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Evaluate Chevy - Part III (mod warning post #104, #122)

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Old
08-08-2014, 04:34 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Hunter368 View Post
We'll that depends, if management has a big picture plan and if they can adapt if the plan goes south (like many plans do). But you're right most management shouldn't follow the opinions of fans, players or employees. But I think it's fair for us all to start to question this teams plan after 3 failed seasons and very possible a fourth one.
Failed meaning? No Stanley Cup? No playoffs? No building the asset base and restocking the almost empty prospect pool? No prospects developing and becoming contributors?

Lots of ways to look at it , Scelaton detailed it much the way I see it and am sure both management and ownership do as well. Sure we all want to win and be in the playoffs , but one and then done for several isn't the right way imo .

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08-08-2014, 04:39 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Hunter368 View Post
I see most often two POV debated here most commonly, one is sign FA, make trades etc to make the team better the other side says draft and develop and be patient. Both opinions IMO are just as wrong as the other and yet the two sides keep saying the same things over and over thinking they are going to change someone's opinion.

In reality I think the balanced approach is the best approach. A combo of draft/develop plus smart signings & trades where possible. Clearly it's impossible to turn this team into a good one via trades alone, we started with little to nothing to trade away. Using only the draft/develop is just naive to think we will be so much better at it than everyone else and make up the ground when we started so far in the hole, we all could be 100 years old or dead before that works.

One must use a combo balanced method to make progress. If prospects are not developing into what you thought they would be and your core is losing trade value start the rebuild and trade those core pieces when they still have value to add more picks/prospects. I think this is the method the Jets are using IMO. We have a core already (some are average or below average, no superstars), we're building depth via D/D, minor signings, waiver while we wait for our prospects to grow. But if they develop too slowly or never do then we have look at rebuilding and dumping much of our core for more picks/prospects. I don't feel we're at this point yet, maybe a couple more years of D/D before we consider blowing it up.

I feel there two majorities D/D and trade/FA opinions are both wrong while there is a minority here we like the balanced approach. My $0.02

All the above doesn't erase the multi mistakes Chevy has made. Pavs being the biggest one, which is really two mistakes. The original contract and then not buying him out.
I can agree with this and I have found through reading many of the opinions of some pretty smart posters here that I have changed my philosophy somewhat in regards to it.

I think the forum works best when posters are open minded, read the other side, and counter the points in those opposing views. Heck, maybe even learn a thing or two.

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08-08-2014, 04:50 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Spot on.

It is a rather telling sign that this specific thread continues ad nauseum, but a thread such as this this one... http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1718169

has been largely ignored by many of the harshest critics.
There's a different way of looking at that fact Gump, to be honest you kinda answered your own point.... That is the majority agree that Chevy is not doing the best job. While you might not agree with the majority it is what it is.

FYI, I have already stated I'm not in the majority either, I'm not in the camp of D/D either, I'm in the balanced use both methods approach. But, like I think everyone would agree, Chevy has made mistakes.

I think it's 2100+ posts (Chevy thread) vs 39 posts (5 year plan thread), that does speak volumes.

Whether you agree or not with the people in the Chevy thread it shows a increased level of frustration among most Jets fans.


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08-08-2014, 05:48 PM
  #104
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Here's the scoop: we (mods) don't care whether you're for or against the moves made by the Jets / Chevy - the simple fact is that if we as a group are commenting on posters or segments of posters instead of discussing the points presented, we're off topic.

Plain and simple - it's not about other posters, it's about the team, discussing ideas, and debating standpoints. Period.

We've probably been a bit lax in ensuring that we stick to this because it's the off season, but it's becoming a bit much - good discussion is getting pushed to the side because of the OT discussions.

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08-08-2014, 07:14 PM
  #105
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I dunno...I think it's all a bit of an illusion. Progress is fine, but we actually have to make MORE progress than our competitors to become better. When you see what happened in the central division this year and look at us, it's hard to be optimistic.

