HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Asking trade opinion on my Boston/Phoenix proposal

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-19-2005, 03:13 AM
  #51
Mike Barnett*
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 28
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
In your "experience", eh? Exactly when did you time one skater versus the other? The only basis you have for saying Comrie is faster than Samsonov is that the plays for your favorite team. You have absolutely no other evidence other than your personal impression.
And how about you? When did you time them? All you are going on is your experience as well. you crack me up. Appearantly your opinion is much more accurate than mine.

What a waste of my time it has been talking to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
As for the Raycroft vs. Dipietro thing: I am an Islander fan who would very much like to believe that Dipietro is better. But, after watching him since he first came into the league, and watching Raycroft - I don't see it. But, at the end of the evening, both are a lot better than Boucher (who is just plain bad) and both have higher market value than Mara.
So because you are an Islanders fan I should take it that your OPINION is accurate? It is still only your OPINION.

Regarding Boucher, I have faith that since now Allaire is no longer forcing Boucher to play the butterfly style Boucher will will have a solid season.

Did I tell you that your opinions mean nothing to me? LMAO

Mike Barnett* is offline  
Old
09-19-2005, 03:15 AM
  #52
Mike Barnett*
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 28
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SopelFan
Just a question. What is the point of trade proposals? Do they ever come true?
The point of the proposals is just for fun. unfortunately you get people on these things who think they should have been NHL GM years ago and they feel they know everything there is to know about all the players and all the teams instead of just admitting that it is in their experience and opinions ... no names need to be mentioned.

Mike Barnett* is offline  
Old
09-19-2005, 10:26 AM
  #53
Darth Milbury
Registered User
 
Darth Milbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Searching for Kvasha
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 35,969
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Barnett
And how about you? When did you time them? All you are going on is your experience as well. you crack me up. Appearantly your opinion is much more accurate than mine.

What a waste of my time it has been talking to you.


So because you are an Islanders fan I should take it that your OPINION is accurate? It is still only your OPINION.

Regarding Boucher, I have faith that since now Allaire is no longer forcing Boucher to play the butterfly style Boucher will will have a solid season.

Did I tell you that your opinions mean nothing to me? LMAO
That is exactly the point. I DIDN'T time them. And, hence, you don't see me making these ridiculous comments that "in my experience one is faster than the other." You have NO experience. You entire knowledge of Samsonov's "speed" is watching him on TV and them mentally calculating what you THINK might be his speed. This is an absolutely wortheless basis for conclusions. Its just ludicrous that you can make bold statements about one player being faster than the other based on seeing one guy on TV.

I, on the other hand, made no statements whatsoever about one player being faster than the other. I simply said that Samsonov is an excellent skater - so not trading for him because of team speed issues makes little sense.

The point about Dipietro is that I've seen and watched him much closer than you ever have. You've basically seen Samsonov on TV, probably for about 10 minutes, and made all these sweeping conclusions. I watched Dipietro in probably 50 games last year, and I saw Raycroft in about 30. ANd, yeah, my evaluation of the two is ONLY my opinion (see, unlike you, I'm not raising myself to a god-like level) but it is reasonably informed opinion and one that is also backed up by some stats. And, unlike your arguements, mine is not rooted in home team bias.

Regarding Boucher: So, after nine years in the NHL, a new coaching strategy is suddenly going to change him into a high quality number 1? Do you honestly believe that?

Darth Milbury is offline  
Old
09-19-2005, 10:26 AM
  #54
Darth Milbury
Registered User
 
Darth Milbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Searching for Kvasha
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 35,969
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Barnett
The point of the proposals is just for fun. unfortunately you get people on these things who think they should have been NHL GM years ago and they feel they know everything there is to know about all the players and all the teams instead of just admitting that it is in their experience and opinions ... no names need to be mentioned.
You shouldn't talk about yourself in the third person. That is a sign of mental illness.

Darth Milbury is offline  
Old
09-19-2005, 07:04 PM
  #55
Mike Barnett*
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 28
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
You shouldn't talk about yourself in the third person. That is a sign of mental illness.
Nice to see that you haven't broken your streak of being wrong. Refering to yourserlf is not a sign of mental illness. I also was not referring to myself in the 3rd person. Care to take a guess as to whom I was referring?

