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AHL West Discussion Thread - OKC, Norfolk, ADK?

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Old
08-26-2014, 12:06 AM
  #51
Tommy Hawk
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Originally Posted by aparch View Post
Sorry. I don't know the specifics of the LA Kings deal, but I would think a local group runs the day to day operations for the LA Kings, but I could be wrong in that the LA Kings bankroll the whole Manchester front office.

So maybe LA was a bad example, so to correct my simplified explanation: an AHL team management group, where the franchise is owned by the NHL, but operated by a local group, could look into purchasing another AHL franchise.
They could but this is the same situation throughout the AHL. Someone (most likely 6 places) will end up losing their team.

You would have been better with the Canucks/Utica or Flames/Adirondack example.

Problem is still if the Nucks and Flames pull their teams, where will Utica and Adirondack get their teams? They woulld have to buy the from someone that owns them already and I doubt they will shell out the 4 to 6 million or more to buy a team. They may be able to talk one of the other NHL owned teams to move such s NJD or NYR or NYI but then Hartford/Albany/Bridgeort would lose teams.

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08-26-2014, 07:11 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Tommy Hawk View Post
They could but this is the same situation throughout the AHL. Someone (most likely 6 places) will end up losing their team.

You would have been better with the Canucks/Utica or Flames/Adirondack example.

Problem is still if the Nucks and Flames pull their teams, where will Utica and Adirondack get their teams? They woulld have to buy the from someone that owns them already and I doubt they will shell out the 4 to 6 million or more to buy a team. They may be able to talk one of the other NHL owned teams to move such s NJD or NYR or NYI but then Hartford/Albany/Bridgeort would lose teams.
Albany and Hartford have low attendance as it is.........

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08-26-2014, 02:51 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Hawk View Post
They could but this is the same situation throughout the AHL. Someone (most likely 6 places) will end up losing their team.

You would have been better with the Canucks/Utica or Flames/Adirondack example.

Problem is still if the Nucks and Flames pull their teams, where will Utica and Adirondack get their teams? They woulld have to buy the from someone that owns them already and I doubt they will shell out the 4 to 6 million or more to buy a team. They may be able to talk one of the other NHL owned teams to move such s NJD or NYR or NYI but then Hartford/Albany/Bridgeort would lose teams.

"Tommy Hawk":


As per your comment on 6 teams in the east will lose their teams~!!!!

Where would those 6 teams play (in what cities) on the west coast??????

I have an idea on some but not all the cities out west...

Thank you "Tommy Hawk"...............

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Old
08-26-2014, 02:53 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by go comets View Post
Albany and Hartford have low attendance as it is.........
??? Not sure how this relates. He gave Manchester as an example of the NHL team owning the franchise and a local group running it. Manchester is not that operating model but Utica and Adirondack are that model that is why I cited them. Albany is not that model.

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08-27-2014, 09:41 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Tommy Hawk View Post
??? Not sure how this relates. He gave Manchester as an example of the NHL team owning the franchise and a local group running it. Manchester is not that operating model but Utica and Adirondack are that model that is why I cited them. Albany is not that model.
I think it was in reference to the point that markets that lose their teams to the westward migration (like Manchester) could potentially gain another AHL team from a weaker eastern market (like Hartford or Albany).

I know the Rangers/MSG aren't happy that their AHL team plays in an arena that is managed by SMG. There was some speculation last silly season that the Rangers may move their team to another market where they can also serve as arena manager.

Anyone know what the arena management contract status is for Manchester?

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08-30-2014, 12:55 AM
  #56
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would be pretty bummed if the Monarchs left Manchester. Been going to the games since day 1(well not all of them obviously) and it would be tough to see them go. But I would guess a team would move right in if they did leave. Manchester has a very strong fanbase.

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09-26-2014, 02:10 PM
  #57
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If AHL goes West, would Abbotsford be a potential market again? IIRC, one of the biggest reasons for them folding was geographical situation.

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09-27-2014, 01:49 AM
  #58
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If AHL goes West, would Abbotsford be a potential market again? IIRC, one of the biggest reasons for them folding was geographical situation.
It depends where the new teams were located. The LA area is over 1000 miles from Abbotsford, so Ontario or SD are still far away.

Milwaukee to Rochester is about 700 driving miles for comparison. They went 7 years without playing each other. Teams in Seattle (120 miles), Portland (291 miles or 5 hours) or Spokane (247 miles) would be much closer.

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09-27-2014, 07:53 AM
  #59
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If AHL goes West, would Abbotsford be a potential market again? IIRC, one of the biggest reasons for them folding was geographical situation.
What was the name of that movie that Robert Downey Jr was in when he was in his teens or early twenties where he played a drug addict based on that book. I would say that's the same odds of Abbotsford coming back.

