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Brown The New Deadmarsh

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Old
11-09-2005, 12:11 PM
  #26
Owen Wilson
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he's leading the NHL in hits at this moment

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Old
11-09-2005, 01:20 PM
  #27
Johnny Utah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Rock
As a fan of the kid, I'd say that given a little bit of time he will end up very much the power forward that everyone wants him to be. He's certainly tough, and has a serious shot and the sense for the net. He's also a smart kid off the ice (three OHL Scholastic player of the year awards). Put him in the '05 draft and he goes top 5 no doubt.

As much as I hate purely statistics based arguments, the stats are eerily similar:

Deadmarsh at age 21 in his 1st full season in the league:
Code:
GP    G    A     P     PIM    S
78   21   27   48    142   151
Brown at age 21 projected stats in his 1st full season in the league:
Code:
GP    G    A     P     PIM    S
82   22   27   49    120   197
Of all the forward prospects the Kings have, I'd say that Brown has the best chance out of all of them to make the 1st line outside of Kopitar. You've got yourselves a stud for sure.
Project and actual are two different things.

I like both guys, they are two of my fav Kings over the past decade, but, Brown is not Deadmarsh. Adam had all the tools. He could fight, hit, play all situations, kill penalties, play power play and was a team leader.

Brown doesn't fight, he has to work on his defense and is doesn't really strike me as a leader type. I'm not dissing him, he has favorable other skills, he can hit, skate, and has offensive abilities, but Deadmarsh was in the league of Tocchet, Roberts, and Neely; mean, tough, playoff guys.

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Old
11-09-2005, 01:22 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah
Project and actual are two different things.

I like both guys, they are two of my fav Kings over the past decade, but, Brown is not Deadmarsh. Adam had all the tools. He could fight, hit, play all situations, kill penalties, play power play and was a team leader.

Brown doesn't fight, he has to work on his defense and is doesn't really strike me as a leader type. I'm not dissing him, he has favorable other skills, he can hit, skate, and has offensive abilities, but Deadmarsh was in the league of Tocchet, Roberts, and Neely; mean, tough, playoff guys.
johnny, again, uh... Brown JUST turned 21.

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Old
11-09-2005, 03:38 PM
  #29
Johnny Utah
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Brown is not a scrapper and probably never will be, he doesn't have one fighting major in his whole NHL/AHL career. He will not be the type of guy that jumps into a scrum or challenges a guy who nails a teammate. Deader was doing that when he 16 and putting up over 100 PIM's in juniors.

You people can compare all you want. But Adam Deadmarsh is a power forward in the mold of Tocchet, Roberts, Clark, and Neely. They can all fight, hit, are mean, and can score. Brown can do a few of those things but does not fight and does not have the mean streak those guys had.

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Old
11-09-2005, 03:58 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah
Project and actual are two different things.

I like both guys, they are two of my fav Kings over the past decade, but, Brown is not Deadmarsh. Adam had all the tools. He could fight, hit, play all situations, kill penalties, play power play and was a team leader.

Brown doesn't fight, he has to work on his defense and is doesn't really strike me as a leader type. I'm not dissing him, he has favorable other skills, he can hit, skate, and has offensive abilities, but Deadmarsh was in the league of Tocchet, Roberts, and Neely; mean, tough, playoff guys.
Perhaps you missed the fact that the stats I posted were merely a eerie coincidence more than anything. But that's neither here nor there.

What is more important is that I don't understand your knocks on Brown here.
  • Determining toughness by fighting majors is as silly as comparing players based solely on stats. Al MacInnis, who is as tough a customer as they come and a playoff warrior, rarely dropped the gloves; being a playoff warrior isn't how much you can dish out, it's how much you can take and STILL get your team to win.
  • Show me a 21 year old forward that DOESN'T need work on his defense.
  • Ask most people involved in leadership training about leading and they'll tell you that leadership development is more about the leaders that surround you than your leadership "potential". In Colorado, Deadmarsh had guys like Joe Sakic, Mike Keane, and Patrick Roy to show him the ropes. In LA, Brown has JR, Conroy, Miller and Norstrom surrounding him. Simply put, Brown could become more of a leader than Deadmarsh ever was, but again, at the age of 21 it cannot be determined with any accuracy.
  • Back to the topic of "playoff warrior", it is unfair that you dimiss any possibility of Brown being a playoff warrior simply because of his absence in the playoffs. Deadmarsh has had the benefit of 7 post-season appearances in the NHL to show that he is a playoff performer, let's give Brown at least three before determining his status in that department

Mr. Utah, the problem here is that both of us are trying to determine what will happen in 9 years when Brown is the age that Deader is now, and neither of us are qualified to do so; if we did, we'd both have jobs in the NHL right now.

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Old
11-09-2005, 04:07 PM
  #31
Johnny Utah
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My point was merely to say that Brown is not Deadmarsh. Scott Walker and Shane Doan are younger guys that you can compare to Deadmarsh. What do those guys have in common, they have a temper and can scrap.

I'm not saying fighting makes you better, but that was a big part of Adam's game and not a part of Brown's. It was a big part of Gary Roberts, Rick Tocchet's, Brendan Shannahan's and Cam Neely's game also.

So when you compare Deadmarsh to Brown, it's tough b/c Adam was the type of guy that would fight Tyler Wright when he checked Palffy. He didn't care, he could take that role if he wanted. Brown can't and that's a big difference. Post that comparison on an Av's board or any fight board and you will get reamed.

I disagree about the comparison. Brown resembles more a Trent Klatt. Just because you can throw hits doesn't make you tough. Tyson Nash hits, so what. So can Kirk Maltby.