Compare the rosters in ATL vs. WPG.

If you look strictly at the standings, there's no real progress.

If you look at drafting, ATL drafted Little, Burmistrov, Bogosian and Kane. WPG has drafted Scheifele, Trouba, Morrissey and Ehlers. All nice, although we lost Burmistrov, so....yeah. Lets call that a toss up for now and no real progress.

If you look at player development, neither ATL or WPG have graduated a single skater drafted beyond the 1st round to the NHL. There's no progress yet.

If you look at players acquired through the trade. ATL picked up Kozlov, Wheeler, Ladd, Byfuglien, Stuart, Oduya. WPG has added: Seto, Frolik, Fehr, Tangradi. ATL is the clear winner here.

If you look at players acquired through Free Agency: ATL signed Hainsey, Antropov, Afinogenov vs. WPG's FA: Jokinen, Wellwood, Perreault. I'm giving the nod here to ATL as well, although not by much.


Sorry but I just don't see the same progress you're seeing. Until Nic Petan plays in the NHL, he's 2011 Sepncer Machacek to me.

Same goes for Hellybucyk (Pasquale), Kitchton (Redmond), Kilngberg (Klingberg) O'Dell (Jaffray), O'Neill (Kulda), etc, etc, etc. Show me the money.

SHOW. ME. THE. MONEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY. They have my money for at least the next 15 years, I'd like to be shown a little of theirs. Have a good weekend all.
While many of your points are technically correct, you don't really take into account time horizon's. For instance, the first of the Jets late round picks just entered the pro ranks last year whereas we have had a decade plus to analyze Atlanta's ineptitude after the first round.

Also things don't happen in a vacuum acquiring Ladd, Wheeler and Buff impacted the asset base Chevy had to work with. Also

You are also doing a pretty good job cherry picking favorable trades that Atlanta made and not accounting for the long list of terrible moves made under that regime.

The Kovalchuk deal was an absolute bust.
The Hossa deadline deal was a bust.
Trading away Coburn and a bunch of good assets for a one and done playoff appearance.
Trading away Lehtonen
First round draft busts like Bourret and Valabak.

People get upset at Chevy for not doing much at the trade deadline, well at least doing nothing is better than giving away star players for free.


Last edited by surixon: 08-08-2014 at 07:30 PM.
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08-08-2014, 07:54 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
While many of your points are technically correct, you don't really take into account time horizon's. For instance, the first of the Jets late round picks just entered the pro ranks last year whereas we have had a decade plus to analyze Atlanta's ineptitude after the first round.

Also things don't happen in a vacuum acquiring Ladd, Wheeler and Buff impacted the asset base Chevy had to work with. Also

You are also doing a pretty good job cherry picking favorable trades that Atlanta made and not accounting for the long list of terrible moves made under that regime.

The Kovalchuk deal was an absolute bust.
The Hossa deadline deal was a bust.
Trading away Coburn and a bunch of good assets for a one and done playoff appearance.
Trading away Lehtonen
First round draft busts like Bourret and Valabak.

People get upset at Chevy for not doing much at the trade deadline, well at least doing nothing is better than giving away star players for free.
Like I said before balanced approach, using D/D, smart FA/trades, waiver, etc is the key. At times no action is better than a huge mistake, but you also can't be paralyzed with fear or indecision.

Chevy has one huge mistake against him already (plus several smaller ones)I'm sure he's gun shy to make another so soon, he's also very patient so his first big trade I'm sure he really wants to be sure about it. Which of corse is common sense but even more so with Chevy. I think most people believe inaction is more forgivable than a mistake. In the end both can be equally deadly.

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08-08-2014, 08:01 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Hunter368 View Post
Like I said before balanced approach, using D/D, smart FA/trades, waiver, etc is the key. At times no action is better than a huge mistake, but you also can't be paralyzed with fear or indecision.

