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All purpose Evander Kane thread II

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Old
08-03-2014, 07:52 AM
  #26
Hi-wayman
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Originally Posted by joustinboy123 View Post
You do realize Burrows has had only one bad season? And Markstrom just needs time to develop. Also have you even seen Shinkaruk play? He's looking really good. And the only way a Draft pick can go wrong is bad scouting and improper so a team can only blame themselves if they screw up a pick unless there's an injury
and this is why this is also not a good trade for Vancouver either. The trade does not address need for either team. It is strictly, on Vancouver's part, targeting a highly skilled player (who shows an indication that he is not a team player and could be a bad influence on our other players) at the expense of very high quality prospect depth. All for the sake of a trade.

The Canucks have had a total major change over this summer attempting to repair the damage brought on by Torts. All without gutting the core totally, but addressing key weaknesses.

Burrows and Hansen are Vancouver's two best defensive forwards. They are perfect mentors to teach prospects like Gaunce, Horvat, Cassels, Virtanen and McCann the importance of the defensive side of the game without diminishing their offensive skills. Shinkaruk has the potential to be as good as Kane in a few years. You have already pointed out Markstrom's problems and potential as well as the value of any first round pick.

Now is not the time to undo the repair to our prospect depth management accomplished so far by trading away two top prospects and a first round pick for Kane. The grass really isn't greener on the other side of the fence. Now is the time to allow some time to see what kind of team we now have by seeing them on the ice. Later, if management finds the team has a deficiency, it can be addressed then. The way things stand now, management has left themselves over $3 million under the salary cap. There is a good chance the Canucks can use that cap space to grab a waiver player or two similar to when the acquired Stanton. If not they have that space to work a trade with a team that needs to cut salary before the season starts.

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08-03-2014, 08:17 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
and this is why this is also not a good trade for Vancouver either. The trade does not address need for either team. It is strictly, on Vancouver's part, targeting a highly skilled player (who shows an indication that he is not a team player and could be a bad influence on our other players) at the expense of very high quality prospect depth. All for the sake of a trade.

The Canucks have had a total major change over this summer attempting to repair the damage brought on by Torts. All without gutting the core totally, but addressing key weaknesses.

Burrows and Hansen are Vancouver's two best defensive forwards. They are perfect mentors to teach prospects like Gaunce, Horvat, Cassels, Virtanen and McCann the importance of the defensive side of the game without diminishing their offensive skills. Shinkaruk has the potential to be as good as Kane in a few years. You have already pointed out Markstrom's problems and potential as well as the value of any first round pick.

Now is not the time to undo the repair to our prospect depth management accomplished so far by trading away two top prospects and a first round pick for Kane. The grass really isn't greener on the other side of the fence. Now is the time to allow some time to see what kind of team we now have by seeing them on the ice. Later, if management finds the team has a deficiency, it can be addressed then. The way things stand now, management has left themselves over $3 million under the salary cap. There is a good chance the Canucks can use that cap space to grab a waiver player or two similar to when the acquired Stanton. If not they have that space to work a trade with a team that needs to cut salary before the season starts.
I love the part where Kane could be a "bad influence" and yet Alex Burrows is a "mentor".

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08-03-2014, 08:41 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
I love the part where Kane could be a "bad influence" and yet Alex Burrows is a "mentor".
Say what you will about his history of on ice instances, but when it comes to day to day life and involvement in the community the guy is a real pro.

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08-03-2014, 08:43 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by supersonic jet View Post
That was one fan, you have one that was trying to trade yak for unrealistic value back. Looks like he finally stopped, he kept getting dumped on.
It was not just one fan. Again go read pages 8-10 of that thread, the majority that posted there would prefer Kane, including some of the mods. Even funnier is they are using false information to make their argument.
More than 2 full pages of jets fans arguing they preferKane on their team than hall.
Remember Jets fans, Kane is a 2009 draft, while hall is a 2010 draft. Who is older player?

Maybe you guys thought Patrick Kane was on your team.

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08-03-2014, 09:16 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by commie View Post
It was not just one fan. Again go read pages 8-10 of that thread, the majority that posted there would prefer Kane, including some of the mods. Even funnier is they are using false information to make their argument.
More than 2 full pages of jets fans arguing they preferKane on their team than hall.
Remember Jets fans, Kane is a 2009 draft, while hall is a 2010 draft. Who is older player?

