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All purpose Evander Kane thread II

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Old
08-07-2014, 01:44 AM
  #101
Number1RedWingsFan52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Hoxville View Post
Jets fans, is it looking probable that Kane will be moved?
I would think now, That if Kane moves it will be at the trade deadline.

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08-07-2014, 04:57 AM
  #102
Hunter368
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Originally Posted by DFC View Post
I honestly don't mean for this to sound facetious, and I'm aware that it sort of will sound that way anyway, but I really want to know: How is Kane so valuable when you're describing him as a fringe top-six player on a non-playoff team?

Don't take that as me saying "there's no way he's worth that much." I'm not. I understand the talent level, etc, but I'm genuinely curious as to why he's not playing a bigger role.
No problem, is fair and good question to ask if you don't follow the team closely, know all the fancy stats on the player etc. Let me try to explain, first thing you have to understand the Jets have brutal depth problems up till now (still do to a lesser degree). The Jets up till this year have had only two solid lines, our top line would face the other teams best defensive line every shift so we got limited offence from them.

Kane stats show he creates offence, great 5vs5 player, solid defensively, skates like the wind, great shot, score by himself and improves the players on his line. To try and add a bit of depth, a third line threat that other teams had to be concerned about Kane was placed on the third line, he by far is the best player on our team who could generate offence with little help on his line. He's played with so many AHL players, plugs, old players etc on his line over the last few years it's no wonder the kid is frustrated. He has a huge burning desire to win now, and win often. This has not happened like he would like.

The Jets have desperately tried to find players to play on his line while not committing the FA mistakes so many other teams have over the last few years. Perr signed with us this year for 3 years, it's already been hinted that he might be Kane's new centre. If this lasted the entire year Perr would be Kane's best line mate he's ever had (for a prolonged period) by light years. Perr has very good speed and should be able to keep pace with Kane, something Oli had no chance at doing (Oli was his centre for the majority of the last two years). Yes Oli the guy who had 14 points just two years ago playing on our third line and who got some PP time, bad memories.

This should be a very interesting year for Kane, he might have another 30 goal year, he might be traded, let's wait and see.

PS: Anyone who knows Kane's game would never consider him a fringe top 6 player, zero Jets fans considerable him that. Around the draft it we'll documented on TSN (Bob) that teams were burning up the phone lines with Chevy trying to get Kane (biggest and most interested we're the Pens & Bruins). But no trade was made likely b/c Chevy's price was very high as it should be. We don't want to trade Kane, we would love to have 5 more players like Kane. Kane is the type of player teams want to have or add. Young, signed long term, good cap hit, scored 30 goals, scored 29 goals (prorated over short season), big, physical, fights, plays on the PK, skates like the wind, did I mention only 23 years old, etc. Love to draft 5 more players just like Kane. Hopefully that helps you understand why any team trying to get Kane will have to pay big time and the Jets don't want to trade this kid. This is also why we have not traded him to date, very good player.

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08-07-2014, 07:26 AM
  #103
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So what is Pavelec's value at this point?

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08-07-2014, 07:36 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Chemical View Post
So what is Pavelec's value at this point?
negative

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08-07-2014, 07:49 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by buckleupbaby View Post
negative
In that case I would think the Sabres would be willing to swap Enroth or Neuvirth (both on 1 year deals) in any Kane trade to sweeten the pot a little. Pavelec's 3.9 cap hit shouldn't hurt the next two offseasons.

I'm sure BUF-WPG deals have been discussed, but how close in value is Hodgson+STL 20151st+Enroth for Kane+ Pavelec?

As a Sabres fan I'd probably rather package some combination of our prospects than the STL 2015 first, but don't know how they're valued relatively.

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08-07-2014, 08:00 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chemical View Post
In that case I would think the Sabres would be willing to swap Enroth or Neuvirth (both on 1 year deals) in any Kane trade to sweeten the pot a little. Pavelec's 3.9 cap hit shouldn't hurt the next two offseasons.

I'm sure BUF-WPG deals have been discussed, but how close in value is Hodgson+STL 20151st+Enroth for Kane+ Pavelec?

As a Sabres fan I'd probably rather package some combination of our prospects than the STL 2015 first, but don't know how they're valued relatively.
value doesnt look bad imo, maybe jets fans say its not enough but it should be close. but i dont see a reason why buffalo would do this. they are not contending for anything but last place i think.

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08-07-2014, 08:20 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by buckleupbaby View Post
value doesnt look bad imo, maybe jets fans say its not enough but it should be close. but i dont see a reason why buffalo would do this. they are not contending for anything but last place i think.
I would think it would be around the deadline when their record would be less effected positively.