Chevy has one huge mistake against him already (plus several smaller ones)I'm sure he's gun shy to make another so soon, he's also very patient so his first big trade I'm sure he really wants to be sure about it. Which of corse is common sense but even more so with Chevy. I think most people believe inaction is more forgivable than a mistake. In the end both can be equally deadly.
True, he has made some mistakes. I'm ok with some of the minor ones as every team makes them. It really boils down to Pavelic for me with him, if he was able to get rid of him I don't think we'd be hearing all that much about Chevy this summer. Also big trades don't always work in your favor, we are mostly in this mess due to Atlanta losing big on a number of so called big deals. I also don't subscribe to the theory that Chevy is afraid to make a deal, I think he knows what his price is and wont budge on it for his key players and I have no issue with that.

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08-08-2014, 08:10 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
True, he has made some mistakes. I'm ok with some of the minor ones as every team makes them. It really boils down to Pavelic for me with him, if he was able to get rid of him I don't think we'd be hearing all that much about Chevy this summer. Also big trades don't always work in your favor, we are mostly in this mess due to Atlanta losing big on a number of so called big deals. I also don't subscribe to the theory that Chevy is afraid to make a deal, I think he knows what his price is and wont budge on it for his key players and I have no issue with that.
I agree, the Pavs situation and hold it was handled has angered many fans, many paying fans. Until Pavs is gone I don't think many fans can forgive or forget this. Let's be honest if it wasn't for Pavs we might of made the playoffs the last three seasons.

I also agree don't trade major assets unless your forced to or get great value for them. Never give away your hard fought for assets, never. If your forced or able to great value for them that's a different story, but you had better win that trade.

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08-08-2014, 08:34 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
True, he has made some mistakes. I'm ok with some of the minor ones as every team makes them. [b] It really boils down to Pavelic for me with him, if he was able to get rid of him I don't think we'd be hearing all that much about Chevy this summer.[/] Also big trades don't always work in your favor, we are mostly in this mess due to Atlanta losing big on a number of so called big deals. I also don't subscribe to the theory that Chevy is afraid to make a deal, I think he knows what his price is and wont budge on it for his key players and I have no issue with that.
The Pavelec situation is a huge issue though. It is an issue that was created by the contract and it is an issue that the team has chosen not to move away from.

Would things be different if the Jets had a better goalie? Sure, but they don't have a better goalie mostly because the GM hasn't gone out to get one. This issue is what amplifies the importance of every other move or non-move.

Silly analogy:

If somebody throws a bunch of garbage on the floor for no good reason and refuses to clean it up (despite ample opportunity), then the garbage begins to rot and smell, said person isn't excused from the odor.

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08-08-2014, 09:04 PM
  #110
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Yeah, so Simple. Seriously

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Originally Posted by truck View Post
The Pavelec situation is a huge issue though. It is an issue that was created by the contract and it is an issue that the team has chosen not to move away from.

Would things be different if the Jets had a better goalie? Sure, but they don't have a better goalie mostly because the GM hasn't gone out to get one. This issue is what amplifies the importance of every other move or non-move.

Silly analogy:

If somebody throws a bunch of garbage on the floor for no good reason and refuses to clean it up (despite ample opportunity), then the garbage begins to rot and smell, said person isn't excused from the odor.

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08-08-2014, 09:22 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Randal61 View Post
Yeah, so Simple. Seriously
And really, even if they had a quality goalie they'd still just be scraping in and hoping for a 1st round upset.

Improvement elsewhere would still be on the checklist. Would people freak out as much? No, but they'd still want pieces added.

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08-08-2014, 09:25 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
The Pavelec situation is a huge issue though. It is an issue that was created by the contract and it is an issue that the team has chosen not to move away from.

Would things be different if the Jets had a better goalie? Sure, but they don't have a better goalie mostly because the GM hasn't gone out to get one. This issue is what amplifies the importance of every other move or non-move.