Mike Barnett* is offline  
Old
09-19-2005, 07:07 PM
  #56
Mike Barnett*
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 28
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
That is exactly the point. I DIDN'T time them. And, hence, you don't see me making these ridiculous comments that "in my experience one is faster than the other." You have NO experience. You entire knowledge of Samsonov's "speed" is watching him on TV and them mentally calculating what you THINK might be his speed. This is an absolutely wortheless basis for conclusions. Its just ludicrous that you can make bold statements about one player being faster than the other based on seeing one guy on TV.

I, on the other hand, made no statements whatsoever about one player being faster than the other. I simply said that Samsonov is an excellent skater - so not trading for him because of team speed issues makes little sense.
Forgetting what you said a few days before ... now that's a sign of mental illness!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
4) Samsonov is "slower" than Comrie? that says about all we need to know about your objectivity.

Mike Barnett* is offline  
Old
09-19-2005, 07:59 PM
  #57
PhoPhan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 13,139
vCash: 500
He didn't say Samsonov was faster, only that saying one was faster than the other without having them race is stupid.

PhoPhan is online now  
Old
09-19-2005, 08:04 PM
  #58
Darth Milbury
Registered User
 
Darth Milbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Searching for Kvasha
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 35,969
vCash: 500
To clarify, I think the question of whether one player or the other is "faster" is dumb. Samsonov is an excellent skater and from what I can tell, so is Comrie. If you believe that that game is really going to open up, either would be a good player to have around. Either way, I don't think you can compare two excellent skaters by watching them on TV and trying to determine which one "looks" faster. I think that idea is quite silly.

Darth Milbury is offline  
Old
09-20-2005, 12:48 AM
  #59
Mike Barnett*
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 28
vCash: 500
It might be silly, but I clarified it with from my perspective, my experience and along those lines. Regardless, it was not a very good trade offer that the original poster suggested. Didn't meet any need for the Coyotes and gave them too many goalies. What a waste of time.

Mike Barnett* is offline  
Old
09-20-2005, 02:57 AM
  #60
Michael Karlstrom II
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
well... the need for phoenix that would be met is imo... an upgraded goaltender. Boucher was not the answer last year and CUJO hasnt been the answer for a couple years. CUJO might rebound, but hes old. He wont play forever.

Raycroft signed dirt cheap this year... but likely ended up with hurt feelings. I wouldnt want Boucher back in Boston and I wouldnt really want CUJO either at this point as I believe there are better options out there if Toivonen did falter.

Phoenix has a ton of cap room... they could eat a goaltender contract if need be.

Boucher and Cujo are not so expensive that another team might not take one if they ran into injury problems. Cujo to edmonton maybe???

anyhow... the second part of this proposal is Sammy, and trust me he is an upgrade over Comrie. I live in alberta and am fed a forced diet of Oil news... oil games... oil thought.

Comrie when hes hot is a pretty nifty guy... but when he sucks he sucks big time. Something is wrong with him. He isnt the sum of his parts. I am not sure if he was spoiled by his family, but whatever the situation, Edmonton was glad to see him go. Philly was glad to see him go. I dont think he will lead Phoenix to any promised land.

As far as that goes I dont see Nagy doing it either. The kids in Phoenix are all young and unproven. Doan isnt really a scorer. He shouldnt be the goto guy on a legitimate team.

I cant prove this... Sammy has never been the goto guy either. In Boston from day 1 he was second tier to Allison and Khristitch and Carter... then to Guerin and Thornton and Murray...

its size i think... Boston has always wanted to play a size game and Sammy's opportunity suffered as a result. Sammy was never Joe's winger more than 2-3 games at a time. And Boston has never had the depth to give Sammy good linemates to create a second line with.

And yet... Sammy has always been a ppg player when healthy for most of the season.

Sammy generates his own points. He doesnt ride the coattails of his linemates

You'd love him in Phoenix.

He is soft... but not Pavel Bure soft. He doesnt take 2 min shifts and hurt the team defensively by being winded out there. He isnt a monster on defense, but the kid has some spirit... he doesnt suck defensively.

I think if Sammy stays healthy and plays with Bergeron and Zhamnov this year and gets even half the pp time, he will produce 90 plus points in this new NHL.

In Phoenix, I would say he could compete for the league scoring title. I am very very very high on Sammy.

I also love Mara... i am not trying to propose crap for some star kid talent. these are both 97 draft guys. I think Phoenix can resign Sammy at a premium since they have cap room and he has been injured.

I think Raycroft would help most teams in net.

