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Adam Henrique's ceiling/value

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Old
08-04-2014, 10:48 AM
  #51
JustinCider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
Like I said earlier, if you are going to compare establish players to young players at least look at similar points of their career...

Kesler First 4 seasons (2003-2004 to 2007-2008)
238 39 42 81

Henriques First three seasons
194 52 58 110


Kesler didn't score 50+ points until his 5th NHL season. Henrique did in his first, granted with very good linemates...

Kesler didn't score 25+ until his 5th season...Henrique did it in his third on one of the lowest scoring teams in the league.

Henrique blows Kesler away in every category at simllar points of their career...It is not really close at all.
That's great and all, but not every player develops at the same pace, maybe Henrique does get to that next level, but just because he has a better start to his career does't mean he'll ever hit a 40-40-80 season. Even if he doesn't, he's still a top 50 C in the league, easily, probably top 45.

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Old
08-04-2014, 10:51 AM
  #52
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Reminds me a lot of Kirk Muller. He's a big game player so the Devils need to get in some big games again in the playoffs.

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08-04-2014, 10:59 AM
  #53
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I think Henrique is gonna surprise a lot of people in this thread...

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08-04-2014, 11:00 AM
  #54
TheCLAM
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Henrique is a one of the better complete two-way centers in the league. He's Ryan Kesler-lite, in sense where his defensive game matches but he doesn't have higher calibre offensive tools. I'd trade Kesler for Henrique due to outside factors (age, contracts) rather than the "who is better now"mentality. It's safe to say Henrique will be good bet for consistent 40-60 point guy in his career. I'd like to see him with more offensive line-mates, and I really think that Mike Cammalleri could help to spike his offensive output.

NJ seems to lack pure offensive players due to team style of play. If paired with a player like Kovalchuk for instance he would be in better position to pick-up points. Kesler has had the luxury of being around calibre offensive players his whole career.


Last edited by TheCLAM: 08-04-2014 at 11:06 AM.
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Old
08-04-2014, 12:57 PM
  #55
ManofSteel55
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what nonsense
Great rebuttal, thanks for contributing.

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08-04-2014, 01:08 PM
  #56
KaossKing
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Great rebuttal, thanks for contributing.
no problem, it contained as many relevant remarks as yours did

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08-04-2014, 01:08 PM
  #57
JimEIV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinCider View Post
That's great and all, but not every player develops at the same pace, maybe Henrique does get to that next level, but just because he has a better start to his career does't mean he'll ever hit a 40-40-80 season. Even if he doesn't, he's still a top 50 C in the league, easily, probably top 45.
Kessler never did that either...Not even playing with NOT 1 but 2 Art Ross Trophy winners did he ever crack 80 points

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08-04-2014, 01:10 PM
  #58
Intense Rage
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Kesler maybe the most overrated player in the NHL. He has crossed 50 points 3 times in his career. He is an excellent faceoff man and is extremely useful in playing the toughest minutes on the team but he is mediocre offensively. Now granted his line mates have been pretty awful in Vancouver but I still think people think far more highly of Kesler than they should.

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Old
08-04-2014, 02:06 PM
  #59
SMantzas
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Henrique isn't a particularly good playmaker as he isn't the best at finding and using his teammates. His 25 goals were also misleading because he had a fluky shooting percentage. If his shot rate doesn't improve, he'll likely struggle to hit 25 again, but should hover around 20.

Going forward I see him as a 20-25 player who is great on the PK and above average defensively.

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Old
08-04-2014, 02:42 PM
  #60
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Henrique is most likely moving to LW full time and I see him getting 25-30 goals if Elias is his C.

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08-04-2014, 08:54 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by tycobb View Post
Henrique is most likely moving to LW full time and I see him getting 25-30 goals if Elias is his C.
I see him shifting back and forth, but long term at center. Think Deboer wants him at center.

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Old
08-04-2014, 08:58 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by SMantzas View Post
Henrique isn't a particularly good playmaker as he isn't the best at finding and using his teammates. His 25 goals were also misleading because he had a fluky shooting percentage. If his shot rate doesn't improve, he'll likely struggle to hit 25 again, but should hover around 20.

Going forward I see him as a 20-25 player who is great on the PK and above average defensively.
You and I agree on something

I have the exact same opinion of him.

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Old
08-04-2014, 11:54 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
Plekanec lite is a good comparison, in my opinion.

The Kesler comparison is being very generous.



"Clutchness" is a huge sports fallacy.

Having some big goals in the playoffs really doesn't prove much.
I almost thought you were serious, haha.

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08-04-2014, 11:59 PM
  #64
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Henrique is just as good as present day Kesler. But don't think he'll even sniff Kesler's peak.

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Old
08-05-2014, 08:43 AM
  #65
SMantzas
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Originally Posted by Roo Mad Bro View Post
You and I agree on something

I have the exact same opinion of him.
I think a lot of Devils fans overvalue him because of his two OT clinching goals and the fact that he's our only young forward to make an impact on the league. If he can bump up his shot rate from 2 to 2.5 per game, he can score 25 again. Should be able to do that if he sticks to the wing

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Old
08-05-2014, 10:18 AM
  #66
Missionhockey
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Originally Posted by SMantzas View Post
Henrique isn't a particularly good playmaker as he isn't the best at finding and using his teammates. His 25 goals were also misleading because he had a fluky shooting percentage. If his shot rate doesn't improve, he'll likely struggle to hit 25 again, but should hover around 20.

