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NH Union Leader - "Numbers game for Manchester"

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09-21-2005, 04:39 PM
  #1
Puck U
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NH Union Leader - "Numbers game for Manchester"

http://www.theunionleader.com/articl...?article=60699

Did anyone else know this part ? ? ?
(snip)

" Under the new collective bargaining agreement, when a player is claimed off waivers his old team is responsible for half of his salary (and that amount is held against the old team's salary cap). The new team gains an NHL player at half his actual salary. A team then could claim Cammalleri for less than the $450,000 minimum salary and the Kings will be stuck paying a minimum salary with no player to show for it. What a bargain! "

Doesn't sound like it's good to have on the bubble talent, and we could be forced to pay them to play elsewhere now, though maybe we can turn around and pick up someone good too ?

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09-21-2005, 04:48 PM
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King Blazer
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I think Kevin got part of the waivers system wrong. I've already sent a message to him...

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09-21-2005, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puck U
http://www.theunionleader.com/articl...?article=60699

Did anyone else know this part ? ? ?
(snip)

" Under the new collective bargaining agreement, when a player is claimed off waivers his old team is responsible for half of his salary (and that amount is held against the old team's salary cap). The new team gains an NHL player at half his actual salary. A team then could claim Cammalleri for less than the $450,000 minimum salary and the Kings will be stuck paying a minimum salary with no player to show for it. What a bargain! "

Doesn't sound like it's good to have on the bubble talent, and we could be forced to pay them to play elsewhere now, though maybe we can turn around and pick up someone good too ?
Yes I did know that. I have mentioned it a few times on these boards. Actually this is how the rule is. If a team wants to send a player to the minors, that is waiver eligible (is over a certain age or has played a certain amount of NHL games), then a team can claim that player and is responsible for the player's entire salary and cap hit. If he is not claimed then he can be assigned his minor-league affiliate.

The new "$75,000 rule" is when a player making more than $75,000 (in the AHL) gets called up to the NHL then they could be claimed by another team at half of their salary and cap hit. The players original team is responsible for the other half of the players salary and cap hit. This rule was put in place so a team cannot hide their expensive players in the minors to stay under the cap.

Players on 2-way contracts (with the AHL side being less than $75,000) could be called up and sent down regularly without being claimed though.

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09-21-2005, 06:05 PM
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Johnny Utah
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So Flinn and Parros are safe going back and fourth through waivers..?

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09-21-2005, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah
So Flinn and Parros are safe going back and fourth through waivers..?
As long as they are on 2-way contracts and do not make more than $75,000 in the AHL there should be no problem.

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09-21-2005, 06:18 PM
  #6
Johnny Utah
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If that's the case, then probably Clarke, Parros, Guiliano, and Flinn are all going back to Manchester because they are on two-way deals. I'm pissed about my boy Flinn, but he has only played one full season in the AHL in 3 years, so maybe he has to show Kings brass he can play a whole year. Ken Belanger with the way he is playing might win the job.

I gotta assume TK and Belanger make it as the healthy scratches at forward. The D is a big questionmark, that I believe will end with someone being very unhappy and maybe asking for a trade (ie. Corvo or Grebs)

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09-21-2005, 06:34 PM
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Game Misconduct
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I find it very hard to believe that Cammalleri is on a two-way contract. Remember that he signed at a time when he had a lot of leverage against the team . . .

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09-21-2005, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Game Misconduct
I find it very hard to believe that Cammalleri is on a two-way contract. Remember that he signed at a time when he had a lot of leverage against the team . . .
I am with you. This is a big reason why he will not be sent down this season. The Kings will not chance losing him for nothing.

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09-21-2005, 07:26 PM
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Sponge, is there any provision for injury call-ups being excluded from the waiver on the way up? I would sure like a link to the real waiver rules so I can peruse them myself. Got a good one? So far this is the most arcane area of the new CBA. Thanks.

