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Do the current core members of the Winnipeg Jets approve of their GM's inactivity?

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08-09-2014, 10:12 AM
  #51
SensibleGuy
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Agree, Jet.

He wouldn't have signed a 6yr deal if he HATED the city, IMO. A shorter deal that gets him to FA sooner would indicate he really wanted to move, more so for me. Basically ROR type negotiations or contract.
"Hate" is a loaded term. When I say that I really mean there is nothing about the city for him that makes him want to be here. In the absence of any other element keeping him here (a winning culture for instance) I think his ambivalence towards the city quickly turns into something closer to active dis-like.

But as far as the 6 year deal goes, it's not like he has a NMC in there right? I mean from his perspective, having a longer term on his contract like that actually makes him a more attractive player for other teams interested in acquiring him. I don't particularly see the contract as evidence of any sort that he feels one way or the other about the city. His refusal to utter a positive word about Winnipeg publicly says more to my mind...

This is all a bit off-topic now though. I was just responding to one post wondering if there was a specific quote from Kane to the effect that he doesn't want to be here. That just seems to be will-fully oblivious to me (sorta like somebody saying "please show me the quote where Bill Clinton says he did have sex with that woman." ) but whatever...

More to the point of the thread - I think some members of the core are probably getting a little restless at this point - one of them being Kaner.


Last edited by SensibleGuy: 08-09-2014 at 10:54 AM.
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08-09-2014, 10:23 AM
  #52
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Hates the city? Now you are going off the deep end. You are really showing bias with this statement.
Kane after signing his deal:
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Itís a real positive thing, and Iím looking forward to playing in front of the great fans of Winnipeg. Theyíve been tweeting me and letting me know how they feel. So itís great to get something done.

Playing this last year in Winnipeg, in Canada, the spotlightís on you, the fans are behind you, and thereís no better feeling than having that. To be able to get a deal done, even though it took right up until the deadline, is great for myself and Winnipeg. I know Iím really excited about playing.

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08-09-2014, 10:36 AM
  #53
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If TNSE comes out and says with PoMo guiding the group, "we believe in this group" and "we believe it is a playoff team", then it's back on the players to prove them right. So chevy's inactivity is really a vote of confidence for the group, which they would likely feel positively about.

IF they are talking about a 'soft tank' behind closed doors, and players are aware, then they may understand its best for the long-term success of the franchise, but not necessarily a fit for their career. But if they are able to pick a franchise player in 2015, I think many of those players will want to be apart of the future.

It's finishing 20th or 21st overall, again, with no playoff prospects and not low enough for a 'better' draft pick. If that happens again, then I see guys leaving in FA or requesting to be moved. It's a never ending cycle of futility. Until it gets blown up, but that takes a few years.
I'd be very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very surprised if any of the top players -- the ones who would not be replaced by someone new coming in -- see Chevy's inactivity as positive. I can't even believe any fan, even the most delusional ones, would actually seriously think the players would see that positively. I think when talking among themselves, the players are much, much, much, much, much more likely to say, "WTF?!?!?!?!?!?!?!"

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08-09-2014, 11:26 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Board Bard View Post
I'd be very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very surprised if any of the top players -- the ones who would not be replaced by someone new coming in -- see Chevy's inactivity as positive. I can't even believe any fan, even the most delusional ones, would actually seriously think the players would see that positively. I think when talking among themselves, the players are much, much, much, much, much more likely to say, "WTF?!?!?!?!?!?!?!"
So you think a GM saying (by not making significant changes), "we believe in this group, and believe that you can get it done", doesn't make the players feel confident and positive?

I don't think the players believed changes to the top 7 were going to happen. Ladd, Little, Wheeler, Buff, Scheifele, Kane and Frolik are solid players. Add in Perreault and they replaced Olli nicely. So what would the players want? Move picks or young players for a proven player, most likely near the end of their contract or after a poor season? I think the players are smarter than that. They know the situation. And if Chevy believes in them, then I think they play hard and feel like they have a chance.

In regards to goaltending. They are likely looking at Hutch's season and playoff run as a positive, like we are. They may even hope that he plays the same, and unseats Pavs.

I just don't think the players view this off season poorly. But another 80 pt, 7 place finish in the Central may change that. They've changed the coach. Next is the players.

