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Oilers 2 Players Away From First NHL Team Since 2006

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Old
08-17-2014, 10:39 PM
  #76
McArthur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
There were rumblings MacTavish made the call on Berglund earlier in the off-season. (I think Elliott Friedman reported this in 30 thoughts) I'll be interested to see what the Blues end up doing once training camp comes around. Lots of bodies there, maybe someone steps up and Armstrong re-thinks moving Berglund. I think Berglund would round out our forward group nicely..

Hall - Nugent-Hopkins - Eberle
Perron - Berglund - Yakupov
Pouliot - Draisaitl/Arcobello - Purcell
Hendricks - Gordon - Gazdic

This would be the most balanced group of forwards we've had for a while..
maybe before sobotka left for the KHL.... I have to believe the reason a deal wasn't done was because the asking price was too high. our best selling feature is probably defensive prospects. its too bad, St. Louis would have been a good fit. Anyone know if Peter Mueller is reporting to training camp for St. Louis. He had quite the year overseas


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08-18-2014, 01:25 PM
  #77
Steve BachIntyre
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Originally Posted by Arpeggio View Post
The Oilers had a full roster the year Stortini - Brodziak - Glencross was the fourth line.
close enough hey.. JFJ on the 1st line to start the season kinda killed it tho.. MAP.. ouch another story..

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08-18-2014, 03:39 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Powder View Post
Just so you know, MacT said he wanted to try to assemble 3 scoring lines and have one d-zone line meaning Gordon would be on that d-zone line, NOT one of the 3 scoring lines.

Even most un-knowledgeable Oilers fans know that...but you apparently don't.
Nope, i knew that (also plainly obvious when you see the talented wingers in the top nine) and as i stated in my post; it is my belief that it was shown early last year that Gordon can support his wingers while also being the best player on the ice and putting up points.

Hendricks is a typical fourth centre with only defense to offer.

I will point out the complete ignorance of not having the strongest centre possible on a line with offensive players...unless you want them spending their entire shift chasing the puck. If he can distribute the puck and provide defensive support...your offensive guys get more touches. I never said put him with your top guys but it sure makes sense to have three different lines that can dominate and pin teams in different ways for offensive pressure.
Or we can try to go with chasing pucks and look at the draft lotto.

Fortunately i think i know what the Oilers are thinking.
I see Gordon as being the top Pk Centre, no pp time, third line centre 5 on 5 and wingers changing based on how the lines are matching against the opposition. That top nine is mixable and i dont see set lines for any point of theyear. i see him playing in that blender top six winger group.
Having offensive lines doesnt mean opening the game up to trading chances. Weve seen where that goes.


Last edited by oilinblood: 08-18-2014 at 04:06 PM.
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08-18-2014, 04:10 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by oilinblood View Post
Nope, i knew that (also plainly obvious when you see the talented wingers in the top nine) and as i stated in my post; it is my belief that it was shown early last year that Gordon can support his wingers while also being the best player on the ice and putting up points.

Hendricks is a typical fourth centre with only defense to offer.

I will point out the complete ignorance of not having the strongest centre possible on a line with offensive players...unless you want them spending their entire shift chasing the puck. If he can distribute the puck and provide defensive support...your offensive guys get more touches. I never said put him with your top guys but it sure makes sense to have three different lines that can dominate and pin teams in different ways for offensive pressure.
Or we can try to go with chasing pucks and look at the draft lotto.

Fortunately i think i know what the Oilers are thinking.
I see Gordon as being the top Pk Centre, no pp time, third line centre 5 on 5 and wingers changing based on how the lines are matching against the opposition. That top nine is mixable and i dont see set lines for any point of theyear. i see him playing in that blender top six winger group.
Having offensive lines doesnt mean opening the game up to trading chances. Weve seen where that goes.
People hear 4th line and think LOL 4 minutes a night.

A Hendricks - Gordon -????
Would be used much like our third line was last year. We won't be a team that runs 3lines and only has a 4th to eat minutes, we will be running 4 actual lines that have uses.

Pouliot and Purcell are good at possession and pretty good defensively so if they gave them a center that has an offensive upside and decent in possession Aka Arcobello/Draisaitl, the line can play a good two way game play against other teams third/fourth lines while spending most of the time in the offensive zone.

Yes Gordon can do well with good wingers but he excels at a shutdown role, along with Hendricks, them together are a great pair shutting down the other teams offensive lines, using Gordon in an offensive role is a misuse of his talents.

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08-18-2014, 06:46 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by DeathbyCheerios View Post
People hear 4th line and think LOL 4 minutes a night.