I think Comrie could challange the 65-70 point mark playing in Boston second line... it wouldnt be a huge downgrade from Sammy for a single season given Sammy has been hurt the last couple years and will be an UFA next season.

I think Mara is a cornerstone... pair him up with Boynton... let Stuart join and this is a big three that might one day remind some of the Montreal Canadian big three... [maybe... i know those were hall of fame legends, so allow me a little bit of poetic fantasy here]

point is, having 3-4 stud dmen allows for alot of other shortcumings on a team to be white washed away.

Draft picks are always good. Losing Sammy to UFA would likely get the Bruins a second rounder anyhow, so its not like we will lose him for nothing even if we keep him this year. Mara might be available in UFA next year... he is a Mass area kid who might want to raise a family at home. Possibly we get him without having to make this trade and possibly we can keep Raycroft and not have to rush Toivonen.

Im not panicked to say this deal must be made... just wanted to see if it sounded fair to people... i wouldnt mind if it happened... i dont mind if it doesnt.

I do want the Bruins to figure out some way to upgrade their defense.

Mara would do it

 
Old
09-20-2005, 03:02 AM
  #61
Michael Karlstrom II
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
and for the record... since i havent posted much on the trade board in ages and since i was asked in this thread... i am the guy that was mdkarl and the alberta bruin way back in the day.

at one point i was probably the leading poster for most stupid posts of anyone on these boards... but i got marred a couple years ago.

over the lost time, my origional names all stopped working for me... hence my being a II now.

I used to try to write for the Bruin Board, but time didnt allow that either, and i dont watch 200 games a year now like i used too.

so... just a guy with a love for hypothetical trade talk. I dont like to get into the name calling. I am a wind bag. I make a lot of boring stupid pointless posts when im bored and looking for some self entertainment.

i try to apologize in advance to all those who i tick off.

and i always try to be positive for my bruins in my sign off... so heres counting on a 2005-2006 stanley cup victory to pay off the years of suffering for our nation.

Go Bruins Go!

 
Old
09-20-2005, 03:55 AM
  #62
rt
Usually Incorrect
 
rt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Rarely Sober
Country: United States
Posts: 40,155
vCash: 500
Two Words

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Karlstrom II
CUJO might rebound, but hes old. He wont play forever.
David LeNevue.

rt is online now  
Old
09-20-2005, 03:59 AM
  #63
rt
Usually Incorrect
 
rt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Rarely Sober
Country: United States
Posts: 40,155
vCash: 500
Counter Offer

To Bos: Mara, Kolanos
To Phx: Samsonov

Feedback? Good? Bad? I'm an idiot?

rt is online now  
Old
09-20-2005, 09:48 AM
  #64
Darth Milbury
Registered User
 
Darth Milbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Searching for Kvasha
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 35,969
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Karlstrom II
and for the record... since i havent posted much on the trade board in ages and since i was asked in this thread... i am the guy that was mdkarl and the alberta bruin way back in the day.

at one point i was probably the leading poster for most stupid posts of anyone on these boards... but i got marred a couple years ago.

over the lost time, my origional names all stopped working for me... hence my being a II now.

I used to try to write for the Bruin Board, but time didnt allow that either, and i dont watch 200 games a year now like i used too.

so... just a guy with a love for hypothetical trade talk. I dont like to get into the name calling. I am a wind bag. I make a lot of boring stupid pointless posts when im bored and looking for some self entertainment.

i try to apologize in advance to all those who i tick off.

and i always try to be positive for my bruins in my sign off... so heres counting on a 2005-2006 stanley cup victory to pay off the years of suffering for our nation.

Go Bruins Go!
Leading in stupid posts? No, leading in creative trade threads and nice guy responses to hot headed posters.

Welcome back. The board is a better place when you are here.

Darth Milbury is offline  
Old
09-20-2005, 09:50 AM
  #65
Darth Milbury
Registered User
 
Darth Milbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Searching for Kvasha
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 35,969
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt
To Bos: Mara, Kolanos
To Phx: Samsonov

Feedback? Good? Bad? I'm an idiot?
I THINK it favors Boston by a wide margin, simply because Samsonov is an impending UFA who will want big bucks. Mara is far too good to give up for a rental. Of course, I say that not knowing Mara's situation.

If contracts were not a factor though, I'd say that this deal couldn't be more fair.