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09-21-2005, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guzmania
Sponge, is there any provision for injury call-ups being excluded from the waiver on the way up? I would sure like a link to the real waiver rules so I can peruse them myself. Got a good one? So far this is the most arcane area of the new CBA. Thanks.
I am not really sure what your question is. When a player is injured the team can call up a player from the AHL to replace the injured person on the schedule. But as far as I am aware the $75,000 rule would still apply. As long as the player being called up does not make more than $75,000 on the AHL side of his contract he would not have to clear waivers.

Here is the best article I have found on the subject.


http://www.syracuse.com/crunch/posts...610.xml&coll=1

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09-21-2005, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Game Misconduct
I find it very hard to believe that Cammalleri is on a two-way contract. Remember that he signed at a time when he had a lot of leverage against the team . . .
From what we've been told back east by management, it's a 2-way contract...

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09-21-2005, 08:11 PM
  #12
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I am pretty sure that this is wrong. It really hasn't changed from past years - here is how it works:

If you claim a player from another team and then try to send him down to the minors, then THAT is when this clause kicks in. Even if you play him on your roster and then send him down later, you are respsonsible for half the salary if you claimed a player off the waiver wire and then waive him once again.

In other words, if any players that the Kings send down are claimed, the Kings are free of his salary. If, however, they claim someone from some other team's waiver wire, they have to keep him on their NHL roster, or, if they try to waive him again, another team could pick him up and the Kings would be on the hook for half his salary.

That is the exact way that it has worked in past years with the exception of the cap hit. Since the teams with the worst record get first choice off of the waiver wire, it prevents them from stocking up on all of the waived players and forcing teams to come to them when they need IR replacement players during the year.

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09-21-2005, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skolgoar
I am pretty sure that this is wrong. It really hasn't changed from past years - here is how it works:

If you claim a player from another team and then try to send him down to the minors, then THAT is when this clause kicks in. Even if you play him on your roster and then send him down later, you are respsonsible for half the salary if you claimed a player off the waiver wire and then waive him once again.

In other words, if any players that the Kings send down are claimed, the Kings are free of his salary. If, however, they claim someone from some other team's waiver wire, they have to keep him on their NHL roster, or, if they try to waive him again, another team could pick him up and the Kings would be on the hook for half his salary.

That is the exact way that it has worked in past years with the exception of the cap hit. Since the teams with the worst record get first choice off of the waiver wire, it prevents them from stocking up on all of the waived players and forcing teams to come to them when they need IR replacement players during the year.
Did you read the article? The $75,000 rule is a fact. But it only works on guys caoming back from the AHL. Guys going down can be claimed by another team but they pick up the entire salary.

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09-21-2005, 08:41 PM
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what some of u are missing is that some players are exempt from this rule. mostly youngsters.

Quote:
The only exceptions are players who are exempt from waivers, typically youngsters.
youngsters are the ones typically exempt because they have not played a certain amount of NHL games yet.


Last edited by king4you: 09-21-2005 at 08:48 PM.
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09-21-2005, 08:53 PM
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Keeping in mind that Brad Smyth is definately old enough to qualify for waivers, has an NHL contract (likely 2-way) and was just assigned to Manchester without going through waivers, I think waivers only apply on the way up. It was set up for just this reason. The Kings can play Smyth more than $75,000 and send him to Manchester without fear of losing him to waivers. If he's recalled and is making more than $75,000 on the AHL side (he is ) it's my understanding he would have to pass through waivers...

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09-21-2005, 09:48 PM
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http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...swer-cba_x.htm

Q: Any under-reported twists to the CBA?

A: Yes, if a drafted player stays in college until his class graduates, he becomes an unrestricted free agent on Aug. 15 of that year. This could make more players stay in college. Also, players making more than $75,000 in the minors have to clear waivers to come to the NHL. That, in effect, acts like a minor league cap because players won't want to have a salary that prevents them from moving easily to the big leagues.
---------

Anyone have a link to view the actual New CBA yet ? I know it's not up on NHL.com and you'd think that's the first place to look for it, but NOPE.

