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Do the current core members of the Winnipeg Jets approve of their GM's inactivity?

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Old
08-11-2014, 02:09 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by SensibleGuy View Post
Yeah, I'm just drawing conclusions based on what little info I have...just like anyone else on this forum including you. I don't give a rats as what any particular media member thinks. I hear a question Kane is asked and I hear his answer and I try and guess what the answer means. I have lots of "clues" about how Kane feels about playing for the jets. You listen to his answers and interpret them differently than I do apparently. This is just a hockey fan forum. None of us are actually making decisions for the jets.

I wonder, is anyone in these discussions not just making stuff up?

Look, afaic when Kane is asked point blank if he likes playing in Winnipeg, the only reason for him to not answer "yes I like playing in Winnipeg" is if he can't bring himself to lie. If he likes playing in Winnipeg, why wouldn't he simply answer "sure I like playing in Winnipeg." Same goes for Chevy when he's asked if Kane has requested a trade - if the answer in no, why in God's name would Chevy waste time obfuscating?? Those 2 clues lead me to believe Kane doesn't much like playing in Winnipeg and has asked to be traded.
Where you lose me in this is where Kane not being able to say "I like playing in Winnipeg" means "I HATE Winnipeg and I want out NOW"

For all we know Kane doesn't like playing in Winnipeg because he is frustrated with the losing. None of us know that. For you to say KANE HATES WINNIPEG is unbelievably presumptuous and someone who isn't showing bias would not come to that conclusion.

JMO

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08-11-2014, 02:33 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
Therefore the word "apparently". You've never heard that he doesn't want out either.
There are 23 players on the Winnipeg Jets roster that I have never heard that they don't want out of Winnipeg.

i think the issue most have is the way the "kane wants out" gets repeated.

In human psych it's called "the illusion of truth".

It's hearsay/fluff, but it gets picked up and repeated so frequently it eventually gets undue weight attached to it.

Politician's and advertisers rely on people to behave this way. the more we hear something repeated around us as truth (even if we know it is not) the more likely we are to believe it.

Eventually a lie, a message, a slogan, etc, becomes so prevalent in the "background noise" around us that we start accepting it. We know that initially we distrusted it, but we may eventually find our mind has changed. Then, when we remember that we didn't trust it originally, we explain it away with a "oh no, then something else must have happened that proved this to be true, something i just can't remember right now..." ...even though nothings happened.

The Kane wants out rumors were never based on more then someones interpretation of Kane not behaving in the cookie cutter hockey player way.

Add the fact that he's obviously brash and people become more and more connected to the lie that Kane wants out.

as far as i can tell.. the only evidence that "kane wants out" is that he stated a fact.

"well i'm a winnipeg jet for now so ...blah...blah...blah".

so we have

A) a ringing endorsement when he signed his contract (see trucks quote on the last page)

B) the statement of a fact ("i am a winnipeg jet for now")

and

C)a whole tonne of interpretation and speculation.


There is factual evidence that Kane does or at the very least DID like playing here.

There is no factual evidence that Kane at any point in the past or currently wants to be moved.



Don't let "the illusion of truth" sway your opinion.

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08-11-2014, 02:40 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
So, which of their core teammates do you think they want Chevy to move?

I think that the players had been looking for a coaching change, and they seem very happy with Maurice at the helm. My guess is that they would like to see how the team gels under him more than wanting to admit that they aren't good enough as a group to compete.
Start the list with Pavelec. If the list ends at Pavelec, that is still significant improvement.

I think you're right about being happy Mo is on board, I don't think they bought into Noel as more than an amusement. And certainly in public they all say they "think" they have the players to compete for the playoffs. But I think in private, if they are being honest with themselves, they will add more names to the list than just Pavelec. They see 29 other third and fourth lines during the season; there's no way they think their own can stack up against all of them -- or even half of them -- favourably.


Last edited by Board Bard: 08-11-2014 at 02:45 PM. Reason: Split personality wants equal time.
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Old
08-11-2014, 02:44 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Grind View Post
There are 23 players on the Winnipeg Jets roster that I have never heard that they don't want out of Winnipeg.

i think the issue most have is the way the "kane wants out" gets repeated.

In human psych it's called "the illusion of truth".

It's hearsay/fluff, but it gets picked up and repeated so frequently it eventually gets undue weight attached to it.