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08-09-2014, 11:34 AM
  #55
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So you think a GM saying (by not making significant changes), "we believe in this group, and believe that you can get it done", doesn't make the players feel confident and positive?
I don't know. I think it all depends on how the players view themselves and their teammates right? I mean these are all professionals playing in the top echelon of the sport. They've all been on winning teams at various levels and they've all been on different teams of varying capabilities. I think most of them would have a pretty good idea of where the team is at as a group. If Chevy calls them in and tells the m "we didn't make any changes because we believe in you as a group" I could see the players thinking one of two things based on their own perceptions of where the group is. It's either "That's awesome! I know we can do it!" or it's "yeah right Chevy. Quit blowing smoke up my arse mmmkay...."

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08-09-2014, 11:42 AM
  #56
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I don't know. I think it all depends on how the players view themselves and their teammates right? I mean these are all professionals playing in the top echelon of the sport. They've all been on winning teams at various levels and they've all been on different teams of varying capabilities. I think most of them would have a pretty good idea of where the team is at as a group. If Chevy calls them in and tells the m "we didn't make any changes because we believe in you as a group" I could see the players thinking one of two things based on their own perceptions of where the group is. It's either "That's awesome! I know we can do it!" or it's "yeah right Chevy. Quit blowing smoke up my arse mmmkay...."
I think Chevy believes this group can compete for a playoff spot, and it likely will. It will either fail by a close margin (again) or get in by a hair and quickly booted in the first round.

If Chevy tells them I believe in this group you guys can compete for the cup or a serious playoff run (2-3 round) then yeh he just lost ALL credibility with the players.

People respect honesty, but if you try to BS them they'll see right through you.

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08-09-2014, 11:45 AM
  #57
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So you think a GM saying (by not making significant changes), "we believe in this group, and believe that you can get it done", doesn't make the players feel confident and positive?
I don't think the top players, at least those who want to win, see Chevy's inactivity as positive. I don't think they give a damn anymore what he says in public, or even what he says to them privately. Actions, or the lack of them, speak louder than words.

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08-09-2014, 11:59 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Board Bard View Post
I'd be very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very surprised if any of the top players -- the ones who would not be replaced by someone new coming in -- see Chevy's inactivity as positive. I can't even believe any fan, even the most delusional ones, would actually seriously think the players would see that positively. I think when talking among themselves, the players are much, much, much, much, much more likely to say, "WTF?!?!?!?!?!?!?!"
I think that says it pretty well. Except one too many 'verys' and one too few 'muchs'.

I don't know how specific they get. Would Ladd and Buff complain to each other about the continued presence of Pavelec? Hard to say but I bet it crosses their minds. They must be aware of the passing of seasons in their already short careers.

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08-09-2014, 12:37 PM
  #59
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So you think a GM saying (by not making significant changes), "we believe in this group, and believe that you can get it done", doesn't make the players feel confident and positive?
First, is that what the players read between the lines from Chevy's inactivity? Second, if that is how they interpret it, do they buy it?

The players all know where this same roster ended last season. They all know they have the worst starting goaltender in the league. They all (I certainly hope) believe in themselves as players. Do they have equal faith in ALL of their teammates? I doubt that. They are most likely all pretty much aware of their teammates strengths and weaknesses.

Quote:
I don't think the players believed changes to the top 7 were going to happen. Ladd, Little, Wheeler, Buff, Scheifele, Kane and Frolik are solid players. Add in Perreault and they replaced Olli nicely. So what would the players want? Move picks or young players for a proven player, most likely near the end of their contract or after a poor season? I think the players are smarter than that. They know the situation. And if Chevy believes in them, then I think they play hard and feel like they have a chance.
Why do some people appear to see the choices as being only between do nothing or do something stupid?

What would the players want? An NHL quality starting goaltender for one. NHL quality linemates (for Kane for example) for another. A 4th line that scares the opposition more than it scares its own team for another. None of those things was beyond reach this off-season. None of those things required trading the future for 'over the hill' veteran players.

Quote:
In regards to goaltending. They are likely looking at Hutch's season and playoff run as a positive, like we are. They may even hope that he plays the same, and unseats Pavs.
Possible. Even likely. They may also see that as a faint hope.