Silly analogy:

If somebody throws a bunch of garbage on the floor for no good reason and refuses to clean it up (despite ample opportunity), then the garbage begins to rot and smell, said person isn't excused from the odor.
I guess that depends on if he has or hasent tried to move away from the issue. Maybe he's tried to deal him for all we know. Maybe Chipman wouldn't let him use a buyout. Hard to say when we don't see what goes on behind the scenes.

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08-08-2014, 09:27 PM
  #113
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I guess that depends on if he has or hasent tried to move away from the issue. Maybe he's tried to deal him for all we know. Maybe Chipman wouldn't let him use a buyout. Hard to say when we don't see what goes on behind the scenes.
There are other avenues to fix or at leasy patch beyond a buyout. Competition could have been brought in via free agency or trade. Plenty of quality goalies have changed teams.

I really really really hope Hutch is the answer.

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08-09-2014, 10:08 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
There's always the possibility that injuries decimate our key players.

Ex: Little, Wheeler, Enstrom, Trouba miss significant time.

It's entirely possible that this team could skid into the bottom tier and be part of the McEichel sweepstakes
By that logic Chicago could be in the lottery too.

Oops, dug a little deep for that one. Went to first page instead of last.


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08-09-2014, 01:19 PM
  #115
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There's a different way of looking at that fact Gump, to be honest you kinda answered your own point.... That is the majority agree that Chevy is not doing the best job. While you might not agree with the majority it is what it is.

FYI, I have already stated I'm not in the majority either, I'm not in the camp of D/D either, I'm in the balanced use both methods approach. But, like I think everyone would agree, Chevy has made mistakes.

I think it's 2100+ posts (Chevy thread) vs 39 posts (5 year plan thread), that does speak volumes.

Whether you agree or not with the people in the Chevy thread it shows a increased level of frustration among most Jets fans.
That the majority of posts on a message-board may not be in favour of how the team is being run is evidence of nothing other than that misery apparently loves company, and that people look to blame others when things don't immediately proceed the way they believe they should. The majority of opinion on a message-board (one comprised in reality of a few fans relative to the whole) also does not necessarily represent the majority of opinion of the season ticket holders and fans that I know and interact with on a daily basis. Most of the professionals that I know have a very upbeat view toward the future here, perhaps in part due that most successful people tend to not think and dwell in negative terms. They in other words can see the forest and not just the trees directly in front of them.

So, anyway, forgive me for finding the tone to be overly negative here at times. Of course, as you stated, a balance between drafting/developing and trading is required; where we differ is likely the view of when trades should be made. I'm glad that Chevy has thus far largely resisted the urge to move anyone prior to building the required depth. Trades made from a standpoint of depth would actually add value to the whole, or at the very least would reduce risk of error.

Finally, I question your use of majority opinion as an arbiter of right or wrong. In stock trading there exists a subset of professional traders that intentionally and quite successfully take the opposite position relative to the weight of public opinion, as "contrarian" traders have correctly recognized that public opinion in regards to equity markets is usually incorrect when weighted heavily one way or another. Majority public opinion also for example dictates that "artists" such as Justin Bieber and others of his ilk hold positions at the top of the charts while other more worthy artists only sell to a limited audience by comparison. Forgive me as well for not bowing to the majority opinion.

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08-09-2014, 01:50 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
The Pavelec situation is a huge issue though. It is an issue that was created by the contract and it is an issue that the team has chosen not to move away from.

Would things be different if the Jets had a better goalie? Sure, but they don't have a better goalie mostly because the GM hasn't gone out to get one. This issue is what amplifies the importance of every other move or non-move.
I'm willing to believe in the "plan" and go along for the ride. I'm willing to even give Chevy a pass on some players like Seto and not yet signing Frolik to a long term contract as example.