A Hendricks - Gordon -????
Would be used much like our third line was last year. We won't be a team that runs 3lines and only has a 4th to eat minutes, we will be running 4 actual lines that have uses.

Pouliot and Purcell are good at possession and pretty good defensively so if they gave them a center that has an offensive upside and decent in possession Aka Arcobello/Draisaitl, the line can play a good two way game play against other teams third/fourth lines while spending most of the time in the offensive zone.

Yes Gordon can do well with good wingers but he excels at a shutdown role, along with Hendricks, them together are a great pair shutting down the other teams offensive lines, using Gordon in an offensive role is a misuse of his talents.
Agree to disagree. I have a different view of Gordon...i think he is wasted playing on a full defensive unit with the likes of black holes in hendricks and plug. I think his biggest asset is definitely defense but he is a puck possession beast that can regain control and play smart hockey. He proved last year that despite plugs he can make great reads and execute, goes to the net, makes smart soft area plays to force wingers into those holes. When he has been given talented linemates he can put points up. To me...you get more out of him if he is used as a defensive presence on a talented line.

My opinion.

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08-18-2014, 06:57 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by DeathbyCheerios View Post
People hear 4th line and think LOL 4 minutes a night.

A Hendricks - Gordon -????
Would be used much like our third line was last year. We won't be a team that runs 3lines and only has a 4th to eat minutes, we will be running 4 actual lines that have uses.

Pouliot and Purcell are good at possession and pretty good defensively so if they gave them a center that has an offensive upside and decent in possession Aka Arcobello/Draisaitl, the line can play a good two way game play against other teams third/fourth lines while spending most of the time in the offensive zone.

Yes Gordon can do well with good wingers but he excels at a shutdown role, along with Hendricks, them together are a great pair shutting down the other teams offensive lines, using Gordon in an offensive role is a misuse of his talents.
Agree to disagree. I have a different view of Gordon...i think he is wasted playing on a full defensive unit with the likes of black holes in hendricks and plug. I think his biggest asset is definitely defense but he is a puck possession beast that can regain control and play smart hockey. He proved last year that despite plugs he can make great reads and execute, goes to the net, makes smart soft area plays to force wingers into those holes. When he has been given talented linemates he can put points up. To me...you get more out of him if he is used as a defensive presence on a talented line.

My opinion.

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08-18-2014, 07:14 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by oilinblood View Post
Nope, i knew that (also plainly obvious when you see the talented wingers in the top nine) and as i stated in my post; it is my belief that it was shown early last year that Gordon can support his wingers while also being the best player on the ice and putting up points.

Hendricks is a typical fourth centre with only defense to offer.

I will point out the complete ignorance of not having the strongest centre possible on a line with offensive players...unless you want them spending their entire shift chasing the puck. If he can distribute the puck and provide defensive support...your offensive guys get more touches. I never said put him with your top guys but it sure makes sense to have three different lines that can dominate and pin teams in different ways for offensive pressure.
Or we can try to go with chasing pucks and look at the draft lotto.

Fortunately i think i know what the Oilers are thinking.
I see Gordon as being the top Pk Centre, no pp time, third line centre 5 on 5 and wingers changing based on how the lines are matching against the opposition. That top nine is mixable and i dont see set lines for any point of theyear. i see him playing in that blender top six winger group.
Having offensive lines doesnt mean opening the game up to trading chances. Weve seen where that goes.
You missed my point entirely.

You were stating how un-knowledgable fans are by putting Gordon on the 4th line when the reason everyone has been doing it is because that's where MacT has all but said that's where he's going to be.

It doesn't matter what you're opinion of Gordon is or whether we agree on it or not if the guy running the team says that's what he wants.

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08-18-2014, 10:24 PM
  #83
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Here's a bit of perspective on where I think we are in the rebuild:


in 2011-12, our AHL team, the Oklahoma Barons were the #1 team in the western conference, and 2nd best regular season team in the league:

During lockout, we added:

Hall-RNH-Eberle
Schultz - Marincin
(Our current top line, and our 3/4 Dmen).

With this addition OKC somehow went from 1st to a bubble team. How the hell does this happen? We should really be analyzing this.


If that core can't win in the AHL, what hope do they really have winning in the NHL? Sure the individual offensive numbers are great, but what happened to the winning?




I think this is a team of losers, and we are roughly where the 2002-03 Atlanta Thrashers were in their rebuild.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...017902003.html


It's shocking how similar we are.

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08-19-2014, 02:57 AM
  #84
nexttothemoon
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The Oilers are "losers" because there's two ends of the rink... and they spend too much time in their own end because they haven't exactly mastered the defensive intricacies of the game yet.