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I just don't think the players view this off season poorly. But another 80 pt, 7 place finish in the Central may change that. They've changed the coach. Next is the players.
Well since this off-season is aimed directly at another 9th place draft position I don't see how they can see this off-season any way but poorly. They are even more likely than fans to be impatient. Being able to see a better team on the horizon 2 or 3 or 4 years from now means less to them than it does to you. I'm pretty sure they are all aware of how short their career expectations likely are. They are hyper competitive individuals. That's what got them to where they are. Tomorrow be damned, they want to win now!

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08-09-2014, 12:37 PM
  #60
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I don't think the top players, at least those who want to win, see Chevy's inactivity as positive. I don't think they give a damn anymore what he says in public, or even what he says to them privately. Actions, or the lack of them, speak louder than words.
I think they recognize that there isn't quick fixes, and that moves like the Spezza deal won't happen here because a) Winnipeg wasn't on the star players approved list or b) the cost to acquire that player is too much for a 'rental'.

Now would they like move where we trade a pick or prospect to a cap strapped team for a salary dump vet? Maybe. Season hasn't started yet. Still some moves to come from cap strapped teams. I honestly would be in favor of a move for Versteeg, depending on the cost. I'm sure Ladd would like being reunited with his good buddy steeger.

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08-09-2014, 12:49 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
First, is that what the players read between the lines from Chevy's inactivity? Second, if that is how they interpret it, do they buy it?

The players all know where this same roster ended last season. They all know they have the worst starting goaltender in the league. They all (I certainly hope) believe in themselves as players. Do they have equal faith in ALL of their teammates? I doubt that. They are most likely all pretty much aware of their teammates strengths and weaknesses.



Why do some people appear to see the choices as being only between do nothing or do something stupid?

What would the players want? An NHL quality starting goaltender for one. NHL quality linemates (for Kane for example) for another. A 4th line that scares the opposition more than it scares its own team for another. None of those things was beyond reach this off-season. None of those things required trading the future for 'over the hill' veteran players.



Possible. Even likely. They may also see that as a faint hope.



Well since this off-season is aimed directly at another 9th place draft position I don't see how they can see this off-season any way but poorly. They are even more likely than fans to be impatient. Being able to see a better team on the horizon 2 or 3 or 4 years from now means less to them than it does to you. I'm pretty sure they are all aware of how short their career expectations likely are. They are hyper competitive individuals. That's what got them to where they are. Tomorrow be damned, they want to win now!
What goaltender, who is available, would make a significant difference at this point? We weren't going to get Miller, and are the other goalies that have moved would they have made that much of a difference? Obviously Chevy and co don't feel they would.

Perreault would likely be seen as an upgrade to Olli by the players, I'm sure.

Growth from Scheifele, Trouba, Bogo, Kane and others would be the where the older core sees opportunity.

Only question mark may be the Frolik signing, but the players would talk. They would know what the situation is with him far more than us speculating.

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08-09-2014, 01:16 PM
  #62
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What goaltender, who is available, would make a significant difference at this point? We weren't going to get Miller, and are the other goalies that have moved would they have made that much of a difference? Obviously Chevy and co don't feel they would.
They had a goalie who had demonstrated a clear improvement over Pavs. All they had to do was sign him and then BUYOUT PAVELEC. Obviously Chevy and co don't recognize their goaltending problem.

Quote:
Perreault would likely be seen as an upgrade to Olli by the players, I'm sure.

Growth from Scheifele, Trouba, Bogo, Kane and others would be the where the older core sees opportunity.
Players are as capable of blind optimism as anyone else. Some of the players would probably agree with you. I think not too many. JMO

Quote:
Only question mark may be the Frolik signing, but the players would talk. They would know what the situation is with him far more than us speculating.
The only question mark? Really?

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08-09-2014, 11:44 PM
  #63
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Chevys doing all he can. Hes throwing out huge inflated contracts and making trade offers left right and center, only to be nixed by NTCs and the simple utter refusal to live and play hockey in Winnipeg.

[mod] the only thing.. and a big thing at that.. Winnipeg has going for it are the fans, the economy and the people, and that is an inside job that only those who live here and have been around here know about.. this town having the greatest fans.. too bad that doesn't attract people like Prongers wife.


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08-10-2014, 07:22 AM
  #64
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Who cares what the medicore at best core likes or doesn't like, they won't be around when and if the winning starts. I am far more concerned about the current young players and drafted players.