Politician's and advertisers rely on people to behave this way. the more we hear something repeated around us as truth (even if we know it is not) the more likely we are to believe it.

Eventually a lie, a message, a slogan, etc, becomes so prevalent in the "background noise" around us that we start accepting it. We know that initially we distrusted it, but we may eventually find our mind has changed. Then, when we remember that we didn't trust it originally, we explain it away with a "oh no, then something else must have happened that proved this to be true, something i just can't remember right now..." ...even though nothings happened.

The Kane wants out rumors were never based on more then someones interpretation of Kane not behaving in the cookie cutter hockey player way.

Add the fact that he's obviously brash and people become more and more connected to the lie that Kane wants out.

as far as i can tell.. the only evidence that "kane wants out" is that he stated a fact.

"well i'm a winnipeg jet for now so ...blah...blah...blah".

so we have

A) a ringing endorsement when he signed his contract (see trucks quote on the last page)

B) the statement of a fact ("i am a winnipeg jet for now")

and

C)a whole tonne of interpretation and speculation.


There is factual evidence that Kane does or at the very least DID like playing here.

There is no factual evidence that Kane at any point in the past or currently wants to be moved.



Don't let "the illusion of truth" sway your opinion.
I'm fully aware of that illusion factor. It was more than just that 1 interview with Kane. I think Chevy's failure to deny that Kane has asked for a trade carries more weight. That said "Kane wants out" is more apparent than real or confirmed. Thus my use of the word. My personal 'gut feeling' is that Kane wants to play on a team that is more competitive. So no rush to trade him yet. If we can become more competitive in the next year or 2 he will be happy to stay. If not I think the need to trade him grows as his term is used up.

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08-11-2014, 02:52 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
I'm fully aware of that illusion factor. It was more than just that 1 interview with Kane. I think Chevy's failure to deny that Kane has asked for a trade carries more weight. That said "Kane wants out" is more apparent than real or confirmed. Thus my use of the word. My personal 'gut feeling' is that Kane wants to play on a team that is more competitive. So no rush to trade him yet. If we can become more competitive in the next year or 2 he will be happy to stay. If not I think the need to trade him grows as his term is used up.
I know it was more then just the one interview, but the point was none of it has been a "factual" occurance.

I think KC hasn't said "he's not trading kane" because i don't think KC would ever give an answer that direct. If you give that answer once and you trade him because you get a good deal then all of a sudden everyone's going to assume "no i'm not trading him" means "yes i'm trading him" or vice versa.


I think the bolded is very fair. Hopefully we can be that team, but i'm not optimistic about this season.

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Old
08-11-2014, 03:17 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Grind View Post

The Kane wants out rumors were never based on more then someones interpretation of Kane not behaving in the cookie cutter hockey player way.
yeah yeah I know. People keep telling me he's such a wild maverick who simply refuses to utter a cliche response. Fine whatever. If that's all it is then great. Nothing to see here. Kane's a happy camper and all the smoke is just smoke...

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08-11-2014, 03:18 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Grind View Post
I know it was more then just the one interview, but the point was none of it has been a "factual" occurance.

I think KC hasn't said "he's not trading kane" because i don't think KC would ever give an answer that direct. If you give that answer once and you trade him because you get a good deal then all of a sudden everyone's going to assume "no i'm not trading him" means "yes i'm trading him" or vice versa.


I think the bolded is very fair. Hopefully we can be that team, but i'm not optimistic about this season.
Chevy gave a direct answer last year when he was asked if Kane had requested a trade. He said "No." Its easy to do when the answer actually IS "No."

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Old
08-11-2014, 03:27 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Grind View Post
I know it was more then just the one interview, but the point was none of it has been a "factual" occurance.

I think KC hasn't said "he's not trading kane" because i don't think KC would ever give an answer that direct. If you give that answer once and you trade him because you get a good deal then all of a sudden everyone's going to assume "no i'm not trading him" means "yes i'm trading him" or vice versa.


I think the bolded is very fair. Hopefully we can be that team, but i'm not optimistic about this season.
The problem is that the question was not are you trading Kane. It was has Kane asked for a trade. Quite different. But the answer was still ambiguous enough to leave everyone at least a little uncertain. Maybe Kane's trade request was ambivalent. Maybe he said something like "improve this team or trade me".

