-02-2014, 02:06 AM
  #21
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With who at the other wing? That doesn't work for me . Like I said it isn't ideal , we don't have Buff and O'Dell and Galiardi or ? for 2 wing spots. My choice as of now is 9 55 26 , go from there. We'll see , we sure could use another piece.
I'm fine with LLF, BSW, KPO/G personally. I think the pairings are more important than the three players - shuffle the wingers as needed (move Frolik from line to line, for instance), but allow chemistry to form between a C and a winger.

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08-02-2014, 02:10 AM
  #22
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Can we at least agree that Galiardi will likely start the year on "line four"?

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08-02-2014, 03:00 AM
  #23
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2014-2015 Lineup

Ok, so if we're honest, there probably won't be any more significant moves this offseason. Chevy said he wanted to add another top 9-er, and got that in Galiardi. Barring any trades or other sorts of fun, we have the players under contract who will start the season. Potential lineups have snuck into many threads over the last little while, often resulting in similar conversations (who is Scheif playing with, who gets what zone starts, etc.) so why not consolidate?!?!

Post what you think/want/dream the lineup will be for your 2014-2015 Winnipeeeeeeeg Jeeeeets!

Here's what I think the lineup will look like:

Ladd - Little - Frolik
Kane - Perreault - Byfuglien
Galiardi - Scheifele - Wheeler
Tangradi - Slater - O'Dell

Enstrom - Trouba
Stuart - Bogosian
Clitsome - Postma

Pavelec
Hutchinson

Explaining some of the more potentially controversial things:
I think Trouba quickly supplants Bogosian, leaving us with two top 2 capable RHD.
I don't think O'Dell is given a top 9 spot, but is the first to move up when someone goes down w/ injury (not Thorburn, yay). Depending on TC, he and Galiardi may switch spots.
Morrissey and Ehlers don't stay past TC
Scheif has a bit of a sophomore slump, or at least he doesn't keep up the pace of the latter half of his last season as many hope.

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Old
08-02-2014, 03:06 AM
  #24
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Ladd - Little - Frolik
Kane - Scheifele - Wheeler
Galiardi - Perreault - Byfuglien
Tangradi - Slater - O'Dell

Enstrom - Trouba
Clitsome - Bogosian
Stuart - Postma

Pavelec
Hutchinson

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Old
08-02-2014, 03:24 AM
  #25
DespoticNewt
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Ladd -Little - Frolik
Buff - Scheifele - Wheeler
Kane - Perreault - O'Dell
Galiardi - Slater - Thorburn
Tangradi Halischuk Peluso Klingberg Cormier

Enstrom - Bogosian
Clitsome - Trouba
Stuart - Pardy
Ellerby
Postma

Pavelec
Hutchinson

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