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08-10-2014, 10:29 PM
  #65
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I don't think anybody wants them to open their yap. I do wonder what they think though.
Not in public, at any rate. A player can yawn in the wrong key in public, and be news for years.

My impression is that "exit interviews" are conducted with players at the end of the season. Reality dictates that it might be the team representatives conveying expectations to the players, but I imagine once in a while an enlightened manager might get the player's wishes as part of a conversation.

That type of conversation would best be kept confidential, if you can imagine one player discussing that some boat anchor best be thrown overboard...

...lovely to speculate about that stuff on line, but it isn't best to criticize in public.

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08-10-2014, 10:35 PM
  #66
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This is necessarily a pretty speculative subject. We do have a little evidence though. Kane apparently wants out sooner rather than later and Chevy was unable to sign Frolik for reasons unknown. Neither of these can be definitely or directly linked to the Jets immediate prospects but it isn't unreasonable to speculate that these things would different if the Jets were moving briskly towards becoming contenders.
I've never heard that from Kane.

Sports reporters need filler sometimes.

People complain about canned interviews and pat answers from players. If someone deviates from that boring script, there is hell to pay.

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08-10-2014, 10:41 PM
  #67
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Neither player is worth the money + term coming to them. Combined they'll fetch nearly a quarter of our current payroll over years their talent depreciates. Trouba & Scheifele are up for raises that same summer. Even if they opt for bridge deals it's another 4-5 million added to maintain the status quo.

Re-sign Frolik and there's no flexibility left to add anything of significance to the Jets without subtracting key pieces. The Jets cap will have been pushed to the limits before the roster has even made a playoff appearance.
I think the market dictates the money and term coming to them. Doesn't that exactly define their worth?

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08-11-2014, 06:33 AM
  #68
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People complain about canned interviews and pat answers from players. If someone deviates from that boring script, there is hell to pay.
If you want to characterize Kane being asked point blank "Do you like playing in Winnipeg?" and answering with "Well, I'm a Winnipeg Jet right now" as him "deviating from a boring script" that's great. Surely you will admit that its very possible to interpret that another way though no?

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08-11-2014, 08:19 AM
  #69
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I've never heard that from Kane.

Sports reporters need filler sometimes.

People complain about canned interviews and pat answers from players. If someone deviates from that boring script, there is hell to pay.
Therefore the word "apparently". You've never heard that he doesn't want out either.

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08-11-2014, 08:41 AM
  #70
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Bias in what way? Against Kane? I think he's a good player and I'd love to have a motivated, "bought in" Evander Kane on the Winnipeg Jets. However, when a player in his position - a player who could very well be a key "face" of the franchise - quite literally refuses to give any sort of love to his fan base when he is given repeated obvious opportunity to do so, I tend to interpret that as more than just a bit of a preference to play elsewhere. That, combined with the dance routine Chevy has performed recently when he's been asked about it, leads me to the conclusion that Kane is actively and explicitly seeking a trade and that Chevy hasn't yet managed to swing a deal. I think Kane is now pretty frustrated by the situation and I wouldn't be at all surprised if things go south as the season approaches. I'm really not biased against Kane. I'm just reading tea leaves like everybody else and that's the way it looks to me...

Just a bit of an aside that maybe relates to some of this - I just got back from a little family road trip to Edmonton. Driving around there I was struck by how huge the city seems. I mean it really felt like a big city. The freeways are large and pretty complex and as you drive around it feels like you are moving through a bunch of separate and distinct centres. Getting back to Winnipeg yesterday it just feels like a much much smaller center. Some of that is familiarity of course, but not all of it. I can only imagine how tiny this city feels to somebody who has lived in say Chicago or New York or Vancouver. For some folks that might be a positive. I like Winnipeg. Even somebody from a bigger city might like a smaller feel. But not all of them. I imagine there are certainly people who thrive on that big city sensibility and I think Kane is probably like that. I think he has a hard time with the Small town vibe of Winnipeg...

So you admit that you're just making stuff up then?

The reality is that you have no clue how Kane feels about playing for the Jets, and you're just speculating the same ideas that all of the media driven BS has produced.

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08-11-2014, 09:23 AM
  #71
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IF they are talking about a 'soft tank' behind closed doors, and players are aware, then they may understand its best for the long-term success of the franchise, but not necessarily a fit for their career. But if they are able to pick a franchise player in 2015, I think many of those players will want to be apart of the future.