Going forward I see him as a 20-25 player who is great on the PK and above average defensively.
I don't honestly think Henrique is a bad playmaker, in fact, think aspect of his game is underrated. Unfortunately he was shuffled up and down the line up most of the season. The line he was also stuck on most was with Ryanne Clowe and Michael Ryder, neither of which are great skaters. On top of that, Ryder was totally useless for a stretch of about 25 games, at least 10 of which were when he was skating with Henrique.

Good players need good players to produce. Clowe should really be a 3rd liner and Ryder is pretty garbage. I don't think it should be a mystery that when he was finally put with top 6 players he started to produce.

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Old
08-05-2014, 10:27 AM
  #67
SMantzas
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Originally Posted by Missionhockey View Post
I don't honestly think Henrique is a bad playmaker, in fact, think aspect of his game is underrated. Unfortunately he was shuffled up and down the line up most of the season. The line he was also stuck on most was with Ryanne Clowe and Michael Ryder, neither of which are great skaters. On top of that, was totally useless for a stretch of about 25 games, at least 10 of which were when he was skating with Henrique.

Good players need good players to produce. Clowe should really be a 3rd liner and Ryder is pretty garbage. I don't think it should be a mystery that when he was finally put with top 6 players he started to produce.
When he got put in the top 6, he started to produce because he played with Patrik Elias, who is still a magician in his late 30s. His assist rate didn't increase but it probably isn't his fault. The Devils don't have many good goal score scorers. The only better goal scorers on the team are Cammalleri, Ryder and maybe Jagr.

The last 2 years he's had Cy Young caliber seasons (when you have a lot more goals than assists). I expect his assists to tick up a bit, but I maintain he isn't a great playmaker. In his 119 games without Kovalchuk and ZP9 he has 23 assists. I'm sorry but thats pretty bad for a center, which is why he should move to wing

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08-05-2014, 10:57 AM
  #68
Missionhockey
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Originally Posted by SMantzas View Post
When he got put in the top 6, he started to produce because he played with Patrik Elias, who is still a magician in his late 30s. His assist rate didn't increase but it probably isn't his fault. The Devils don't have many good goal score scorers. The only better goal scorers on the team are Cammalleri, Ryder and maybe Jagr.

The last 2 years he's had Cy Young caliber seasons (when you have a lot more goals than assists). I expect his assists to tick up a bit, but I maintain he isn't a great playmaker. In his 119 games without Kovalchuk and ZP9 he has 23 assists. I'm sorry but thats pretty bad for a center, which is why he should move to wing
Who does he have to finish off his passes though? The invisible man Michael Ryder? Jagr was with Zajac all year and Elias was injured for about a 3rd of the season. After Jagr, Zajac, Elias and Henrique the Devils have very few difference makers on offense. He might not be a great player maker, but I don't think 25-30 assists are out of the question if he was put between two quality wingers. Hopefully Elias and Havlat can be that.

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08-05-2014, 11:05 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Missionhockey View Post
Who does he have to finish off his passes though? The invisible man Michael Ryder? Jagr was with Zajac all year and Elias was injured for about a 3rd of the season. After Jagr, Zajac, Elias and Henrique the Devils have very few difference makers on offense. He might not be a great player maker, but I don't think 25-30 assists are out of the question if he was put between two quality wingers. Hopefully Elias and Havlat can be that.
You expect Havlat to stay healthy for long?

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Old
08-05-2014, 11:17 AM
  #70
Missionhockey
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You expect Havlat to stay healthy for long?
That's why I said hopefully.

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Old
08-05-2014, 12:04 PM
  #71
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his playmaking ability is pretty limited, especially for a center, but he's got a solid shot, good at finding space, and excellent defensive play. he's exactly the kind of guy you want to be the best player on your 2nd line. only problem for NJ is that we have a ton of those.

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Old
08-07-2014, 11:37 AM
  #72
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Henrique is one of those players that become exponentially better when his linemates are upgraded. He was amazing with Taylor Hall and was great with Parise and Kovalchuk, both of whom had a hard time playing with each other til Henrique. I believe if we let Boucher and Henrique develop some long term chemistry, you're going to see some amazing scoring.

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08-07-2014, 01:29 PM
  #73
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I like the Plekanec comparison a whole lot. More realistic than the Kesler one.

The "less-offensively talented Brayden Schenn" comment is extremely weird. Henrique has been more productive, is a far, far better defensive player and, stylistically, the two have almost nothing in common.

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08-07-2014, 01:34 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by ManofSteel55 View Post
Great rebuttal, thanks for contributing.
I agree with you and I think many non-devils fans would as well.

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Old
08-07-2014, 03:06 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
I agree with you and I think many non-devils fans would as well.
I don't see how the Kesler comparisons are that far off. Right now, he is basically a comparable player (if not better). He has outproduced Kesler (by a pretty wide margin) if you compare their careers through their first 3 seasons.

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