Darth Milbury is offline  
Old
09-20-2005, 09:52 AM
  #66
Alberta Yote
Nice run
 
Alberta Yote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In your kitchen
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,695
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt
To Bos: Mara, Kolanos
To Phx: Samsonov

Feedback? Good? Bad? I'm an idiot?
Done. But we still have to get rid of a couple forwards.

Alberta Yote is offline  
Old
09-20-2005, 09:53 AM
  #67
Michael Karlstrom II
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
To Bos: Mara, Kolanos
To Phx: Samsonov

If I didnt think that Sergei Zinovjev is stuck playing in Russia now, I probably wouldnt hate this deal for Boston. It would rest for me on if Mara would sign an extension. I guess Phoenix might want to be sure Samsonov would too.

I am not sure how NHL ready Kolanos is to play quality minutes in a key role. I'd like to actually see how many points Bergeron will produce in a second line role, before I would be so quick to deal off Sammy with no second line option coming back to Boston in the deal.

Overall... for my taste... given Boston's needs and the unique appeal of a guy like Mara with ties to the area and my own belief this could help the Bruins secure a hometeam discount with him on some future negotiations, I give the deal a luke warmish okay for me.

I think I know my fellow Bruin fans well enough that most of them will not like the idea of moving Sammy at all. The guy is the most exciting player for us to watch most nights and he still hasnt really had his breakout season yet. It is going to be distasteful to deal him off and then watch him become a regular ppg player somewhere else.

 
Old
09-20-2005, 11:41 AM
  #68
rt
Usually Incorrect
 
rt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Rarely Sober
Country: United States
Posts: 40,155
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I THINK it favors Boston by a wide margin, simply because Samsonov is an impending UFA who will want big bucks. Mara is far too good to give up for a rental. Of course, I say that not knowing Mara's situation.

If contracts were not a factor though, I'd say that this deal couldn't be more fair.
I really don't think Samsonov will be getting QUITE as much money as most seem to think. He's not going to except a contract that is mostly bonuses for games played and goals scored, and no team is going to pay him close to the max in garanteed money, when he has been so fragile the past few years. He should be greatful to get a GOOD LONG term deal. Something along the lines of 4 or 5 years at 3-4.5 per, with some options either way, sounds fair.

As far as Mara goes, I really doubt it would be difficult for Boston to sign him to an extension. He seems to like Boston a great deal. That being said, he likes Phoenix a great deal (as does anyone who's ever been here), as well, so I wouldn't just bank it being a given that he signs with the B's UFA next offseason.

As for Kolanos, he's a great talent who just needs to turn it around. The kick in the *** of a trade, and a return to the sight of his greatest successes, might just do it.

rt is online now  
Old
09-20-2005, 11:44 AM
  #69
PeterTheGr8
SavoringEveryMoment
 
PeterTheGr8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Playoffs
Country: United States
Posts: 721
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Karlstrom II
but i got marred a couple years ago.
That has to be the best Freudian slip I have ever read!

PeterTheGr8 is offline  
Old
09-20-2005, 01:31 PM
  #70
Darth Milbury
Registered User
 
Darth Milbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Searching for Kvasha
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 35,969
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt
I really don't think Samsonov will be getting QUITE as much money as most seem to think. He's not going to except a contract that is mostly bonuses for games played and goals scored, and no team is going to pay him close to the max in garanteed money, when he has been so fragile the past few years. He should be greatful to get a GOOD LONG term deal. Something along the lines of 4 or 5 years at 3-4.5 per, with some options either way, sounds fair.

As far as Mara goes, I really doubt it would be difficult for Boston to sign him to an extension. He seems to like Boston a great deal. That being said, he likes Phoenix a great deal (as does anyone who's ever been here), as well, so I wouldn't just bank it being a given that he signs with the B's UFA next offseason.

As for Kolanos, he's a great talent who just needs to turn it around. The kick in the *** of a trade, and a return to the sight of his greatest successes, might just do it.
If Mara is an impending UFA too, than the contract issues sort of cancel out. In that case, talent for talent, it seems like a fair exchange to me.

One of the rare Hfboards proposals that is good for both teams!

Darth Milbury is offline  
Old
09-20-2005, 01:32 PM
  #71
Darth Milbury
Registered User
 
Darth Milbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Searching for Kvasha
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 35,969
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ_Axelsfan
That has to be the best Freudian slip I have ever read!
LOL.