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09-29-2014, 06:16 PM
  #60
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From the ECHL thread, but possibly relevant to AHL folks:
http://www.recordnet.com/article/201...NEWS/140929560

If San Jose buys Stockton, can we start to believe that the AHL West thing is happening?

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09-29-2014, 09:56 PM
  #61
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I didn't notice anything about SJ buying an ECHL team in that link.

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09-30-2014, 03:43 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Hoodaha View Post
From the ECHL thread, but possibly relevant to AHL folks:
http://www.recordnet.com/article/201...NEWS/140929560

If San Jose buys Stockton, can we start to believe that the AHL West thing is happening?
"He has listed the franchise with Park Lane of Los Angeles, the same investment bank that handled the sale from original Stockton Thunder owner Michael Reinsdorf to Rowbotham."

I'm thinking the word would be out in the hockey world and the Sharks or anyone else would have an opportunity to purchase them before going to market. I know sales are more complicated than that but in light of the "westward movement", it would seem that the western teams that TH refers to would like to lock up cities and venues.

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09-30-2014, 01:10 PM
  #63
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Not sure why you are talking about Stockton since they are NOT an AHL franchise. The only reason to discuss them would be in the context of of SJ moving their AHl affiliate to Stockton and moving their ECHL affiliate to Worcester which would require both leagues approval, the approval of both arenas and municipalities.

"Switching" is not as easy as most people on this forum think.

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09-30-2014, 01:49 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Tommy Hawk View Post
Not sure why you are talking about Stockton since they are NOT an AHL franchise. The only reason to discuss them would be in the context of of SJ moving their AHl affiliate to Stockton and moving their ECHL affiliate to Worcester which would require both leagues approval, the approval of both arenas and municipalities.

"Switching" is not as easy as most people on this forum think.
Not easy, but if the NHL teams want to do it enough, they can certainly put a ton of pressure on the AHL.

IF San Jose were to buy Stockton, I don't think that moving the AHL franchise would be all that hard. They just need the approval of the board of governors, no? There are other Western teams looking to move, so they'd rubber stamp the move...plus many other NHL teams own AHL franchises. I doubt they'd say "no" to another NHL team (or group of NHL teams). It's been publically stated that San Jose has an out on the lease in Worcester ("That lease included an option for San Jose to leave after the 2014-15 season if certain economic benchmarks were not met, and they were not.", from http://www.telegram.com/article/2014...309059663/1009).

In terms of the ECHL, their options after AHL approval would be either allowing the swap and moving the ECHL Stockton franchise to Worcester OR having one less ECHL team. I think they'd say yes to that swap.

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09-30-2014, 01:59 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by 6768clintoncomets575 View Post
"He has listed the franchise with Park Lane of Los Angeles, the same investment bank that handled the sale from original Stockton Thunder owner Michael Reinsdorf to Rowbotham."

I'm thinking the word would be out in the hockey world and the Sharks or anyone else would have an opportunity to purchase them before going to market. I know sales are more complicated than that but in light of the "westward movement", it would seem that the western teams that TH refers to would like to lock up cities and venues.
I assume that he knows that the winds are blowing towards a Western AHL division, so he's publically putting it on the market hoping that a few NHL teams will put in bids. If the AHL west rumors are true, he'll never have higher demand for his ECHL franchise than he will now.

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09-30-2014, 03:47 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Hoodaha View Post
Not easy, but if the NHL teams want to do it enough, they can certainly put a ton of pressure on the AHL.

IF San Jose were to buy Stockton, I don't think that moving the AHL franchise would be all that hard. They just need the approval of the board of governors, no? There are other Western teams looking to move, so they'd rubber stamp the move...plus many other NHL teams own AHL franchises. I doubt they'd say "no" to another NHL team (or group of NHL teams). It's been publically stated that San Jose has an out on the lease in Worcester ("That lease included an option for San Jose to leave after the 2014-15 season if certain economic benchmarks were not met, and they were not.", from http://www.telegram.com/article/2014...309059663/1009).

In terms of the ECHL, their options after AHL approval would be either allowing the swap and moving the ECHL Stockton franchise to Worcester OR having one less ECHL team. I think they'd say yes to that swap.
There's zero way that an SJ ECHL team will go into Worcester.

I think it costs $$$ to allow an ECHL team go dormant - if I remember when the IceCats franchise was sold and moved to Peoria, The owner of the ECHL Rivermen had to pay the ECHL? Maybe someone can help me out with that one...

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09-30-2014, 05:06 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoodaha View Post
I assume that he knows that the winds are blowing towards a Western AHL division, so he's publically putting it on the market hoping that a few NHL teams will put in bids. If the AHL west rumors are true, he'll never have higher demand for his ECHL franchise than he will now.
His ECHL team is virtually worthless to NHL teams. The only thing an NHL team could possibly care about is his building lease, and it's easier and likely cheaper just to deal with SMG (operator of the Stockton Arena).