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Old
08-11-2014, 03:30 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by SensibleGuy View Post
Chevy gave a direct answer last year when he was asked if Kane had requested a trade. He said "No." Its easy to do when the answer actually IS "No."
well that's fair.

I still think the smoke is from dry ice.

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08-11-2014, 03:32 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by SensibleGuy View Post
If you want to characterize Kane being asked point blank "Do you like playing in Winnipeg?" and answering with "Well, I'm a Winnipeg Jet right now" as him "deviating from a boring script" that's great. Surely you will admit that its very possible to interpret that another way though no?
Sure, I'll readily admit that it MIGHT.

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Old
08-14-2014, 09:30 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind View Post
There are 23 players on the Winnipeg Jets roster that I have never heard that they don't want out of Winnipeg.

i think the issue most have is the way the "kane wants out" gets repeated.

In human psych it's called "the illusion of truth".

It's hearsay/fluff, but it gets picked up and repeated so frequently it eventually gets undue weight attached to it.

Politician's and advertisers rely on people to behave this way. the more we hear something repeated around us as truth (even if we know it is not) the more likely we are to believe it.

Eventually a lie, a message, a slogan, etc, becomes so prevalent in the "background noise" around us that we start accepting it. We know that initially we distrusted it, but we may eventually find our mind has changed. Then, when we remember that we didn't trust it originally, we explain it away with a "oh no, then something else must have happened that proved this to be true, something i just can't remember right now..." ...even though nothings happened.

The Kane wants out rumors were never based on more then someones interpretation of Kane not behaving in the cookie cutter hockey player way.

Add the fact that he's obviously brash and people become more and more connected to the lie that Kane wants out.

as far as i can tell.. the only evidence that "kane wants out" is that he stated a fact.

"well i'm a winnipeg jet for now so ...blah...blah...blah".

so we have

A) a ringing endorsement when he signed his contract (see trucks quote on the last page)

B) the statement of a fact ("i am a winnipeg jet for now")

and

C)a whole tonne of interpretation and speculation.


There is factual evidence that Kane does or at the very least DID like playing here.

There is no factual evidence that Kane at any point in the past or currently wants to be moved.



Don't let "the illusion of truth" sway your opinion.
Thank you for this post. There is way too much funny math being used around here to come to the sum that KANE HATES WINNIPEG.

It's bizarre.

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08-14-2014, 09:46 AM
  #87
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Kane signed that long term deal. If that doesn't say I want to play here I don't know what does.

Sure he could change his mind but the easiest thing for him to do was not sign that deal and wait it out or force their hand. He didn't do that

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08-14-2014, 10:00 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
Kane signed that long term deal. If that doesn't say I want to play here I don't know what does.

Sure he could change his mind but the easiest thing for him to do was not sign that deal and wait it out or force their hand. He didn't do that
Agreed.

It is certain, though, that he's frustrated with the situation. Who knows what he was sold in the process of signing that contract. I'm sure that in his mind he's a first line LW, and that as a passionate (..maybe hotheaded) competitor he wants to spend those prime years being a part of something successful. He locked them up with Winnipeg and then has been watching the relative inactivity of management in improving this team, not to mention more than one garbage linemate he's had to play with.

I think it only natural that he's unhappy. It would be weird if he wasn't, and I wouldn't put it past him to share those feelings with management.

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08-14-2014, 10:37 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by PocketHoquet View Post
Agreed.

It is certain, though, that he's frustrated with the situation. Who knows what he was sold in the process of signing that contract. I'm sure that in his mind he's a first line LW, and that as a passionate (..maybe hotheaded) competitor he wants to spend those prime years being a part of something successful. He locked them up with Winnipeg and then has been watching the relative inactivity of management in improving this team, not to mention more than one garbage linemate he's had to play with.

I think it only natural that he's unhappy. It would be weird if he wasn't, and I wouldn't put it past him to share those feelings with management.
Yes to the bolded part.

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08-14-2014, 12:37 PM
  #90
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Thank you for this post. There is way too much funny math being used around here to come to the sum that KANE HATES WINNIPEG.

It's bizarre.
Thank you, Jet. All of the KANE HATES WINNIPEG, KANE WANTS OUT rhetoric drives me insane. Even all of the more recent media articles slamming Chevy allude that Kane will be traded (as if it's a certainty).

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08-14-2014, 01:40 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
Kane signed that long term deal. If that doesn't say I want to play here I don't know what does.