But I will not give Chevy a pass on Pavs. Having a poor player at forward or defence is one thing, but having the worst starting goalie in professional hockey in your net, refusing to acknowledge this issue and refusing to do something about it, and then continuing to appoint him as your #1....

Sure we don't know what has been said to Pavs behind closed doors nor if he is on a short leash or not, but all we as fans can do is base our opinions on what we do know... And on the subject of Pavelec... Chevy is a failure.

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08-09-2014, 01:54 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
That the majority of posts on a message-board may not be in favour of how the team is being run is evidence of nothing other than that misery apparently loves company, and that people look to blame others when things don't immediately proceed the way they believe they should. The majority of opinion on a message-board (one comprised in reality of a few fans relative to the whole) also does not necessarily represent the majority of opinion of the season ticket holders and fans that I know and interact with on a daily basis. Most of the professionals that I know have a very upbeat view toward the future here, perhaps in part due that most successful people tend to not think and dwell in negative terms. They in other words can see the forest and not just the trees directly in front of them.

So, anyway, forgive me for finding the tone to be overly negative here at times. Of course, as you stated, a balance between drafting/developing and trading is required; where we differ is likely the view of when trades should be made. I'm glad that Chevy has thus far largely resisted the urge to move anyone prior to building the required depth. Trades made from a standpoint of depth would actually add value to the whole, or at the very least would reduce risk of error.

Finally, I question your use of majority opinion as an arbiter of right or wrong. In stock trading there exists a subset of professional traders that intentionally and quite successfully take the opposite position relative to the weight of public opinion, as "contrarian" traders have correctly recognized that public opinion in regards to equity markets is usually incorrect when weighted heavily one way or another. Majority public opinion also for example dictates that "artists" such as Justin Bieber and others of his ilk hold positions at the top of the charts while other more worthy artists only sell to a limited audience by comparison. Forgive me as well for not bowing to the majority opinion.
Where should I start:

- I never claimed the majority is right or wrong, please try to read my post. All I said was it would appear the majority of fans on this board feel Chevy has made mistakes and could of done better.

- you have no better idea what the whole of our fans feel than anyone else, so don't claim to. While the board members here represents only a small % of our fan base it's still more than your claim of the people you know.

- professionals have realistic view point, they don't have arbitrary positive or negative opinions without good reason. They make their opinions on facts and data.

- If you don't like a certain thread don't post there or view it, simple.

- I agree with you we need a balanced approach using ALL methods to improve, including D/D, FA, trades, waiver, etc. Why would you assume we would disagree on when or who we should trade? I never stated anything about trading anyone. But if your asking me, at this point I wouldn't trade any core without a clear over payment. Adding depth likely can be achieved without using any assets other than cash.

- you then talk about me using the majority as a indication of right and wrong. Here again you misquote my post or simply didn't read it. All I stated is the majority of fans here are growing frustrated with Chevy/Jets, never did I say that is a sign of them being right. I actually stated I disagree with the majority and I'm in the minority who wants a more balanced approach. But I would say the thread is a representation of the growing frustration. Right or wrong it is what it is. When people don't see clear substantial improvement it's human nature to become frustrated.

So are you now going to answer Jets post above? You seemed to miss it, post 66.


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08-09-2014, 02:11 PM
  #118
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I'm willing to believe in the "plan" and go along for the ride. I'm willing to even give Chevy a pass on some players like Seto and not yet signing Frolik to a long term contract as example.

But I will not give Chevy a pass on Pavs. Having a poor player at forward or defence is one thing, but having the worst starting goalie in professional hockey in your net, refusing to acknowledge this issue and refusing to do something about it, and then continuing to appoint him as your #1....