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09-30-2014, 06:16 PM
  #68
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There's zero way that an SJ ECHL team will go into Worcester.

I think it costs $$$ to allow an ECHL team go dormant - if I remember when the IceCats franchise was sold and moved to Peoria, The owner of the ECHL Rivermen had to pay the ECHL? Maybe someone can help me out with that one...
But what about a Bruins-affiliated ECHL team? How well would that be received in Worcester?

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09-30-2014, 06:23 PM
  #69
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But what about a Bruins-affiliated ECHL team? How well would that be received in Worcester?
That would have at least a marginal chance of succeeding.

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09-30-2014, 07:18 PM
  #70
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His ECHL team is virtually worthless to NHL teams. The only thing an NHL team could possibly care about is his building lease, and it's easier and likely cheaper just to deal with SMG (operator of the Stockton Arena).
Exactly.

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09-30-2014, 07:21 PM
  #71
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But what about a Bruins-affiliated ECHL team? How well would that be received in Worcester?
Best chance but how many Bruins prospects would be there that didn't make the P Bruins? 3? 5? NHL ECHL affiliations are really not much.

I can't see any ECHL team succeeding in New England.

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09-30-2014, 07:46 PM
  #72
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But what about a Bruins-affiliated ECHL team? How well would that be received in Worcester?
I do think that will work. I think some the die-hard Worcester AHL fans will be sour about it, but overall you'll have more of casual local Bruins fans going to games. While the Worcester Sharks office does a great job, SJ hockey ops has done a number on the fan base.

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10-19-2014, 05:28 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 210 View Post
That would have at least a marginal chance of succeeding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed View Post
I do think that will work. I think some the die-hard Worcester AHL fans will be sour about it, but overall you'll have more of casual local Bruins fans going to games. While the Worcester Sharks office does a great job, SJ hockey ops has done a number on the fan base.
If Worcester ends up with an ECHL team out of all the upheaval, which I think they will, it'd be imperative that they be the Bruins affiliate. The New England cities that will be losing their AHL teams might be willing to support ECHL clubs, but not in all cases. Manchester would, not sure about Portland. If the possible Bridgeport to Long Island and Hartford to Bridgeport move happens, Hartford I think could have an ECHL team.

Worcester as a city seems committed to having pro hockey at the Centrum. I think they'll actively seek to get an ECHL team in there, and when they do, they'll do everything and anything to get an affiliation with the Bruins. That absolutely would lead to success for that potential franchise IMO.

The P-Bruins owner does own the NE Sports Center in Marlborough IIRC, and I thought I'd heard that he might be interested in having an ECHL franchise in Central MA at some point. This really couldn't be a better opportunity for that. My concern there is that they'd try to play at the NESC and not the Centrum.

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10-19-2014, 07:25 PM
  #74
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If Worcester ends up with an ECHL team out of all the upheaval, which I think they will, it'd be imperative that they be the Bruins affiliate. The New England cities that will be losing their AHL teams might be willing to support ECHL clubs, but not in all cases. Manchester would, not sure about Portland. If the possible Bridgeport to Long Island and Hartford to Bridgeport move happens, Hartford I think could have an ECHL team.

Worcester as a city seems committed to having pro hockey at the Centrum. I think they'll actively seek to get an ECHL team in there, and when they do, they'll do everything and anything to get an affiliation with the Bruins. That absolutely would lead to success for that potential franchise IMO.

The P-Bruins owner does own the NE Sports Center in Marlborough IIRC, and I thought I'd heard that he might be interested in having an ECHL franchise in Central MA at some point. This really couldn't be a better opportunity for that. My concern there is that they'd try to play at the NESC and not the Centrum.
Be interesting.

The thought of an ECHL team in Hartford succeeding, to me, seems far fetched.

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10-19-2014, 08:50 PM
  #75
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Be interesting.

The thought of an ECHL team in Hartford succeeding, to me, seems far fetched.
It's up in the air, but there is a strong hockey following in Hartford. As has been said here, there will be some AHL lifer-fans that might resent it, but I think the majority would still support an ECHL team in these cities. It won't just be a straight swap though, AHL for ECHL, that's for sure. There will be a city or two that is left with no team at all. Springfield is lucky that their affiliate is in Columbus now so they'll stay in the AHL. It's possible, though pretty unlikely IMO, that we see some of these other Eastern market AHL teams move to New England cities. Teams like Syracuse and Albany, they could move into Manchester or Worcester, though it's much more likely you see ECHL teams fill the voids. Scratch Norfolk, they're certainly going to move since they're Anaheim's affiliate.

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