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09-21-2005, 09:59 PM
  #17
skolgoar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongebob
Did you read the article? The $75,000 rule is a fact. But it only works on guys caoming back from the AHL. Guys going down can be claimed by another team but they pick up the entire salary.
Yes I did, but it makes no sense - if Cammalleri is on a two-way contract then his AHL salary is under the $75k number and the scenario presented cannot happen.

Anyway, I have found another source for the $75k rule that does a much better job of spelling out the conditions at $75k Rule

It doesn't really deal with the issue of getting sent down, though.

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09-21-2005, 11:59 PM
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This is from the old CBA.....It describes what limits there are before a player must clear waiver's when being sent doen to the minors. Basically it is a "What happens first" scenario. If an 18 year old signs a contract but plays in less than 80 total NHL games by the time he is 24 (6 years) he must clear waivers to be sent down. But if he played in 80+ games in his first season then he would have to clear waivers to be sent down. This part of the waiver system is probably still the same.

Code:
Players Age --Years since signing NHL contract--Games in NHL
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Goalies:

          18                                        6                                           80
          19                                        5                                           80
          20                                        4                                           80
          21                                        4                                           60
          22                                        4                                           60
          23                                        3                                           60
          24                                        2                                           60
          25+                                     1                                            --


Regular Skaters:

          18                                        5                                          160                         
          19                                        4                                          160 
          20                                        3                                          160
          21                                        3                                            80
          22                                        3                                            70
          23                                        3                                            60
          24                                        2                                            60
          25+                                     1                                             --
 

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09-22-2005, 12:12 AM
  #19
King Blazer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongebob
This part of the waiver system is probably still the same.
So how was Brad Smyth just assigned to Manchester?

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09-22-2005, 12:24 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Blazer
So how was Brad Smyth just assigned to Manchester?
Because he is not on the Kings NHL roster. If he was called up this seaon he would have to clear waivers on the way up (if he is making more than $75,000) or definitely on the way back down.

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09-22-2005, 12:26 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongebob
Because he is not on the Kings NHL roster. If he was called up this seaon he would have to clear waivers on the way up (if he is making more than $75,000) or definitely on the way back down.
I don't believe that there are waivers on the way down any longer. It used to be a player could be assigned to the AHL without passing through waivers ONLY if he was left unprotected during the waiver draft and went unclaimed. The Waiver Draft is no more...

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09-22-2005, 12:44 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Blazer
I don't believe that there are waivers on the way down any longer. It used to be a player could be assigned to the AHL without passing through waivers ONLY if he was left unprotected during the waiver draft and went unclaimed. The Waiver Draft is no more...
The Waiver Draft is gone....true. But a veteran player will still have to pass through waivers to be sent down to the minors during the season. This has not changed.

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09-22-2005, 01:39 AM
  #23
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Okay, so if Parros or Flinn stick with LA and get sent down what happens? Both are 25 and Flinn has some NHL games under his belt?

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09-22-2005, 01:49 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah
Okay, so if Parros or Flinn stick with LA and get sent down what happens? Both are 25 and Flinn has some NHL games under his belt?
I think regardless, if they get claimed or not, guys like them will be a dime a dozen. We wouldn't be the only team affected.

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09-22-2005, 01:51 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah
Okay, so if Parros or Flinn stick with LA and get sent down what happens? Both are 25 and Flinn has some NHL games under his belt?
Then a team could claim them. But if they are claimed on their way down then the team picking them up would be responsible for their entire salary and cap hit. Since alot of teams are having issues with their own cap space as it is this probably would not be a problem unless a team is in desperate need of that type of player. However teams will probably be alot more likely to take a chance on a player if they are only paying half of their salary. So teams are more likely to lose players that are re-called from the minors. But GM's will be less likely to call up guys who are likely be claimed.

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