Sure he could change his mind but the easiest thing for him to do was not sign that deal and wait it out or force their hand. He didn't do that
Well said, Joe.

I think Evander intends to play out that contract. He may not like the direction the club is going (no playoffs, no bold moves to improve the current roster and team) or how he has been used (3rd line winger at times, with limited pp minutes), but he'll be a professional and play, IMO.

After that, I think he goes to FA to pick where he wants to play and at what salary. Only thing that may keep him here then is if he's playing with a legit star and/or the Jets are on the cusp of potentially WINNING cups. Even then, I don't think he resigns, at that point.

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08-14-2014, 02:22 PM
  #92
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Start the list with Pavelec. If the list ends at Pavelec, that is still significant improvement.

I think you're right about being happy Mo is on board, I don't think they bought into Noel as more than an amusement. And certainly in public they all say they "think" they have the players to compete for the playoffs. But I think in private, if they are being honest with themselves, they will add more names to the list than just Pavelec. They see 29 other third and fourth lines during the season; there's no way they think their own can stack up against all of them -- or even half of them -- favourably.
I agree that many of the players probably know that they need better goaltending than Pavs provides. I think they know they need an upgrade in net.

I am not sure that they are as concerned about the 3rd and 4th lines. I actually think that a line that features Kane and Perreault is going to eat up a lot of 3rd lines around the NHL. The Jets really started to improve last year when Scheifele was able to make the jump up to a 2nd line role, with Jokinen on the 3rd line. I expect Scheifele to continue to improve, and Perreault has already shown that he can dominate 3rd line match-ups. With Kane or Buff on the 3rd line with him, I am not as worried about the Jets matching up with most other teams.

The 4th line might be able to hold its own with Slater anchoring it.

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08-14-2014, 02:25 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
Kane signed that long term deal. If that doesn't say I want to play here I don't know what does.

Sure he could change his mind but the easiest thing for him to do was not sign that deal and wait it out or force their hand. He didn't do that
I agree, though I think Kane is probably keen on reaching UFA, and I wouldn't be surprised if he is looking to move to another franchise at that point.

I think that the Jets' management will have a very good read on Kane's long-term plans, and if they don't see him re-signing before UFA, they'll try to move him when the return is still very high.

The more complicated question is whether they'll do that with Ladd or Buff, who seem more likely to re-sign with the Jets for the longer term.

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Old
08-14-2014, 02:30 PM
  #94
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I agree that many of the players probably know that they need better goaltending than Pavs provides. I think they know they need an upgrade in net.

I am not sure that they are as concerned about the 3rd and 4th lines. I actually think that a line that features Kane and Perreault is going to eat up a lot of 3rd lines around the NHL. The Jets really started to improve last year when Scheifele was able to make the jump up to a 2nd line role, with Jokinen on the 3rd line. I expect Scheifele to continue to improve, and Perreault has already shown that he can dominate 3rd line match-ups. With Kane or Buff on the 3rd line with him, I am not as worried about the Jets matching up with most other teams.

The 4th line might be able to hold its own with Slater anchoring it.
The 4th line looks pretty good if it is Galiardi/Slater/Tangradi.
Not so good if it is Halischuk/Slater/Thorburn.
GST = good
HST = bad
Can that be?

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08-14-2014, 02:50 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
The 4th line looks pretty good if it is Galiardi/Slater/Tangradi.
Not so good if it is Halischuk/Slater/Thorburn.
GST = good
HST = bad
Can that be?


GST! GST! GST!

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08-19-2014, 03:25 PM
  #96
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Unless Ladd favoriting that tweet was a Twitter glitch, I think we have answer to OP's question...

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08-19-2014, 03:32 PM
  #97
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tweet favorited,

Quote:
Alan @sliiiiip 17h

I just found a video that sums up the #NHLJets offseason magnificently! http://youtu.be/u0B9Fc6LgMo

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08-19-2014, 04:09 PM
  #98
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Meh.

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08-19-2014, 05:52 PM
  #99
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OMG!!! Now the media is trying to run Ladd out of town!!!!!

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08-19-2014, 07:49 PM
  #100
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Well maybe it was a honest mistake, or maybe Ladd is a bit ticked at the lack of activity this off-season.

Honestly, I think he's ticked. And this is a subtle way of saying so to TNSE. We can all just "laugh it off" as a mistake, but the players and fans want more. The time to put on the big boy pants, is now.

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