Maybe you guys thought Patrick Kane was on your team.
Are you talking about

kane + Morrissey for Hall?
or Kane + Trouba for Hall?
or even Kane + Bogosian for Hall?

yup most Jets fans said no to those trade..

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Old
08-03-2014, 09:16 AM
  #31
Oleg Petrov
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Gallagher, Tinordi, Tokarski, Habs 1st in 15

for

Kane

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Old
08-03-2014, 09:20 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Oleg Petrov View Post
Gallagher, Tinordi, Tokarski, Habs 1st in 15

for

Kane
Would have to take that over the Vancouver offer even though, there would be no chance of a lottery pick


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Old
08-03-2014, 09:21 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
I love the part where Kane could be a "bad influence" and yet Alex Burrows is a "mentor".
From what I have seen and heard about Kane is he is a highly skilled player, but very individualistic. Not a team player, but more concerned with his own scoring than whether the team wins the game or not. That is not always bad as Bure had a similar attitude when he was with the Canucks but it does tend to infuriate other team members which causes team dissension.

What worries me the most about Kane is that he has made it clear that he doesn’t want to play in Winnipeg and would like to be traded. Even though Kane is from Vancouver, would he likely threaten the Canucks in a similar fashion if he couldn’t get his own way here too? Vancouver just went through Luongo and Kesler. The team doesn’t need another malcontent on the team.

So yes, Kane has the potential to be a player with a serious attitude problem where ever he goes and if so, he could be a bad influence to the rest of the team. That doesn't diminish the fact that he has lots of skill. Kesler and Luongo were elite players. Just that Vancouver is to fragile right now to take a chance on Kane.

I don’t know what you are meaning about Burrows. He is an ultimate team player who wears his heart on his sleeve and is one of the better defensive forwards in the league. Every night he plays to help the team win. He is the type of player teams hate to play against but coaches love to have on their team. He can be a total pest to opposing players.

Fan wise, over the years, he has wrongfully picked up a reputation of being a dirty player. He is also thought of as being a diver, which he did do early on, but hasn’t been for three seasons now. Actually that reputation better described Kesler & Cooke before that, than Burrows. Burrows does not play dirty or try to injure anyone. He never has. He is just going to be a pest and part of his job is to try to get the other player to take a penalty.

Yes Burrows is an excellent mentor to young prospects. He teaches others how to play without the puck and what drive, effort and attitude is needed to be a long term success in the NHL.

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08-03-2014, 09:24 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by supersonic jet View Post
Would have to take that over the Vancouver even though, there would be no chance of a lottery pick
I actually think that it is doable as well. Habs lose in the long term but having Kane & Pacioretty on the wings will be deadly for years to come.

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08-03-2014, 09:25 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by commie View Post
It was not just one fan. Again go read pages 8-10 of that thread, the majority that posted there would prefer Kane, including some of the mods. Even funnier is they are using false information to make their argument.
More than 2 full pages of jets fans arguing they preferKane on their team than hall.
Remember Jets fans, Kane is a 2009 draft, while hall is a 2010 draft. Who is older player?

Maybe you guys thought Patrick Kane was on your team.
yes we know Hall is a whole 3mths + younger I'm not sure of the minutes though your research into that would be appreciated. Thanks

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Old
08-03-2014, 09:29 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
From what I have seen and heard about Kane is he is a highly skilled player, but very individualistic. Not a team player, but more concerned with his own scoring than whether the team wins the game or not. That is not always bad as Bure had a similar attitude when he was with the Canucks but it does tend to infuriate other team members which causes team dissension.

What worries me the most about Kane is that he has made it clear that he doesn’t want to play in Winnipeg and would like to be traded. Even though Kane is from Vancouver, would he likely threaten the Canucks in a similar fashion if he couldn’t get his own way here too? Vancouver just went through Luongo and Kesler. The team doesn’t need another malcontent on the team.

So yes, Kane has the potential to be a player with a serious attitude problem where ever he goes and if so, he could be a bad influence to the rest of the team. That doesn't diminish the fact that he has lots of skill. Kesler and Luongo were elite players. Just that Vancouver is to fragile right now to take a chance on Kane.