Chalk it up to a combo of youth, inexperience, mediocre coaching and high roster turnover (poor chemistry among the players who are ALWAYS learning new systems and getting used to new linemates).

Constantly tilting the rink in the opposition's favour has resulted in being outshot consistently for the last 8 years... no coincidence they've missed the playoffs every one of those 8 years as well.

Simple solution is get better defensively and they'll spend more time in the offensive zone and start tilting the ice the other way for once. I'm still not confident this collective of forwards and dmen can accomplish that (especially with Eakins in charge)... but the law of averages says you can't stay that bad forever... something has to go right and these players have to learn eventually... right?

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08-19-2014, 03:46 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
... but the law of averages says you can't stay that bad forever... something has to go right and these players have to learn eventually... right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ashers_seasons
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipe..._season_record

Made the playoffs once in 15 seasons (swept in the first round).

This is what the Oilers are looking like.


:/

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Old
08-19-2014, 04:11 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ashers_seasons
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipe..._season_record

Made the playoffs once in 15 seasons (swept in the first round).

This is what the Oilers are looking like.


:/

Interesting. Heatley was about what Hall is today but Kovalchuk was better than Yak. Hopefully RNH continues to outperform Stefan. All in all though the three high picks are quite comparable when you look at them in aggregate.

The tilt starts going our way when you factor in Schultz and Eberle as they are younger and have a higher top end than Kozlov and Tremblay, but that again balances out in that we don't have a Savard in there (unless Arco goes nuclear).

Hopefully Nurse works out better than Coburn but is a reasonable comparable.

Draisaitl doesn't have a real comparable that I can see. So let's hope he is the difference. But yeah, it's quite similar when you look at it. Hopefully our depth turns out better.

Don't forget they also had Lehtonen in the pipeline as a goalie and he worked out pretty well but this was too early in his career to carry the team. Fortunately Scrivens is likely a better bet to handle it as he's further along his development than Lehtonen was at the time.

The X Factor here too is the Heatley accident, which by the Atlanta timelines would be happening this or next summer. Without that maybe things go a little differently and they break out that year and don't look back. We should show the boys the video so they don't make a similar mistake to Heatley.


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08-19-2014, 04:20 PM
  #87
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Interesting. Heatley was about what Hall is today but Kovalchuk was better than Yak. Hopefully RNH continues to outperform Stefan. All in all though the three high picks are quite comparable when you look at them in aggregate.

The tilt starts going our way when you factor in Schultz and Eberle as they are younger and have a higher top end than Kozlov and Tremblay, but that again balances out in that we don't have a Savard in there (unless Arco goes nuclear).

Hopefully Nurse works out better than Coburn but is a reasonable comparable.

Draisaitl doesn't have a real comparable that I can see. So let's hope he is the difference. But yeah, it's quite similar when you look at it. Hopefully our depth turns out better.

Don't forget they also had Lehtonen in the pipeline as a goalie and he worked out pretty well but this was too early in his career to carry the team. Fortunately Scrivens is likely a better bet to handle it as he's further along his development than Lehtonen was at the time.

The X Factor here too is the Heatley accident, which by the Atlanta timelines would be happening this or next summer. Without that maybe things go a little differently and they break out that year and don't look back. We should show the boys the video so they don't make a similar mistake to Heatley.
I think Nuge is comparable with Marc Savard.

Kozlov is more of an Xfactor that goes beyond what Eberle/LD would bring.


I just don't see the Oilers crawling into the playoffs the next 2-3 seasons if we stay on our current path.

:/

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08-19-2014, 04:26 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Powder View Post
You missed my point entirely.

You were stating how un-knowledgable fans are by putting Gordon on the 4th line when the reason everyone has been doing it is because that's where MacT has all but said that's where he's going to be.

It doesn't matter what you're opinion of Gordon is or whether we agree on it or not if the guy running the team says that's what he wants.
And you missed my entire thread that said Gordon can play on an offensive line with good wingers. That hendricks is a centre that should be stuck in a mere defense only role.

Indeed, if the Oilers feel Gordon helps the offensive wingers spend more time out of their own zone...he will play in the top nine. Its not your choice or mine.
I can see both perspectives...yours and mine. As an opponent i want the oilers to do it your way. Id overload and full out press on that line. I wouldnt even worry about dmen. My five best offesnive players. If that fourth line gets the puck they arent at all a threat. Hell ill give them breakaways itwont hurt me. Id even debate having my goalie play near the blue incase he read a dump...so he could fire it right back up and not let the line change. And i can rest my top defenders to smack down hall and rnh and yakupov and put their heads into the walls. Also i wouldnt put a bounty or anything but id say if guys happen to take out a boyd gordon shoulder or something id be happy to talk raise to the GM.

