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09-20-2005, 01:59 PM
  #1
Fletch
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The new penalty calling...

may end up screwing up the game. I've always wanted to correct calls to be made, but last night in the PITT/Columbus game there were 26 PPs; 16 for Columbus and 10 for PITT. That's well and good, but the stoppages are annoying and the length of the game can be stretched mightily. Amazingly enough, the teams were a combined 2 for 26 on the PP, each scoring one goal. Hopefully it's just a matter of getting used to penalties getting called - and not the refs not letting teams play.

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09-20-2005, 02:06 PM
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Nich
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give each team 10-15 games before they get use to the new rules.

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09-20-2005, 02:08 PM
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Good point, I am out tonight, I will have to remember to pad the DVR recording for the extra time the game will probably take.

I hope they show the shootout.

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09-20-2005, 02:09 PM
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There were 37 penalties in the MTL/ATL game the night before. Players were quoted as saying that they thought the refs would relax on the calls once the season started.

The league's finally done what it needed to do 5 years ago. They've made the rules on obstruction black and white, no more interpretation from the officials. I'm sure it will be tough for some players to not put that stick in someone's mid-section out of habit, but what other option is there but to make it a parade to the box if the league is serious about making a permanent change?

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09-20-2005, 02:11 PM
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Fletch
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Don't get me wrong...

I've been complaining about the lack of obstruction calls since the Rivals days. I just hope that the refs aren't calling some of the more minor infractions that should be let go, like a little rough here and a little rough there, as opposed to those obvious tugs that slow down the players. We'll see shortly.

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09-20-2005, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
I just hope that the refs aren't calling some of the more minor infractions that should be let go, like a little rough here and a little rough there
But then you're asking an official to make a subjective call based on the circumstance. If the rule is, you can't engage a player without the puck, then it's the same for everybody, in every game, at every point in the game, no matter who's officiating.

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09-20-2005, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
may end up screwing up the game. I've always wanted to correct calls to be made, but last night in the PITT/Columbus game there were 26 PPs; 16 for Columbus and 10 for PITT. That's well and good, but the stoppages are annoying and the length of the game can be stretched mightily. Amazingly enough, the teams were a combined 2 for 26 on the PP, each scoring one goal. Hopefully it's just a matter of getting used to penalties getting called - and not the refs not letting teams play.
Good, let them call 50 penatlies for all i care. The players HAVE to learn, its not whether or not the fans dont like it or not tuff crap. The players will learn and the game will be 2x better with all the obstruction that goes on in the game.

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09-20-2005, 02:19 PM
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HockeyBasedNYC
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When i saw that video on the new rules the other week, i really had a hard time imagining how the players would adapt to those stricter guidelines. If the NHL does what it claims, i think well see 20-30 powerplays a game well into the season. Then one of 2 things is going to happen.

1.The players and coaches will adapt and the game will change.
or
2. The Players and coaches will rebel, and there will be a serious issue at hand.

Bobby Clarke has already voiced his opinion on the matter, along with some other coaches and GMs. Its interesting to see how it will all unfold..

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09-20-2005, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
I've been complaining about the lack of obstruction calls since the Rivals days. I just hope that the refs aren't calling some of the more minor infractions that should be let go, like a little rough here and a little rough there, as opposed to those obvious tugs that slow down the players. We'll see shortly.

Well if that little rough here and there is away from the puck then they should be calling it. Its one thing on the puck carrier but away from the puck there should be absolutely nothing.

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09-20-2005, 02:21 PM
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It's just the preseason. There are a whole lot of rules to learn at once and in a very short period of time. To panic about the penalties now is a little over the top.

It'll all be alright.

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09-20-2005, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC
When i saw that video on the new rules the other week, i really had a hard time imagining how the players would adapt to those stricter guidelines. If the NHL does what it claims, i think well see 20-30 powerplays a game well into the season. Then one of 2 things is going to happen.

1.The players and coaches will adapt and the game will change.
or
2. The Players and coaches will rebel, and there will be a serious issue at hand.

Bobby Clarke has already voiced his opinion on the matter, along with some other coaches and GMs. Its interesting to see how it will all unfold..

What do you mean by rebel? Let them rebel all they want..are they going to go on strike? The NHL runs how the game is played right or wrong....not the players or coaches...players and coaches want to play outside those lines then they can have fun sitting in the box all game.

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09-20-2005, 02:26 PM
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People are having problems with the fact is that the aim of the penalties isn't to accurately penalize every single minor thing that happens in the pre-season.