I don’t know what you are meaning about Burrows. He is an ultimate team player who wears his heart on his sleeve and is one of the better defensive forwards in the league. Every night he plays to help the team win. He is the type of player teams hate to play against but coaches love to have on their team. He can be a total pest to opposing players.

Fan wise, over the years, he has wrongfully picked up a reputation of being a dirty player. He is also thought of as being a diver, which he did do early on, but hasn’t been for three seasons now. Actually that reputation better described Kesler & Cooke before that, than Burrows. Burrows does not play dirty or try to injure anyone. He never has. He is just going to be a pest and part of his job is to try to get the other player to take a penalty.

Yes Burrows is an excellent mentor to young prospects. He teaches others how to play without the puck and what drive, effort and attitude is needed to be a long term success in the NHL.
I don't think he is much of flight risk, lives there in off season.

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Old
08-03-2014, 10:04 AM
  #37
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I don't think he is much of flight risk, lives there in off season.
but will Benning even want him? He's seemingly only looking at 100% team player types

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08-03-2014, 11:17 AM
  #38
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but will Benning even want him? He's seemingly only looking at 100% team player types
I think Kane would clean up his act if he came to Vancouver and I don't get why people are saying that this doesn't fill needs. Kane give the Canucks the final top six player they need and Winnipeg gets a huge package of players and a leader who can bounce back in Burrows so I don't get how this deal is an absolute no

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08-03-2014, 11:25 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by joustinboy123 View Post
I think Kane would clean up his act if he came to Vancouver and I don't get why people are saying that this doesn't fill needs. Kane give the Canucks the final top six player they need and Winnipeg gets a huge package of players and a leader who can bounce back in Burrows so I don't get how this deal is an absolute no
Because:
Burrows has very little value right now. He's on the downswing, and he's not getting younger. He'd be the oldest player on the Jets.

You'd be hard pressed to find a team that is less willing than the Jets to pay for a goaltender prospect right now. Markström has little to no value to us.

Shinkaruk would be yet another smallish forward with high point totals in juniors. Not much value to us.

The 2015 1st rounder has value.

It doesn't address our needs.

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Old
08-03-2014, 11:25 AM
  #40
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Not sure Kane helps the room. Too moody for my liking. Rather keep the group that is being bantered about here than have Kane. Burrows should retire a Canuck. Shinkaruk may be a lot better than people here imagine. Next years first may be awesome in a very strong draft year. Be dumb to give that up so easily.

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08-03-2014, 11:46 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by joustinboy123 View Post
WINNIPEG ACQUIRES
ALEX BURROWS
HUNTER SHINKARUK
JACOB MARKSTROM
2015 1st

VANCOUVER ACQUIRES
EVANDER KANE
This is a terrible offer for Kane, the only thing of value to us is the 2015 1st pick.

Alex, old, coming off a epically bad year...no thanks.

Jacob, we have lots of good young goalie prospects, don't need another.

Hunter, ok prospect but not the biggest guy, unproven.

Everything in the offer is either bad or unproven, that does not get a team a player like Kane who is one of the top LW in the NHL

Jets needs are:

Top 4 LHD not old
TOP 10 proven goalie but we're likely going to solve this ourselves with our own prospects.
Top 6 winger not old
Top 9 winger not old
First round picks in the 2015 draft

As you can see the opening offer only includes one thing we would be interested in and that's not enough. This is a easily pass from the Jets, don't even need to think about it. If you want one of our young core who is one of the top 10 LW's in the NHL the offer has to be much better and solve multiple of our needs.

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08-03-2014, 12:39 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Oleg Petrov View Post
Gallagher, Tinordi, Tokarski, Habs 1st in 15

for

Kane
That seems like way too much! Sure Kane is going to be a stud but man thats too much.
Gallagher+1st is alot.

The reality is 1st plus great prospect or solid younger player.

From the Leafs 1st with a tiny piece or Kadri+prospect ie Percy or Finn

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08-03-2014, 12:46 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by joustinboy123 View Post
WINNIPEG ACQUIRES
ALEX BURROWS
HUNTER SHINKARUK
JACOB MARKSTROM
2015 1st

VANCOUVER ACQUIRES
EVANDER KANE
Pretty sure that Winnipeg can get better offers for Kane elsewhere.

