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With all the Messier bashing going on on the various boards why...

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Old
09-19-2005, 11:24 AM
  #51
Edge
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If Messier's vapor talent is 20 goals and 40 points that's really scary because it still makes him better than how many players out there, especially on this team.

The fact that Messier, inspite of his age and his flaws, was still able to outscore and frankly outplay on a given night players who are supposedly the foundation of this team speaks more about how pathetic some of these teams have been rather than Messier's aging talents.

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09-19-2005, 02:19 PM
  #52
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forgive the ignorance, but what exactly did Gino Odjick say and when?

Thanks...

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09-19-2005, 04:33 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
If Messier's vapor talent is 20 goals and 40 points that's really scary because it still makes him better than how many players out there, especially on this team.

The fact that Messier, inspite of his age and his flaws, was still able to outscore and frankly outplay on a given night players who are supposedly the foundation of this team speaks more about how pathetic some of these teams have been rather than Messier's aging talents.
Like I've said a few times now in different ways. if you're scoring 40 points and giving up 40 points with your own giveaways you are less than worthless. For the last few seasons his turnovers far outdistanced anyone else's on the team.

If you're on his team and you get benched for a single giveaway or do not dress the next game for a giveaway (a very common practice) and then you watch Messier consistently make drop passes to no one that end up in breakaways and odd man rushes, you are going to be pissed off, and the worst part is that you can't say anything because Messier is a sacred cow. If anyone thinks that that is not a recipe for dissension I differ wholeheartedly.

Messier was one of the all time greats but it's been over for a while now. He had become bigger than the team. He got people hired and fired and traded. That can't work. It creates a pall over a team and I don't think anyone here can argue that the Rangers haven't been a morgue for a long time.

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09-19-2005, 04:57 PM
  #54
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Pretty much like Gretzky...

guys that constantly handle the puck, give it away at an alarming rate. Unfortunately so many people focus on Messier for the team's problems over the last few seasons when Messier had little in the way of a supporting cast (unless Jeff Ulmer, Jeff Toms, John Tripp and Lundmark count), and there really wasn't anybody in the system that deserved the job over him. The real shame is that the Rangers didn't get a chance to utilize him properly. It is also amazing that in his last season with the Rangers, as a really old man, he was a +3...when Holik was a +4 and Nedved was -9, while being second on the team in scoring. He was -2 the prior year while Nedved was -4, and he was fourth in scoring. Amazing, I think, considering how bad those teams' defenses were, and how bad the goaltending was.

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09-19-2005, 05:22 PM
  #55
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Like I've said a few times now in different ways. if you're scoring 40 points and giving up 40 points with your own giveaways you are less than worthless. For the last few seasons his turnovers far outdistanced anyone else's on the team.
And as Fletch said he also amazingly finished with a plus rating and don't hand me that linemates line. Take a look at some of the guys he was playing with.

Did Messier have giveaways? You bet, but when a player handles the puck that much it is going to happen.

What's really sad is that he even had to be used in that situation.

Quote:
If you're on his team and you get benched for a single giveaway or do not dress the next game for a giveaway (a very common practice) and then you watch Messier consistently make drop passes to no one that end up in breakaways and odd man rushes, you are going to be pissed off, and the worst part is that you can't say anything because Messier is a sacred cow. If anyone thinks that that is not a recipe for dissension I differ wholeheartedly.
Puh-leaze with a captial P. This team gave infinite chances to "Stars" who continously failed to produce. Take your pick.

Quote:
Messier was one of the all time greats but it's been over for a while now. He had become bigger than the team. He got people hired and fired and traded. That can't work. It creates a pall over a team and I don't think anyone here can argue that the Rangers haven't been a morgue for a long time.
Who'd he got hired and fired the last few years? I seem to be drawing a blank on that one. And you don't honestly believe that he is the only captain with insight into stuff like that?

I notice that doesn't matter when Nedved had insight into trades or Jagr or other players.

It's all Messier's fault.

The problem with this "team" is that no one stepped up. Too many guys who withered and died. If you have Kovalev, Lindros and Jagr playing at full potential each one of those guys is a point per game player which says nothing of the other talent.

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Old
09-20-2005, 12:39 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
Maybe it doesn't bother most but when I see guys pulling up Gino Odjick quotes in some lame attaempt to slam an alltime great like Mess by using that bum Odjicks words I just have to jump in and call them for their nonsense.
i missed something here, could someone please elaborate?
thanks...

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