Darth Milbury is offline  
Old
09-20-2005, 01:41 PM
  #72
Drake1588
UNATCO
 
Drake1588's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 27,826
vCash: 500
Paul Mara has some real solid fans, and some who think he's just 'ok.'

Personally, I think that Mara is better than Samsonov, straight up. I'm a big Mara fan, period. For all his dazzling moves, Samsonov is to me deficient when it comes to execution. Will the new rules favor his game? Maybe... but I still value Mara as the better player, excluding positional need for the moment.

EDIT: Thanks, Mara is not a UFA... well then it's not remotely close.

Drake1588 is offline  
Old
09-20-2005, 01:41 PM
  #73
Gwyddbwyll
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 10,500
vCash: 500
Mara is not UFA next year - that's been established. 1 season of 1 game apparently does not count as a season.

I dont think Joseph is as shaky as said. He already has rebounded - he notched the best save percentage of any goalie in the playoffs last year, and .909 regular season is not considered bad by any means.

Raycroft may or may not have a top class career. I'm wary of a guy whose save pct last year was a full tenth higher than any achieved before. Joseph on the other hand has already proven his pedigree and already made his return from poor form. Class is permanent.

While Phoenix wouldnt say no to Raycroft, they have quite sufficient talent in goal already.

It is not true to claim Boucher has never looked like a #1. He has already had a fairytale playoff run and last year broke an NHL record for shutouts while playing on a team that let in more goals than almost anyone! Quite remarkable. Hugely inconsistant without a doubt but certainly has talent. LeNeveu is pretty solid but he also needs his chance to shine as he is not getting younger. Relegating him to #4 would be poor.

Goalies have lower market value, so I would consider Raycroft and Mara's value pretty close.

While I'd love Samsonov, the odds are not high. The Coyotes already have a slick, small and speedy sniper on the LW - Nagy. They basically have near-identical roles on their teams and teams generally are better with a mix of players, not all similar types.

PS - never seen Mike Barnett post on the Coyotes board. Sounds like Coyote Tony to me.

Gwyddbwyll is offline  
Old
09-20-2005, 02:25 PM
  #74
Darth Milbury
Registered User
 
Darth Milbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Searching for Kvasha
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 35,969
vCash: 500
I'd take Nagy before Samsonov. Nagy is another one of those guys who proved that I absolutely incorrect in most of my predictions. When he first came up, I thought he was too small and didn't think he had the speed (now, to be clear, I never thought he was a bad skater - but I saw him as more of a Ziggy Palffy shifty agile guy than a Paul Kariya top-end acceleration). Everytime he plays, he just jumps out on the screen to me. I think he can score 40 goals this year.

I'm much more high on Raycroft than you are, and much less impressed by Boucher. But, I think all of your other comments make good sense.

If Mara is not an impending UFA, than I see his value as exceeding Samsonov by a fair margin.

Darth Milbury is offline  
Old
09-20-2005, 03:32 PM
  #75
Beukeboom Fan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 11,107
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Barnett
Just because it hasn't happened before doesn't measn it won't happen now. Ever heard of the 1996 Vezina Trophy goalie Jim "The Net Protective" Carey? How long was his career? How protective was his career? With the new changes to the goalie equipment and the new rules governing the goalie, Andrew Raycroft's Calder Trophy winning season is impressive, but his career still very suspect. To base a career on one single season ... no matter how good that season was is very stupid.

Regardless of Raycroft's only single season to talk about, why would the Coyotes need him while keeping Boucher, Joseph and LeNeveu? Say anything you want toi about Raycroft, it still doesn't make sense for the Coyotes to trade away 2 quality skaters for a goalie they don't need or a skater that would be more expensive and still may not be on their roster 12 months from now.

The trade is a stupid deal from the Coyotes perspective. Doesn't meet one single need of their's but creates one along the blueline. Silly. Silly. Silly.
You don't think the Yotes need a NHL & play-off proven goalie? Sure it's only one season, but it was a hell of a season for Raycroft. Would you rather take your chances with Boucher, who has proven he doesn't have what it takes to be a legit #1 in the NHL, or a highly rated prospect when probably only about 25% of those type of guys pan out?

Cujo will likely be solid this year, in either case. He's just not the long term solution.

I'm not saying I'd make this deal if I was Barnett, but it would definetely be something to consider IMO. Only real issue from my POV is that Samsonov seems to want to break the bank ($5MM), which is a lot of dough for a guy that seems to have issues staying healthy.

Beukeboom Fan is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:27 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.