Thats hardly an effective checking line. More like ringing the dinner bell.


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08-21-2014, 02:03 PM
  #89
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Jumping on the whole checking line debate.

I am right on the fence on this one.

Gordon is much better offensively than most people give credit for on these boards. His 5v5 numbers put him ahead of someone like Horcoff who has been used in a top 6 role most his time here. Not to mention his faceoffs/possession would really help out in offensive situations as well. Is he offensive enough to be a great #2, no not quite, but as a #3 he is exactly on par with league averages. Gordon is a great #3 center on almost any team.

Using Gordon on the "4th line" as described by Mac T is very misleading. As a full fledged defensive specialist Gordon does very well and that line with Hendricks will play at least 10 minutes a night. Probably closer to 15 when you factor in Penalty killing. That isn't a traditional 4th line by any means.

I also think using Gordon purely defensively is a bit of a waste but can see how keeping Gordon and Hendricks together with a specific defensive role makes sense.

Hendricks obviously no longer has the offense to be a third liner. I kept hoping they would split Gordon and Hendricks last year but they were so good defensively it was hard to argue with.

I personally think our center should be:

#1 RNH
#2 Best of Arco/Lander/Leon
#3 Gordon
#4 Hendricks

I really like Hendricks but see his role being very limited. Basically a perfect 4th liner that can jump to the third line for short stints.

Joensuu, Pitlick, Lander, Leon, Hendricks, Gazdic should all be battling for a spot on the fourth line. Problem is Hendricks is the only well suited for that.

Hall RNH Purcell
Pouliot Arco Eberle
Perron Gordon Yak
Lander Hendricks Pitlick
Joensuu Gazdic

Would really balance scoring and two way play. Plus our fourth line would be an actual "fourth line", but then we do not have a true shutdown line.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. I am fine running with it the way Mac T is suggesting to start the year, just hope if it fails they adjust accordingly and quickly.

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08-21-2014, 02:18 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by oilinblood View Post
And you missed my entire thread that said Gordon can play on an offensive line with good wingers. That hendricks is a centre that should be stuck in a mere defense only role.

Indeed, if the Oilers feel Gordon helps the offensive wingers spend more time out of their own zone...he will play in the top nine. Its not your choice or mine.
I can see both perspectives...yours and mine. As an opponent i want the oilers to do it your way. Id overload and full out press on that line. I wouldnt even worry about dmen. My five best offesnive players. If that fourth line gets the puck they arent at all a threat. Hell ill give them breakaways itwont hurt me. Id even debate having my goalie play near the blue incase he read a dump...so he could fire it right back up and not let the line change. And i can rest my top defenders to smack down hall and rnh and yakupov and put their heads into the walls. Also i wouldnt put a bounty or anything but id say if guys happen to take out a boyd gordon shoulder or something id be happy to talk raise to the GM.

Thats hardly an effective checking line. More like ringing the dinner bell.
No, I understood your point. I just think it's irrelevant.

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08-21-2014, 02:20 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
Here's a bit of perspective on where I think we are in the rebuild:


in 2011-12, our AHL team, the Oklahoma Barons were the #1 team in the western conference, and 2nd best regular season team in the league:

During lockout, we added:

Hall-RNH-Eberle
Schultz - Marincin
(Our current top line, and our 3/4 Dmen).

With this addition OKC somehow went from 1st to a bubble team. How the hell does this happen? We should really be analyzing this.


If that core can't win in the AHL, what hope do they really have winning in the NHL? Sure the individual offensive numbers are great, but what happened to the winning?




I think this is a team of losers, and we are roughly where the 2002-03 Atlanta Thrashers were in their rebuild.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...017902003.html


It's shocking how similar we are.
Because the team was having to play a different style of game with the new guys. OKC was never a high skilled high scoring team, but had to be with the players they added so it was a different style for the rest of the team

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08-25-2014, 04:01 AM
  #92
Steve BachIntyre
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Boyd Gordon is our 2nd best center and had a great TC last season as well as started the year with good offensive numbers. Yakupov gets his top six minutes this year or we would have kept Hemsky.

Arco Lander Draisaitle Yakimov Khaira are not a good match to play with Yak and Perron. Draisaitl is the only other option and though I would love for him to see top6 mins on a defensively challenged roster he has yet to step foot on an NHL rink so as of now the job is Gordons (and his high salary) to lose.