The aim of the penalty parade is to reinforce in the minds of the players to think twice before going with their conditioned response of hooking and obstructing.

Are the referees perfectly consistent? Of course not. Have they missed a bunch? Sure. Have they called a few penalties that probably weren't? Sure.

Does that matter in the pre-season? No.

It's all about bringing around a change in mentality.

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09-20-2005, 02:29 PM
  #13
Ola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
may end up screwing up the game. I've always wanted to correct calls to be made, but last night in the PITT/Columbus game there were 26 PPs; 16 for Columbus and 10 for PITT. That's well and good, but the stoppages are annoying and the length of the game can be stretched mightily. Amazingly enough, the teams were a combined 2 for 26 on the PP, each scoring one goal. Hopefully it's just a matter of getting used to penalties getting called - and not the refs not letting teams play.
It may end up not working too. If they set the bar really high like they have it will defenitly have some kind of impact in the end.

But it ain't easy for the refs to keep the calls comming once the regular season starts, 18000 people in the stands and they know they are ruining the game if they call more then 12 minors. And that is allot less then what we have seen so far in the preseason. I am also afraid that 15 games isn't enough, 164 games might not be enough. There are so many defensemens out there who never will be able to handle it and still be decent hockeyplayers and many of thoose D's are signed to long term contracts...

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09-20-2005, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola
It may end up not working too. If they set the bar really high like they have it will defenitly have some kind of impact in the end.

But it ain't easy for the refs to keep the calls comming once the regular season starts, 18000 people in the stands and they know they are ruining the game. I am also afraid that 15 games isn't enough, 164 games might not be enough. There are so many defensemens out there who never will be able to handle it and still be decent hockeyplayers and many of thoose D's are signed to long term contracts...
How are the referees ruining the game? It would be the players ruining the game because they can't follow the damn rules. Referees are going to be fined if they don't call the games how they are suppose to so i really dont think they are going to care if people are booing them.

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09-20-2005, 02:35 PM
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i don't quite get it when people say it "might screw up the game" or "ruin it".

the game has already been screwed up and just about ruined by the amount of crap players have been getting away with. i keep thinking it's like the whole beaten wife syndrome...fans have been abused so much by the NHL and it's deteriating level of play, but they're scared of leaving it or scared of changing it, because "omg it might be worse!" well people, it's already worse. it's been worse for a long while.

frankly i'm to the point where id' rather watch a game with 30 PPs than the mush hockey we've been getting in recent years

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09-20-2005, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine88
How are the referees ruining the game? It would be the players ruining the game because they can't follow the damn rules. Referees are going to be fined if they don't call the games how they are suppose to so i really dont think they are going to care if people are booing them.
They will care. Refs always feels a bit responsible of the product on the ice. A hockeygame with over 20 minutes of special teams are a terrible product. And if one team on the ice can't handle the new rules they have no option then taking a ton of penaltys, there are so many "hooking" kings in the league with longterm contracts who will go from beeing stars to marginal players in the league if its called like planed. Thoose guys can't change, the refs can. So there for there might be a ton of pressure on the refs.

Maybe I am overestimating the impact it will have, I hope I do. But I wouldn't be suprised if it don't work like planed...

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09-20-2005, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola
A hockeygame with over 20 minutes of special teams are a terrible product.
When you watch a game from even 10 years ago, you'll see that rampant obstruction has already rendered NHL hockey a terrible product. Like Levitate, I feel that 37 minors is an improvement.

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09-20-2005, 02:44 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
When you watch a game from even 10 years ago, you'll see that rampant obstruction has already rendered NHL hockey a terrible product. Like Levitate, I feel that 37 minors is an improvement.
If thats the attitude the refs have it would of course work in the end and we would have a allot better product.

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09-20-2005, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola
They will care. Refs always feels a bit responsible of the product on the ice. A hockeygame with over 20 minutes of special teams are a terrible product. And if one team on the ice can't handle the new rules they have no option then taking a ton of penaltys, there are so many "hooking" kings in the league with longterm contracts who will go from beeing stars to marginal players in the league if its called like planed. Thoose guys can't change, the refs can. So there for there might be a ton of pressure on the refs.

