1a - Joe Thornton - Might be a homer pick but 100 points and 100 penatly minutes is a great feat.
1b - Todd Bertuzzi - Power is this guys middle name, scores, hits, fights and is an insane 240 pounds. Pretty much the closest thing to Cam Neely that's there's been in since Cam Neely.
Just out of curiosity, if Bertuzzi is a better power forward, why is Joe considered the better player?
Not saying being a power forward is the be all and end all of hockey, but if you consider the following:
Bertuzzi is seemingly a better goal scorer (tough to gauge, I think Bertuzzi is a better playmaker than a goal scorer, but I think he's slightly better of a goal scorer than Joe, whom I feel is more of an assist-machine), is a better power forward (albiet maybe just by a bit) and his playmaking is right up there with big Joe's, and all that..
What makes Joe the better player?
(Again, not trying to incite riots - just consider me the Devils advocate)
PS: I am a Canucks fan, but I am not exactly the biggest Bertuzzi fan in the world. I like the guy, mind you, but he's one of the few good Canucks I don't go homer on
Just out of curiosity, if Bertuzzi is a better power forward, why is Joe considered the better player?
Not saying being a power forward is the be all and end all of hockey, but if you consider the following:
Bertuzzi is seemingly a better goal scorer (tough to gauge, I think Bertuzzi is a better playmaker than a goal scorer, but I think he's slightly better of a goal scorer than Joe, whom I feel is more of an assist-machine), is a better power forward (albiet maybe just by a bit) and his playmaking is right up there with big Joe's, and all that..
What makes Joe the better player?
(Again, not trying to incite riots - just consider me the Devils advocate)
PS: I am a Canucks fan, but I am not exactly the biggest Bertuzzi fan in the world. I like the guy, mind you, but he's one of the few good Canucks I don't go homer on
Good question. I think Bertuzzi uses his size to bowl guys over and power to the net more than Joe. I agree he's a probably a better shooter -- mostly because he uses his size and strength to get in position and get off his good shot.
Joe, on the other hand, can bowl guys over and dominate along the boards just as Bertuzzi can, it's just that his game is a little bit more about finesse. Overall, I think he has much of what Bertuzzi offers but his vision and hands are better. It's just that he doesn't rely on raw power as much.
Good question. I think Bertuzzi uses his size to bowl guys over and power to the net more than Joe. I agree he's a probably a better shooter -- mostly because he uses his size and strength to get in position and get off his good shot.
Joe, on the other hand, can bowl guys over and dominate along the boards just as Bertuzzi can, it's just that his game is a little bit more about finesse. Overall, I think he has much of what Bertuzzi offers but his vision and hands are better. It's just that he doesn't rely on raw power as much.
Truth be told, Bertuzzi has a pretty terrible shot. Well, terrible by superstar standards. 90% of Bertuzzi's goals are tap ins. The other 10% are Naslund bouncing goals off his helmet into the net
To me, I see it something like this:
Bertuzzi is the more physical of the two, can get in the face of goaltenders more, seems to get more goals that way, but is more of a specialized player - IE: He's better with surrounding talent.
Thornton is the moe skilled of the players, and can dominate games at a similar level to Bertuzzi, but in a different way. He is not very specialized inso much as that he can pretty much be good in any situation, no matter the atmosphere of the game or what his coach wants him to do.
I'd say Thornton is more of the 'Franchise player'. The guy you build around. Bertuzzi is more of a complimentary player, but I feel when both players are on their game, Bertuzzi is perhaps a little bit better - but Thornton is more consistant.
I consider them very equal, in fact. Iginla too, whom sometimes people forget about. I feel he is right there with Thornton & Bertuzzi. Heck, Hossa too.
1. Bertuzzi- NOBODY else is even close
2. Iginla- If he played for an NHL team he would be something else
3. Tkachuk- As Miz said, when he is on, HE is the best...injuries!
4. Thornton- He is the best PLAER, but not best power forward
5. Shanahan- keeps taking a pounding year after year
i live in vancouver....i see 99% of canucks games. first of all, to be a power forward, you have to drop the gloves. now i cant remember the last time or if i ever saw bertuzzi drop em, dont get me wrong, he has one hell of a mean streak, but when it comes to doing more than pushing or shoving or runnning his mouth he is no where to be found. even 2 years back when he was suspended for coming off the bench he still kept his gloves on. therefore i would give to nod to iginla...shannahan or even joe. i agree joe is by far the superior player, he makes players around him better, where as bertuzzi until teamed with naslund, was a nobody. i would say
Shanahan seldom drops the mitts these days! Sure. Bertuzzi doesnt fight, but he absolutely DRILLS peopl eand takes a worse pounding day in and day out than ANY player in the game.
I read an interview last month with Brendan Shanahan in either The Hockey News or The Forecaster - (cant recall which) where he was asked what makes a true power forward, and his thought was basically that you had to fight to be one- in addition to scoring and hitting.
I know thats old school, but to REALLY be what I think of as a power forward, you have to get your nose dirty in the crease, you need to hit hard and often, you need to score AND you need to intimidate- which is usually done through some fighting.
That said, I can see Bertuzzi and Joe as well as Shanny and Tkachuck topping this list- even if Shanny is a bit long in the tooth to be fighting much nowadays.
I did hear Kluzak say the other day on NESN that Joe is now listed at 232 lbs this year- not far from Bertuzzi's 240.
BTW, no one asked me, but my all time favorites as "old school" power forwards are Cam, Wendel Clarke and Rick Tocchett. -Piels