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08-25-2014, 08:12 AM
  #93
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I think the line up will end up being:

Hall - Nuge - Eberle
Perron - Gordon - Purcell
Benoit - Arco - Yakupov
Lander - Hendricks - Joensuu
Gazdic


Nikitin - Schultz
Marincin - Petry
Ference - Fayne
Aulie


Pretty weak down the middle tbh but at least they aren't completely inept defensively, which has been a big issue overall.

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08-25-2014, 12:26 PM
  #94
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Because the team was having to play a different style of game with the new guys. OKC was never a high skilled high scoring team, but had to be with the players they added so it was a different style for the rest of the team
That's a very fair answer.

But my point still stands.

If this core can't win in the AHL. What hope do they have in the NHL?


BTW... what should be alarming is that same AHL group is a far better team without them.




Shouldn't our core players focus more on 'winning'?

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08-25-2014, 01:05 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
That's a very fair answer.

But my point still stands.

If this core can't win in the AHL. What hope do they have in the NHL?


BTW... what should be alarming is that same AHL group is a far better team without them.




Shouldn't our core players focus more on 'winning'?
The same AHL group did just as good, slightly better cause they are a team that was built around a certain style, a style of checking, hard hitting game with focus on defense first.

Adding the core players helped but, RNH was at world juniors and was injured for most of it so really it was Hall and Eberle. Hall, Arco and Eberle were a scary good line but the rest of the team wasn't doing anything. That's the same problem the Nhl team had. Hall and Eberle can be top 30 in goals but without secondary scoring and a good back end, your team won't do **** all.

Hall and Eberle know how to win, they proved it in juniors and in the world juniors, their biggest problem is that they can't be on the ice all game.

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08-25-2014, 01:20 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
That's a very fair answer.

But my point still stands.

If this core can't win in the AHL. What hope do they have in the NHL?


BTW... what should be alarming is that same AHL group is a far better team without them.




Shouldn't our core players focus more on 'winning'?
that core led the AHL in every scoring catagory. The only problem with that core is they are too young. the biggest problem is the rest of the team... and coaching.

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08-25-2014, 02:01 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by armandh01 View Post
I think the line up will end up being:

Hall - Nuge - Eberle
Perron - Gordon - Purcell
Benoit - Arco - Yakupov
Lander - Hendricks - Joensuu
Gazdic



Nikitin - Schultz
Marincin - Petry
Ference - Fayne
Aulie


Pretty weak down the middle tbh but at least they aren't completely inept defensively, which has been a big issue overall.



Hopefully RNH doesn't get hurt or else we'll be seeing this:

Hall-Gordon-Eberle
Perron-Arco-Purcell
Benoit-Hendricks-Yakupov
Gazdic-Lander-Joensuu


That's bad enough to have a shot at one of:McDavid,Eichel or Hanifin.

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08-25-2014, 03:33 PM
  #98
Kyle VanEdmonton
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Originally Posted by DeathbyCheerios View Post
People hear 4th line and think LOL 4 minutes a night.

A Hendricks - Gordon -????
Would be used much like our third line was last year. We won't be a team that runs 3lines and only has a 4th to eat minutes, we will be running 4 actual lines that have uses.

Pouliot and Purcell are good at possession and pretty good defensively so if they gave them a center that has an offensive upside and decent in possession Aka Arcobello/Draisaitl, the line can play a good two way game play against other teams third/fourth lines while spending most of the time in the offensive zone.

Yes Gordon can do well with good wingers but he excels at a shutdown role, along with Hendricks, them together are a great pair shutting down the other teams offensive lines, using Gordon in an offensive role is a misuse of his talents.
This 100% . Gordon needs to win face offs in front of Scrivens and he needs Hendricks to help battle for the puck when it gets into the corner so they can get it out of our zone. Hendricks and Gordon together on the fourth line makes the most sense BY FAR. They will be playing a lot more minutes than a typical fourth line and against much harder competition, but every shift of theirs should be about getting the puck out of our zone.

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08-25-2014, 03:38 PM
  #99
Kyle VanEdmonton
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Originally Posted by Powder View Post
No, I understood your point. I just think it's irrelevant.
Agreed

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08-25-2014, 06:59 PM
  #100
Drai2Yak
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Originally Posted by armandh01 View Post
I think the line up will end up being:

Hall - Nuge - Eberle
Perron - Gordon - Purcell
Benoit - Arco - Yakupov
Lander - Hendricks - Joensuu
Gazdic


Nikitin - Schultz
Marincin - Petry
Ference - Fayne
Aulie


Pretty weak down the middle tbh but at least they aren't completely inept defensively, which has been a big issue overall.
Pretty weak ? That'd be the worst Centre depth I've ever seen, I'd cry if Gordon is our 2nd line Centre come opening night.

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