As a previous poster stated, having a 23 yr old with his scoring ability locked up for 4 more years would be a huge asset to have. Especially next to Reinhart and/or (hopefully) McDavid/Eichel down the line.

The Sabres aren't going to be able to attract that type of player in free agency, and waiting for prospects to develop will take time. Not to mention cause a logjam at both the AHL and NHL levels considering all the prospects and picks are currently in the system. Essentialy, they need to convert quantity to quality at some point. This seems like a good opportunity to do just that.

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08-07-2014, 09:13 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chemical View Post
In that case I would think the Sabres would be willing to swap Enroth or Neuvirth (both on 1 year deals) in any Kane trade to sweeten the pot a little. Pavelec's 3.9 cap hit shouldn't hurt the next two offseasons.

I'm sure BUF-WPG deals have been discussed, but how close in value is Hodgson+STL 20151st+Enroth for Kane+ Pavelec?

As a Sabres fan I'd probably rather package some combination of our prospects than the STL 2015 first, but don't know how they're valued relatively.
Value I'm looking for for Kane is young Top-6 F + 1st rounder + roster player.

I'd consider this, but I don't know that we'd roll with Enroth + Hutchinson. We'd have to go out and get Reimer, so we'd give up more assets there, which makes this less attractive.

Important to note there is 0 chance if this deal going down in real life. Jets are rolling with Pavelec as the #1 this year, live or die So you guys may have some competition for McDavid

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08-07-2014, 09:50 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by jamiebez View Post
Value I'm looking for for Kane is young Top-6 F + 1st rounder + roster player.

I'd consider this, but I don't know that we'd roll with Enroth + Hutchinson. We'd have to go out and get Reimer, so we'd give up more assets there, which makes this less attractive.

Important to note there is 0 chance if this deal going down in real life. Jets are rolling with Pavelec as the #1 this year, live or die So you guys may have some competition for McDavid
Ah so scrap the goalie swap.

Young top-6 F = Hodgson.
1st rounder = STL
roster player = Stewart/Stafford?

Can't imagine WPG would be interested in a rental like Stafford or Stewart though. Maybe Stewart if they think they can re-sign him. The trouble with a roster player from the Sabres is anyone with term was either just signed or traded for this offseason except for Weber.

Maybe another pick thrown in (2nd-3rd range) instead of the roster player?

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Old
08-07-2014, 11:28 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by DespoticNewt View Post
He doesn't get much PP time ...
Stats were 140:16 minutes of PP last season, 7th as a Jet. He only scored one goal in his 2 hours and 20 minutes of PP time. Is Kane really a #1 LW, or just a tweener?

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08-07-2014, 12:30 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by officeglen View Post
Stats were 140:16 minutes of PP last season, 7th as a Jet. He only scored one goal in his 2 hours and 20 minutes of PP time. Is Kane really a #1 LW, or just a tweener?
What's your definition of a #1 LW? He produces in the top 30 5v5 of lws and he's big on the Pk. He is quite useless on the power play, but so was the rest of our team.

It just comes down to how you spread your special teams

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08-07-2014, 12:43 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Grind View Post
What's your definition of a #1 LW?
The LW who plays on the first line, the line that is the primary source of goals for the team, both ES and PP, and has a substantial amount of the team cap.

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08-07-2014, 12:54 PM
  #113
Peter Tagli Eddie
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Originally Posted by officeglen View Post
The LW who plays on the first line, the line that is the primary source of goals for the team, both ES and PP, and has a substantial amount of the team cap.
According to this logic Tomas Fleischmann is a #1 lw.

He had 8G in 80GP

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Old
08-07-2014, 12:58 PM
  #114
Peter Tagli Eddie
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Definitely not a 1st line LW

Last 3 years:
#35 Fwd in goals 66 and #25 winger
#16 FWD in Even goals 55
Wingers #10
1. Kessel 70
2. Ovechkin 68
2. Pacioretty 68
4. Perry 67
5. Benn 60
6. Nash 59
7. Iginla 58
7. Ladd 58
9. Eberle 57
10. E. Kane 55
11. Pomminville 54
11. Sharp 54
13. Hossa 53
13. P.kane 53
13. Marchand 53

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08-07-2014, 01:10 PM
  #115
Hunter368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Tagli Eddie View Post
Definitely not a 1st line LW

Last 3 years:
#35 Fwd in goals 66 and #25 winger
#16 FWD in Even goals 55
Wingers #10
1. Kessel 70
2. Ovechkin 68
2. Pacioretty 68
4. Perry 67
5. Benn 60
6. Nash 59
7. Iginla 58
7. Ladd 58
9. Eberle 57
10. E. Kane 55
11. Pomminville 54
11. Sharp 54
13. Hossa 53
13. P.kane 53
13. Marchand 53

Exactly, looks like a pretty good LW winger to me haha.

