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Isles defense

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Old
08-19-2014, 06:00 PM
  #101
KrisBeKreame
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Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan View Post
Smid?
What happened to Smid? I though he was highly thought of when he was an Oiler?

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Old
08-19-2014, 06:04 PM
  #102
Las Llamas
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Originally Posted by KrisBeKreame View Post
What happened to Smid? I though he was highly thought of when he was an Oiler?
Got traded to us towards the beginning of the year (not even sure why, the Oilers could have used all of the defenseman they had this previous year).

The guy is truly a warrior, probably is our second best defensive defenseman behind Giordano. Blocks shots like no other. Top 10 in the league with blocked shots, even with missing quite a few games.

EDIT: #12 in the league (73 GP).

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Old
08-19-2014, 06:37 PM
  #103
Darth Milbury
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Originally Posted by KrisBeKreame View Post
What happened to Smid? I though he was highly thought of when he was an Oiler?


I used to be a fan, but I think he was pretty seriously overrated by some Oiler fans. He is gritty and tough, but doesn't bring a whole lot more to the ice.

If he is playing 20+ minutes a night for a team, you're in trouble.

I don't see him as an upgrade beyond Hickey, to be honest.

He'd be a good option for the third pair, but third paring guys are not really what we need.

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08-19-2014, 06:40 PM
  #104
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I would do what ever it takes within reason to get a Boychuk or Oduya or both...Just one of those guys would go such a long way for our D and team success. Especially Boychuk.

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Old
08-19-2014, 07:01 PM
  #105
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Can we stop trading Frans Nielsen? Thank You.

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08-19-2014, 07:05 PM
  #106
Darth Milbury
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I understand, and respect, why you want to keep Frans Nielsen. I've watched the guy since he was an AHL player and I think his offensive output last season is for real.


The problem is that you can't keep all your assets AND also make a trade. And, in this case, I think it is pretty clear that the Isles do need to make an upgrade on the blueline.


If we are not trading our core assets, not moving Nielsen, and not giving up any of our prized youth, what is left?


Got to give to get.

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08-19-2014, 08:22 PM
  #107
Benedict Kovalchuk
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Originally Posted by vannzee View Post
I wonder what the Islanders would need to add to a HFBoards favorite trade of Josh Bailey to Edmonton for Petry.

I think its obvious that they would need to add but how much?
Petry + 2nd or 3rd would get it done.

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Old
08-19-2014, 10:25 PM
  #108
Canadian Canuck
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Originally Posted by Benedict Kovalchuk View Post
Petry + 2nd or 3rd would get it done.
Petry>Bailey.... Islanders add not Oilers.

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Old
08-19-2014, 10:58 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
I understand, and respect, why you want to keep Frans Nielsen. I've watched the guy since he was an AHL player and I think his offensive output last season is for real.


The problem is that you can't keep all your assets AND also make a trade. And, in this case, I think it is pretty clear that the Isles do need to make an upgrade on the blueline.


If we are not trading our core assets, not moving Nielsen, and not giving up any of our prized youth, what is left?


Got to give to get.
we have finally awesome depth down the middle and you want to move it. siiiiigggghhhhhhhhhh

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Old
08-20-2014, 07:05 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Nolanitis View Post
Still don't see a trade coming. There are way too many teams looking for top 4 defenseman, the price is too high. I bet the defense is going to be much better this year with the addition of 20yo Reinhart.
I agree, I don't see us making anymore moves until we see what we've got in training camp. If the coaches like what they see then we start the season with what we've got and make moves later if needed. Reinhart can be sent down to BP to start the season

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08-20-2014, 07:12 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by RoseTintedVisor View Post
we have finally awesome depth down the middle and you want to move it. siiiiigggghhhhhhhhhh
Who do you suggest trading to get a quality player back? I think Nielsen is the best player that's also expendable. I didn't think he'd be an Islander for this long of his contract, and I don't think he'll be here come next year either. Capuano said on NHL radio that he really doesn't want to move Nelson to center but doesn't really have a choice. If Nielsen can be moved in a trade for a defenseman, you can bet Nelson takes that spot and IMO can be better than Nielsen from physicality alone. I'll bet if Nielsen and Nelson were playing the same role, they'd get the same amount of points.