Sure we don't know what has been said to Pavs behind closed doors nor if he is on a short leash or not, but all we as fans can do is base our opinions on what we do know... And on the subject of Pavelec... Chevy is a failure.
Of course Pavelec is on a short leash. Whether it is said or not, everyone knows it, and most of all Pavelec himself. His hockey career is on the line this season. He will be given a fair shake and will go into the season with with the stability of coach Paul and his systems, right from training camp, and then it will be solely up to Pav's performance whether he remains our starter or not. I'd guess that he has twenty games +\- to make his case. And if this isn't obvious, I'd like to know what the alternative expectation would be, because we aren't tanking, soft or otherwise.

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08-09-2014, 02:12 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Hunter368 View Post
Where should I start:

- I never claimed the majority is right or wrong, please try to read my post. All I said was it would appear the majority of fans on this board feel Chevy has made mistakes and could of done better.

- you have no better idea what the whole of our fans feel than anyone else, so don't claim to. While the board members here represents only a small % of our fan base it's still more than your claim of the people you know.

- professionals have realistic view point, they don't have arbitrary positive or negative opinions without good reason. They make their opinions on facts and data.

- If you don't like a certain thread don't post there or view it, simple.

- I agree with you we need a balanced approach using ALL methods to improve, including D/D, FA, trades, waiver, etc. Why would you assume we would disagree on when or who we should trade? I never stated anything about trading anyone. But if your asking me, at this point I wouldn't trade any core without a clear over payment. Adding depth likely can be achieved without using any assets other than cash.

- you then talk about me using the majority as a indication of right and wrong. Here again you misquote my post or simply didn't read it. All I stated is the majority of fans here are growing frustrated with Chevy/Jets, never did I say that is a sign of them being right. I actually stated I disagree with the majority and I'm in the minority who wants a more balanced approach. But I would say the thread is a representation of the growing frustration. Right or wrong it is what it is. When people don't see clear substantial improvement it's human nature to become frustrated.
I have work to do and as such won't engage in a protracted argument. What I will say its that you are taking my words out of their intended context, just as you claim I've done. Again, the majority of fan claims made on a message-board is indicative of nothing other than the opinions of those very few fans relative to the mean; in the grand scheme it means squat.

Quote:
you have no better idea what the whole of our fans feel than anyone else, so don't claim to. While the board members here represents only a small % of our fan base it's still more than your claim of the people you know.
I didn't claim an idea of what "the whole of Jets fans feel", but rather stated to the effect that the level of negativity here is far greater than any I've seen displayed by fans I personally know and interact with. Hope that helps.

I'm going to finish by quoting a line from your post that I initially replied to:

Quote:
Whether you agree or not with the people in the Chevy thread it shows a increased level of frustration among most Jets fans.
Most Jets fans? It seems you are the one claiming to gauge the feelings of most Jets fans, not I. Oop.

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08-09-2014, 02:22 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
I have work to do and as such won't engage in a protracted argument. What I will say its that you are taking my words out of their intended context, just as you claim I've done. Again, the majority of fan claims made on a message-board is indicative of nothing other than the opinions of those very few fans relative to the mean; in the grand scheme it means squat.

I didn't claim an idea of what "the whole of Jets fans feel", but rather stated to the effect that the level of negativity here is far greater than any I've seen displayed by fans I personally know and interact with. Hope that helps.

I'm going to finish by quoting a line from your post that I initially replied to:


Most Jets fans? It seems you are the one claiming to gauge the feelings of most Jets fans, not I. Oop.
The majority of fans views on a board is a representation, albeit a small one of the whole, of the fan base. Unless you plan on polling all the Jets fans world wide it's all we can go on. Thus it does mean something whether you want to ignore it or disagree with it no one cares. I can guarantee this, Chevy and Chipman know about the growing frustration, not saying that changes their actions but they know of it.

Again the only means anyone here of gauging the true feelings of our fan base is on this board, so while it's not perfect it's better than nothing....which is what you've presented to counter it.

Again if you don't like a thread stay out of it, real simple. Have fun working on the weekend, I'm playing on the weekend.