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08-07-2014, 01:14 PM
  #116
officeglen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Tagli Eddie View Post
Definitely not a 1st line LW
1. Kessel 70
2. Ovechkin 68
2. Pacioretty 68
4. Perry 67
5. Benn 60
6. Nash 59
7. Iginla 58
7. Ladd 58
9. Eberle 57
10. E. Kane 55
11. Pomminville 54
11. Sharp 54
13. Hossa 53
13. P.kane 53
13. Marchand 53
of these wingers, how many suck on the powerplay?

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Old
08-07-2014, 01:29 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by officeglen View Post
of these wingers, how many suck on the powerplay?
Who cares?

If anything it's more impressive that he did that with less PP time. Not to mention the linemates he scored those goals with.

Is Fleischmann a #1LW? He met your "criteria".

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08-07-2014, 01:32 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by officeglen View Post
The LW who plays on the first line, the line that is the primary source of goals for the team, both ES and PP, and has a substantial amount of the team cap.
That's stupid logic though. If you carrying a pp specialist on your third line wing then the difference is negated.

Your basing your evaluation off metrics that aren't actually metrics but aesthetics.

Cap, pptoi, special teams points, none of these dictate where you get the most of your use nor your ability to produce in that usage.

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08-07-2014, 01:35 PM
  #119
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It would also unfairly punish a player due to team depth. Maklin is only a top 6 tweener by your def because he plays behind Crosby.

Different teams have different usage, and most teams don't heavily weight one line over the other for es too anymore. The differences usually come in zone starts and quality of competition. Most teams top two lines (manys top three) see nearly identical es toi

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08-07-2014, 01:54 PM
  #120
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Weehoo 3 way

To Wpg:
Reimer
Hodgson
St. Louis 1st
Josh Leivo

To buf:
Pavelec
Kadri
Tor 2016 1st

To TML:
Kane
Enroth

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08-08-2014, 09:39 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfunk View Post
Weehoo 3 way

To Wpg:
Reimer
Hodgson
St. Louis 1st
Josh Leivo

To buf:
Pavelec
Kadri
Tor 2016 1st

To TML:
Kane
Enroth
to Buffalo: Kane
to WPG: Girgensons + Lemiaux + SL 1st rd pick

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Old
08-08-2014, 09:46 PM
  #122
Howboutthempanthers
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
If Kane is traded, I don't think it should be another hockey hot bed acquiring him. I think this kid needs to fly under the radar to be successful. Florida would be a good fit IMO. Maybe something based around Kane for Huberdeau? Not sure who adds what, but I think it's pretty close.
Yeah, except we're not looking to trade Huberdeau.

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08-08-2014, 09:57 PM
  #123
Hunter368
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Yeah, except we're not looking to trade Huberdeau.
That's ok we're not looking to trade Kane either, but that doesn't stop fans from other teams from making hundreds of offers to us.

Example: If I see other offer involving Reimer for Kane I may need to take a bat to my iPad, no matter how many thousands of times we say we don't want Reimer he has basically zero value to us we still get another offer including Reimer for Kane. Example we have another one going now.

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08-08-2014, 10:51 PM
  #124
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Value of Evander Kane to Montreal

With Evander Kane in trade rumors and Montreal being mentioned as a potential location I want to know what it would take to get Kane to Montreal. "I don't think Kane is getting traded much less to Montreal I just felt it would be interesting to see what Montreal needed to get him."

I have a similar thread on Bobby Ryan
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1720307

I would usually make a trade I felt was fair but I don't know the value of a 23 year old 30 goal scorer.

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08-08-2014, 10:58 PM
  #125
Hunter368
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Originally Posted by hoc123 View Post
With Evander Kane in trade rumors and Montreal being mentioned as a potential location I want to know what it would take to get Kane to Montreal. "I don't think Kane is getting traded much less to Montreal I just felt it would be interesting to see what Montreal needed to get him."

I have a similar thread on Bobby Ryan
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1720307

I would usually make a trade I felt was fair but I don't know the value of a 23 year old 30 goal scorer.
Look at your team and decide what player you would never trade b/c he's too good, let's start the chat there and not all the misc pieces you don't want on your team anymore. To get value you have to give up value. Jets have ZERO interest in trading Kane unless a team over pays. We want more players like Kane to build around not less.

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