What's the difference between guys like DiMiao, Ott, Avery and guys like Maltby and Nash? The first 3 will back it up and have proved they are tough. If someone doesn't like the hit, they will oblige and drop the gloves. Brown skates away. Deader wouldn't do that either. It's not bad, its just a BIG difference.


Last edited by Johnny Utah: 11-09-2005 at 04:13 PM.
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Old
11-09-2005, 04:17 PM
  #32
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Brown looks like a 21 yr. old kid that's struggling offensively in a top-6 role to me at this point. Yes, the hits are nice...

By struggling I mean he looks "off" from what we saw in Manchester last season. I don't know, maybe it's the whole line...


Last edited by King Blazer: 11-09-2005 at 05:10 PM.
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Old
11-09-2005, 07:13 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah
My point was merely to say that Brown is not Deadmarsh. Scott Walker and Shane Doan are younger guys that you can compare to Deadmarsh. What do those guys have in common, they have a temper and can scrap.
What?!

Scott Walker is not a younger guy (at least not younger than Deader), nor is he someone that you can compare with Deadmarsh. While both are known to be physical players, Walker has nowhere near the offensive capabilities that Deadmarsh had, and Walker has nowhere near the size and driving ability to the net. Even ignoring the fact that Walker's shot couldn't come close to Deadmarsh's, comparing Walker and Deadmarsh is as ridiculous as you are making the Brown/Deadmarsh situation out to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah
I'm not saying fighting makes you better, but that was a big part of Adam's game and not a part of Brown's. It was a big part of Gary Roberts, Rick Tocchet's, Brendan Shannahan's and Cam Neely's game also.
By the time that Roberts and Shanahan became as dominant as they were, they getting into fights two or three times in a season if that on a regular basis. To say that fighting was a "big" part of their game is laughable at best.

Keep in mind that during the 80's and early 90's, fighting majors in the NHL were being handed out like candy on Hallowe'en when the game was a hell of a lot different than it is today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah
So when you compare Deadmarsh to Brown, it's tough b/c Adam was the type of guy that would fight Tyler Wright when he checked Palffy. He didn't care, he could take that role if he wanted. Brown can't and that's a big difference. Post that comparison on an Av's board or any fight board and you will get reamed.

I disagree about the comparison. Brown resembles more a Trent Klatt. Just because you can throw hits doesn't make you tough. Tyson Nash hits, so what. So can Kirk Maltby.
Scott Stevens hits, rarely fights. Chris Pronger hits, rarely fights. Shane Doan hits, rarely fights.

Tyson Nash fights more than all of them therefore Nash is tougher than all of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah
What's the difference between guys like DiMiao, Ott, Avery and guys like Maltby and Nash? The first 3 will back it up and have proved they are tough. If someone doesn't like the hit, they will oblige and drop the gloves. Brown skates away. Deader wouldn't do that either. It's not bad, its just a BIG difference.
Although I'm pretty sure that Brown hasn't had a fighting major in his career in the NHl or OHL, I would seriously hesitate to say that he "skates away from fights". He keeps himself out of situations like that.

This is the last I'll post about this because it's quite clear that you've made some serious mistakes in assumptions that don't make sense to me. While you are correct in that Brown doesn't drop the gloves like Deadmarsh did, it's obvious enough that they're very similar if guys like Andy Murray, who's been around long enough to see both of them play more times than any of us can say we have, are noting the extreme similarities.

EDIT - Forgot to mention that Stevens was one of the meanest SOB's on the ice, and he didn't fight that much in his glory years.

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Old
11-10-2005, 12:07 AM
  #34
Johnny Utah
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Brown does skate away from fights, he did from Pronger and a few other guys this year already.

I wasn't saying Walker is Deadmarsh, but if you have to compare other power forwards in the league to him, guys like Walker and Doan are comparable more so than Brown.

G A PTS
Doans best season 76 26 37 63 89 PIM
Walkers best season; 75 25 42 67 94

Deadmarsh's best : 76 29 33 62 71

Hmmm. Those numbers look very similar. All three can score, fight, are leaders on there team (Adam wore the "A", Doan wore the "C", Walker wore the A) and played in all situations.

I really disagree with your Shannahan and Roberts barely fighting comments. Shanny already has 2 majors this year, 3 last year, 3 the year before and 6 the year before that. This is also a guy that has fought Bob Probert in his prime. He has a rep, as did Deader for willingless to fight bigger guys. Roberts has 1 this year and 4 last year. And though those aren't enforcer numbers, those guys proved they can scrap if they have to and will stand up for those teammates. That is not a trait Brown has.

It doesnt matter is Pronger, Shanny, or Stevens rarely fight, it is the fact that they do and they did a lot when they first came into the league. Guys know if they hit Yzerman, Shanny will step up, as will Stevens and Pronger if they hit there stars. Pronger pummeled Buchberger when he nailed Weight when he was a King. Brown would not do that. Walker would, Doan would, and Deadmarsh definately would and that's a valuable trait.

Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. He's not Deader. If you are over debating, it is because you are stubborn, b/c your comparison is way off my man. And whatever Andy Murray says is right? Ha, you got to be kidding me.


Last edited by Johnny Utah: 11-10-2005 at 12:13 AM.
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Old
11-10-2005, 12:15 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah
Klatt is more skilled than you think, watch a few Canucks games from the past few years and you'll see. He didn't score a lot, but the ones he did score were pretty. Trent did have nice hands.

If Klatt scored any pretty goals with the Canucks, they were because of the Sedins...
He was as hardworking and hard nosed as anyone, but to call him talented or skilled is far from the truth...

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