It's finishing 20th or 21st overall, again, with no playoff prospects and not low enough for a 'better' draft pick. If that happens again, then I see guys leaving in FA or requesting to be moved. It's a never ending cycle of futility. Until it gets blown up, but that takes a few years.
On the bold part, I really don't think players think that way at all. A player would never be on board with any kind of tank strategy. These guys are elite athletes who've competed at the highest level their entire life. Plus, they know their careers are finite. They pretty much all want to win, and win now. Getting McDavid isn't worth missing the playoffs next season to a player.

On the second part, I do agree. If it's another season out of the playoffs, which no changes made and no plan apparent, it wouldn't be out of line for guys to want to move on from this.

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08-11-2014, 09:50 AM
  #72
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I'd be very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very surprised if any of the top players -- the ones who would not be replaced by someone new coming in -- see Chevy's inactivity as positive. I can't even believe any fan, even the most delusional ones, would actually seriously think the players would see that positively. I think when talking among themselves, the players are much, much, much, much, much more likely to say, "WTF?!?!?!?!?!?!?!"
So, which of their core teammates do you think they want Chevy to move?

I think that the players had been looking for a coaching change, and they seem very happy with Maurice at the helm. My guess is that they would like to see how the team gels under him more than wanting to admit that they aren't good enough as a group to compete.

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08-11-2014, 10:35 AM
  #73
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Not in public, at any rate. A player can yawn in the wrong key in public, and be news for years.

My impression is that "exit interviews" are conducted with players at the end of the season. Reality dictates that it might be the team representatives conveying expectations to the players, but I imagine once in a while an enlightened manager might get the player's wishes as part of a conversation.

That type of conversation would best be kept confidential, if you can imagine one player discussing that some boat anchor best be thrown overboard...
Generally this is my understanding of the end of season player sit down. A back and forth between the player and the team as to what the player needs to do, work on, improve at, etc. I really doubt IMO that you would ever get a player in his own end of season sit down, cutting down a team mate or telling management they need to jettison someone.

Remember, these are really "end of season" or "performance reviews" if you like, where it is assumed you will be back next season and still have to "work" with your team mates, and not a true "exit interview". An exit interview is when you are leaving the organization and that's when you get to say bad things about your boss or co-workers, if you so feel the need.

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08-11-2014, 11:01 AM
  #74
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So you admit that you're just making stuff up then?

The reality is that you have no clue how Kane feels about playing for the Jets, and you're just speculating the same ideas that all of the media driven BS has produced.
Yeah, I'm just drawing conclusions based on what little info I have...just like anyone else on this forum including you. I don't give a rats as what any particular media member thinks. I hear a question Kane is asked and I hear his answer and I try and guess what the answer means. I have lots of "clues" about how Kane feels about playing for the jets. You listen to his answers and interpret them differently than I do apparently. This is just a hockey fan forum. None of us are actually making decisions for the jets.

I wonder, is anyone in these discussions not just making stuff up?

Look, afaic when Kane is asked point blank if he likes playing in Winnipeg, the only reason for him to not answer "yes I like playing in Winnipeg" is if he can't bring himself to lie. If he likes playing in Winnipeg, why wouldn't he simply answer "sure I like playing in Winnipeg." Same goes for Chevy when he's asked if Kane has requested a trade - if the answer in no, why in God's name would Chevy waste time obfuscating?? Those 2 clues lead me to believe Kane doesn't much like playing in Winnipeg and has asked to be traded.


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08-11-2014, 11:25 AM
  #75
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Yeah, I'm just drawing conclusions based on what little info I have...just like anyone else on this forum including you. I don't give a rats as what any particular media member thinks. I hear a question Kane is asked and I hear his answer and I try and guess what the answer means. I have lots of "clues" about how Kane feels about playing for the jets. You listen to his answers and interpret them differently than I do apparently. This is just a hockey fan forum. None of us are actually making decisions for the jets.
I absolutely understand your position, I just grow weary of the amount of people who shout 'KANE WANTS OUT' and present it as factual.

I can see why people might think that, but I just don't see it. It doesn't help that the media constantly perpetuates this myth.

Either way, I wasn't trying to attack you personally. I probably should have added a little more substance to my post

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