You seem to have found my post to you, but you seemed to have missed Jets post # 66, are you planning to respond or ignore it?

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08-09-2014, 02:22 PM
  #121
Scheifele55
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We as fans have no idea what obstacles Kevin Cheveldayoff is up against. We do not know how free agents feel about playing in Winnipeg, we do not know about potential deals that were nixed because players did not want to join the club, we do not know how many blockbusters deals were out there and very close to being completed but something wasn't right.

Kevin Cheveldayoff has done an exceptional job selecting 1st round draft choices. Scheifele has skyrocketed in potential this year, Trouba is arguably our best defenseman, Morrissey has good potential and will probably take the spot of Enstrom in a few years and Ehlers had a huge jump in rating and some boards had him top 5. AFTER THAT, the jury is out. Lukas Sutter and Zach Yuen who were top 4 round selections are gone due to us not signing them, no player outside the 1st round has played a game for us that we have selected, however, there is a lot to be optimistic about.

I believe Cheveldayoff is underrated by the people here. He is not being given the credit he deserves in that Winnipeg isn't the #1 destination by any means.

The things I do regret about his performance is:

1) He should have dealt Wellwood in 2011-12 when he was off to a very fast start and averaging just under a point a game. We held onto him and his pace dropped.

2) He should have dealt Antropov in 2011-12 or 2012-13 instead of holding onto him. He too started off very well in 2011-12 and also his performance dropped.

3) He should have dealt Hainsey. I am not sure what the returns would have been on any of those 3 but in the end "just" making the playoffs isn't going to help the organization and believing in the scouting department and unearthing a gem is a heck of a lot better than losing all 3.

4) He should use his compliance buyout on Pavelec and re-signed Montoya. Montoya was solid last year which is something Pavelec hasn't been in his NHL career. Pavelec is so inconsistent and can be hot one game and awful the next. Al Montoya could have split action with Hutchinson and allow one of them to start 45-50 games.

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08-09-2014, 02:26 PM
  #122
YWGinYYZ
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No more discussion of posters or segments of posters from either side of the evaluate Chevy topic. It's OT. Thread-bans and infractions for the next person who does. Discuss Chevy, or ignore the thread.

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Old
08-09-2014, 02:31 PM
  #123
Mortimer Snerd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NBjet View Post
Of course Pavelec is on a short leash. Whether it is said or not, everyone knows it, and most of all Pavelec himself. His hockey career is on the line this season. He will be given a fair shake and will go into the season with with the stability of coach Paul and his systems, right from training camp, and then it will be solely up to Pav's performance whether he remains our starter or not. I'd guess that he has twenty games +\- to make his case. And if this isn't obvious, I'd like to know what the alternative expectation would be, because we aren't tanking, soft or otherwise.
I don't know where you get your belief that Pavs is on a short leash. Everyone does NOT know it. I do not know it. In fact I see not the slightest evidence of it except that anything else is hard to believe. It was exactly the same last year. His backup, much more experienced than the one he will have this year outplayed him by a very wide margin and yet he didn't reach the end of that leash. The alternative is that Chevy, smart hockey man that he is believes that Pavs is a better than average starting goalie and plans on sticking with him for at least the next 3 years. Unbelievable you say? Well so was not using the compliance buyout on Pavs. And don't tell me Chipman wouldn't let him because that is just as difficult to believe.

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08-09-2014, 02:37 PM
  #124
YWGinYYZ
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Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
And don't tell me Chipman wouldn't let him because that is just as difficult to believe.
Sorry, but if there was discussion of a buyout, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that it was nixed by someone other than Chevy.

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Old
08-09-2014, 02:41 PM
  #125
Hunter368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
Sorry, but if there was discussion of a buyout, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that it was nixed by someone other than Chevy.
You got that right, I would bet all owners have a say or final word or must be notified beforehand on buyouts in the NHL.

Really only three people would have final say in it, Chevy, Zinger and Chipman.

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