Unless some team in the NHL miraculously thinks Bailey is worth something more than tape, Nielsen will get the most value back.

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08-20-2014, 07:43 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
Dude, you are welcome to come here and disagree. That's what the board is about! You should be able to do that without lecturing others about their ideas being "asinine" or twisting positions to be waaaaaaaay more extreme than they are. I don't take issue with you disagreeing - I take issue with you making up arguments I never made.


Otherwise, I pretty much think you are correct in all your assumptions. defenders are at a sky high premium right now, and the Isles won't get much beyond an Oduya/Garrison level guy with what they have available to move.

Fortunately, that is exactly the kind of player I'd like to see the Isles acquire.


There were also a few less established players (like Martinez) mentioned in this thread that I'd be willing to take a chance with.
To be fair, I read the initial post as implying those guys were untouchable as well.

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Old
08-20-2014, 07:57 AM
  #113
RoseTintedVisor
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Originally Posted by SLAPSHOT723 View Post
Who do you suggest trading to get a quality player back? I think Nielsen is the best player that's also expendable. I didn't think he'd be an Islander for this long of his contract, and I don't think he'll be here come next year either. Capuano said on NHL radio that he really doesn't want to move Nelson to center but doesn't really have a choice. If Nielsen can be moved in a trade for a defenseman, you can bet Nelson takes that spot and IMO can be better than Nielsen from physicality alone. I'll bet if Nielsen and Nelson were playing the same role, they'd get the same amount of points.

Unless some team in the NHL miraculously thinks Bailey is worth something more than tape, Nielsen will get the most value back.
Frans Nielsen brings more to a team than Brock Nelson. I trade Brock (or Lee) before Frans.

Frans is your PP QB, Best PKer and Shutdown 2 way Center. Oh and the greatest shootout weapon of all time. You don't get rid of a swiss army knife like that on a cheap contract.

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Old
08-20-2014, 08:04 AM
  #114
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Something around Grabner for Green?

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Old
08-20-2014, 08:07 AM
  #115
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Something around Grabner for Green?
Isles need a guy you can pencil in for 70-75 games. That's not Mike Green.

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Old
08-20-2014, 08:36 AM
  #116
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I would have pushed hard for Stralman. He doesnt bring much points but he can easily play 20 mins a night. Would give much balance for Isles depth.

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08-20-2014, 09:42 AM
  #117
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Again, I said listing 7 untouchables was asinine. YOu don't like my vocabulary? Ok, listing 7 untouchables is "unrealistic." Is that better?

I'm not getting into a pissing war about this. I'm here to talk hockey and not whine back and forth. I'll stop posting in here since clearly a differing opinion can't be handled.

A few others have posted along the lines of my thoughts and all of us have been responded to in critical terms.
Listing 7 untouchable players when discussing the whole organization is not unrealistic.

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Old
08-20-2014, 09:45 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by RoseTintedVisor View Post
Can we stop trading Frans Nielsen? Thank You.
It's a discussion thread...in August, let's have some fun.

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Old
08-20-2014, 10:07 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by marciiauzii View Post
I would have pushed hard for Stralman. He doesnt bring much points but he can easily play 20 mins a night. Would give much balance for Isles depth.
I would have done that too. Not really sure what happened, particularly after Boyle bailed on us. I assume Garth was after someone out there.

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08-20-2014, 10:12 AM
  #120
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Listing 7 untouchable players when discussing the whole organization is not unrealistic.
Its also not unreasonable to suggest that Strome is not on the table for a Garrison type defender

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Old
08-20-2014, 10:14 AM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoseTintedVisor View Post
Frans Nielsen brings more to a team than Brock Nelson. I trade Brock (or Lee) before Frans.

Frans is your PP QB, Best PKer and Shutdown 2 way Center. Oh and the greatest shootout weapon of all time. You don't get rid of a swiss army knife like that on a cheap contract.
I am pretty sue Nielsen would be moved waaaaay before Nelson

Lee, I just don't see as al the critical (although I like him).

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08-20-2014, 10:36 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
I understand, and respect, why you want to keep Frans Nielsen. I've watched the guy since he was an AHL player and I think his offensive output last season is for real.