Maybe I am overestimating the impact it will have, I hope I do. But I wouldn't be suprised if it don't work like planed...
But games won't have 20 minutes of special teams when players and coaches learn the refs will not back down on there stance. Players can change, i dont understand why you think stars will become marginal players...i could see the marginal players becoming to slow for the "new" NHL and can't play defense properly so they will resort in the obstruction..thus leading to the coach benching them or getting rid of them completely. I think your underestimating that player will change once they realize the referees will not change how they call the game from now till the last game of the playoffs. NCAA did it this past year and games had 28 minors in them...did the players learn? Yes they did, after about a month and the game was faster and more exciting then ever without the obstruction.

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09-20-2005, 02:50 PM
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I was waiting my whole life to hear a wife-beater anology. And there it is.

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09-20-2005, 02:56 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine88
But games won't have 20 minutes of special teams when players and coaches learn the refs will not back down on there stance. Players can change, i dont understand why you think stars will become marginal players...i could see the marginal players becoming to slow for the "new" NHL and can't play defense properly so they will resort in the obstruction..thus leading to the coach benching them or getting rid of them completely. I think your underestimating that player will change once they realize the referees will not change how they call the game from now till the last game of the playoffs. NCAA did it this past year and games had 28 minors in them...did the players learn? Yes they did, after about a month and the game was faster and more exciting then ever without the obstruction.
Guys like Zedno Chara and Brian McCabe to name a few will have awfully hard time in the league if the cant hook and slash for example.

There isn't any other way for someone like McCabe to stop someone like Martin St. Louis then to hook and hold him. Will Brian let St. Louis past him every time he is on the ice? No of course not.

Its one thing to take away obstruction and interference, another to take away plays with the stick and hands on the body. Its basically like tying a D's arms behind his back. Guys like McCabe can handle the game without interfere and obstruct people, but if he aren't allowed to hook and slash anymore he doesn't belong in the league.

Brian can't change, Quinn would have to change his lineup and there are quit a few McCabes around the league with long term contracts....


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09-20-2005, 03:06 PM
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What IMO would be really interesting to see if the refs really calls the game like they have so far is the effect on tactics around the league.

A team don't take allot of penaltys when they have the puck. Anyone remeber how the all Russian formation in Detroit played a while back? That could be the way to go. Handle the puck as much as possible. Pass it to your own goalie if you don't have any alternatives but keep the puck within the team untill you draw a penalty...

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09-20-2005, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola
Guys like Zedno Chara and Brian McCabe to name a few will have awfully hard time in the league if the cant hook and slash for example.
LOL, Chara doesn't hook or slash.

If you go inside on him, he can poke check the puck away with his massive stick. If you go outside on him, he'll pin you against the boards. He's mobile enough not to have to resort to interference.

Nice try though.

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09-20-2005, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC
2. The Players and coaches will rebel, and there will be a serious issue at hand.

Bobby Clarke has already voiced his opinion on the matter, along with some other coaches and GMs. Its interesting to see how it will all unfold..
What are they going to do, strike? The resolve of the players when compared to the resolve of the league has been shamefully exposed.

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09-20-2005, 03:54 PM
  #25
HockeyBasedNYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine88
What do you mean by rebel? Let them rebel all they want..are they going to go on strike? The NHL runs how the game is played right or wrong....not the players or coaches...players and coaches want to play outside those lines then they can have fun sitting in the box all game.
I totally agree with you. But that doesnt mean there might be some problems down the road, with certian "purists" and "clarkes" that will whine. IM not saying theres gonna be a strike, lol jeeesh... imagine that.
IM just saying that there might be more of an adjustment period than people think, IF the NHL sticks to its plan. It wont be 1,2,3 everybodys cool with the rules.

Heres why: Its a 4-5 game and theres a faceoff in the defensive zone. Your team is up by a goal with a minute and a half left in the 3rd. They pull their goalie. 3 of the other forwards rush to the net to screen the goalie. One of your defensman go over to clear the crease. He skates toward them and tries to move them out so the goalie can see at least 10 feet in front of him. A penalty is called. Maybe 2.(according to the new rules you cant Tie up, Pin, or INterfere/Move a guy away from the puck) The ensuing powerplay yields a goal against and you wind up losing in overtime. These are instinctive things coaches will expect from players and players perform instinctively. Theres a possibility EVERY team loses a few games like this which leads to a league-wide temper-tantrem.
If these penalties start costing teams what they think are well earned points in the standings, believe me... theyll be a few outspoken coaches to say the least.
Just a thought.


Last edited by HockeyBasedNYC: 09-20-2005 at 04:00 PM.
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