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08-03-2014, 12:51 PM
  #44
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I think Kane would clean up his act if he came to Vancouver and I don't get why people are saying that this doesn't fill needs. Kane give the Canucks the final top six player they need and Winnipeg gets a huge package of players and a leader who can bounce back in Burrows so I don't get how this deal is an absolute no
Because it doesn't fill needs for either team. The Jets are better off this season either keeping Kane or trading him to a team that returns them players they really need.

Kane doesn't fill a need for the Canucks. The most he would do is potentially improve the Canuck's second line LW by beating out either Higgins or Jensen. You have Jensen being eliminated before he even has a chance to show if he is ready or not. Kane might be a younger and more skilled player than Higgins, but the difference is far less than the value to the Canucks than Burrows and far, far, far less than having the Canucks give up two top prospects and their 2015 first round draft pick.

You are trying to create and justify trading for a player you like. Not only are you over estimating the trade value of Kane or you are grossly underrating the value to the Canucks of the Canuck players and pick, you are failing to leave either team better off as a team then they are without such a trade. Winnipeg ends up with players they don't need and loses a key goal scorer. Vancouver ends up with a slightly better 2nd LW at the cost of their best defensive forward plus reverts backwards in their prospect depth as well as gives up their 2015 first round pick. As such the Canucks as a team are actually the big losers in your trade.

Actually if we were trading with the Jets, Kane would not even be my first choice. He would be my fifth choice for Jets players who could improve the Canucks as a team overall.


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Old
08-03-2014, 12:53 PM
  #45
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That seems like way too much! Sure Kane is going to be a stud but man thats too much.
Gallagher+1st is alot.

The reality is 1st plus great prospect or solid younger player.

From the Leafs 1st with a tiny piece or Kadri+prospect ie Percy or Finn
My thought process:
Gallagher: How long can he play at this level of intensity in that frame, I see him getting banged up, sell while the value is high. Also Kane replaces him on the top line.
Tinordi: Can be sacrificed as the Habs have their core D locked up for 3 more years at minimum. Beaulieu and Pateryn IMO have passed him on the depth chart.
Tokarski: Career Back-up at best. Did great in a tough spot last season, but he isn't a long term solution in MTL.
2015 1st: This is the only piece that is tough to move. 2015 looks like a great draft, and if the Habs have a down year they will be kicking themselves for moving it.

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08-03-2014, 12:59 PM
  #46
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My thought process:
Gallagher: How long can he play at this level of intensity in that frame, I see him getting banged up, sell while the value is high. Also Kane replaces him on the top line.
Tinordi: Can be sacrificed as the Habs have their core D locked up for 3 more years at minimum. Beaulieu and Pateryn IMO have passed him on the depth chart.
Tokarski: Career Back-up at best. Did great in a tough spot last season, but he isn't a long term solution in MTL.
2015 1st: This is the only piece that is tough to move. 2015 looks like a great draft, and if the Habs have a down year they will be kicking themselves for moving it.
it just seems like a ton for Kane

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08-03-2014, 01:38 PM
  #47
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yes we know Hall is a whole 3mths + younger I'm not sure of the minutes though your research into that would be appreciated. Thanks
Tell that to your fan base who thinks hall is older than Kane.

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08-03-2014, 01:46 PM
  #48
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Tell that to your fan base who thinks hall is older than Kane.
You do know that one person is not a fan base right? Kane and Hall are essentially the same age.

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08-03-2014, 01:46 PM
  #49
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Tell that to your fan base who thinks hall is older than Kane.
I will take out an add and put it both papers for you

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08-03-2014, 02:01 PM
  #50
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It was not just one fan. Again go read pages 8-10 of that thread, the majority that posted there would prefer Kane, including some of the mods. Even funnier is they are using false information to make their argument.
More than 2 full pages of jets fans arguing they preferKane on their team than hall.
Remember Jets fans, Kane is a 2009 draft, while hall is a 2010 draft. Who is older player?

Maybe you guys thought Patrick Kane was on your team.
Well, that was fun.

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