The problem is that you can't keep all your assets AND also make a trade. And, in this case, I think it is pretty clear that the Isles do need to make an upgrade on the blueline.


If we are not trading our core assets, not moving Nielsen, and not giving up any of our prized youth, what is left?


Got to give to get.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLAPSHOT723 View Post
Who do you suggest trading to get a quality player back? I think Nielsen is the best player that's also expendable. I didn't think he'd be an Islander for this long of his contract, and I don't think he'll be here come next year either. Capuano said on NHL radio that he really doesn't want to move Nelson to center but doesn't really have a choice. If Nielsen can be moved in a trade for a defenseman, you can bet Nelson takes that spot and IMO can be better than Nielsen from physicality alone. I'll bet if Nielsen and Nelson were playing the same role, they'd get the same amount of points.

Unless some team in the NHL miraculously thinks Bailey is worth something more than tape, Nielsen will get the most value back.
Agreed on both of the above. I think every Islander fan loves Fransy - and they should. But, the Isles have a log jam up front and a need on the blue line. Frans falls in between - he's not an untouchable but he still has some value. Sure I'd love to find a top 4 Dman for a package surrounding Bailey, but who's going to bite on that? At this point in time, Bailey is roughly worth a 3rd round pick. Or perhaps a back end Dman, something we are flush with.

If we truly want a top 4 dman, Nielsen is the only logical guy that would get that kind of return. Its nice to propose a quantity for quality deal, but its usually the people who are giving up the quantity who are happy with those kind of deals - not the ones giving up the quality.

If we can do a Bailey for Mcquaid deal, I'd consider it as getting bigger on the blue line would help. We could then roll these lines:

CdH-Hamonic
Viz - Griff
Hickey - McQuaid

But we aren't finding a true top 4 guy unless we give up quite a bit more. Although I wonder what a Grabner + Pokka package would net?

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Old
08-20-2014, 10:45 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by RoseTintedVisor View Post
Isles need a guy you can pencil in for 70-75 games. That's not Mike Green.
What about Hejda ;-)

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08-20-2014, 11:40 AM
  #124
Darth Milbury
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Agreed on both of the above. I think every Islander fan loves Fransy - and they should. But, the Isles have a log jam up front and a need on the blue line. Frans falls in between - he's not an untouchable but he still has some value. Sure I'd love to find a top 4 Dman for a package surrounding Bailey, but who's going to bite on that? At this point in time, Bailey is roughly worth a 3rd round pick. Or perhaps a back end Dman, something we are flush with.

If we truly want a top 4 dman, Nielsen is the only logical guy that would get that kind of return. Its nice to propose a quantity for quality deal, but its usually the people who are giving up the quantity who are happy with those kind of deals - not the ones giving up the quality.

If we can do a Bailey for Mcquaid deal, I'd consider it as getting bigger on the blue line would help. We could then roll these lines:

CdH-Hamonic
Viz - Griff
Hickey - McQuaid

But we aren't finding a true top 4 guy unless we give up quite a bit more. Although I wonder what a Grabner + Pokka package would net?

I doubt Grabner or Bailey has any real trade value. IMO, Frans Nielsen is the only tradeable established vet we have with true market value.

I think we have a few less established assets, like Lee, Pokka, and Pulock who have market value. So, another option would be to move one of those kids. I'm not saying we'd get a top three guy with those assets, but a reasonable number four might be doable.

I really wish we were in on Georges and Garrison this summer. And, I agree with the poster above who suggested that we should have pursued Stralman.

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Old
08-20-2014, 02:06 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
I doubt Grabner or Bailey has any real trade value. IMO, Frans Nielsen is the only tradeable established vet we have with true market value.

I think we have a few less established assets, like Lee, Pokka, and Pulock who have market value. So, another option would be to move one of those kids. I'm not saying we'd get a top three guy with those assets, but a reasonable number four might be doable.

I really wish we were in on Georges and Garrison this summer. And, I agree with the poster above who suggested that we should have pursued Stralman.
I would take Grabner in a second for the Pen's 3rd line. He has true value. I still think there may be a trade between PIT and NYR due to strengths/weaknesses of both teams, but NYI seem to shy away from trades (still gun shy from Millbury era).

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