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Do we have too many rookies???

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09-23-2005, 09:42 AM
  #1
EJsens1
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Do we have too many rookies???

For a team that is considered a true contender for the Cup, we sure have or appear to have, alot of rookies heading into the season. Bochenski, McGratton, Meszaros, Schubert, Emery, maybe Kelly. I'm not saying that all these guys are already guarenteed to make the roster, but things sure appear that way. Is that too many rookies to have on a team in one season, especially if we are contedning for a Cup??? What about in the playoffs??? Will they handle the pressure properly???
I understand that this is the new NHL with a salary cap, but for an experienced team, we sure have alot of new faces.

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09-23-2005, 09:46 AM
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miser
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No.
Murray plays with ice time differently than Martin did. No more rolling four lines. The top six get paid better and they will be used better! Any newbies (other than Bochenski) will be tested in less critical situations. Same goes on D, we have the horses in the top 4, let 'em play.

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09-23-2005, 09:50 AM
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I think a lot of teams will be fielding rookie and young players in order to create the salary space to keep more of their stars on the roster.

Those teams whose prospects develop the maturity required the fastest will undoubtedly have an edge in the playoffs.

I think the days of fielding an entire team of veterans are over, unless those vets are either extremely old, extremely injury prone, or not very talented, and thus are inexpensive enough to allow for talent on the top lines.

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09-23-2005, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miser
No.
Murray plays with ice time differently than Martin did. No more rolling four lines. The top six get paid better and they will be used better! Any newbies (other than Bochenski) will be tested in less critical situations. Same goes on D, we have the horses in the top 4, let 'em play.
Sooner or later, some of these rookies will be tested in critical conditions...its inevitable when you have that many. As well all know, losing 3-4 points is curical between home-ice advantage and a tougher first round opponent. Plus, relying on only 4 d-men is a deadly move. You don't want to burn them out. Having an experienced player on the 5th-6th unit is key so you can send them out there and know they can do a good job.

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09-23-2005, 10:16 AM
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The Mars Volchenkov
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It's not like we're the only ones. The Flyers are counting on Jeff Carter, Mike Richards, and Antero Nittymaki to make an impact. The Leafs are looking at Alex Steen to come in and make an impact. Montreal has Perozoghin, Plekanek, and I think Danis might start the season as their backup. Lots of teams will have to count on rookies under the salary cap.

The only rookie that looks like he COULD take on a big role is Bochenski, but all the other guys will be 3rd pairing defenseman or 4th liners.

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09-23-2005, 10:24 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craven Morehead
Sooner or later, some of these rookies will be tested in critical conditions...its inevitable when you have that many. As well all know, losing 3-4 points is curical between home-ice advantage and a tougher first round opponent. Plus, relying on only 4 d-men is a deadly move. You don't want to burn them out. Having an experienced player on the 5th-6th unit is key so you can send them out there and know they can do a good job.

I agree. A controlled exposure with experienced counterparts is more likely. Double shifting the vets (in rotation) with the young guys is a reasonable expectation.
The idea that two young D will be a pairing or that our new forwards will form a line just doesn't make any sense.

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09-23-2005, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensGuy
It's not like we're the only ones. The Flyers are counting on Jeff Carter, Mike Richards, and Antero Nittymaki to make an impact. The Leafs are looking at Alex Steen to come in and make an impact. Montreal has Perozoghin, Plekanek, and I think Danis might start the season as their backup. Lots of teams will have to count on rookies under the salary cap.

The only rookie that looks like he COULD take on a big role is Bochenski, but all the other guys will be 3rd pairing defenseman or 4th liners.
Carter and Richards are rookies to, but Philly is not counting on as many rookies and they are depending on Esche more. Ottawa with Hasek too over Emery, of which Ottawa may depend more, but we don't know that yet. Steen is one player and they might add Colaiacovo, in a 6th-7th spot. I wouldn't consider the Habs Cup contenders.
I don't feel comfortable with Pothier on the last d-pairing with a rookie. Our last pairing is weak, no matter how good Meszaros has looked in training camp. Our replacements on the back-end are rookies as well. I think adding a journeyman defenceman would be a good move.

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09-23-2005, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil
......I think the days of fielding an entire team of veterans are over, unless those vets are either extremely old, extremely injury prone, or not very talented, and thus are inexpensive enough to allow for talent on the top lines.
Come on....get real... What team would be idiotic enough to use that stategy? I mean just look at the Northeast...Boston, Montreal, Toronot...er never mind.....

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09-23-2005, 10:59 AM
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Rookies --- get used to it

New era, less money to go around for depth guys and rookies will become free agents sooner. Add a lockout year with a backlog and some very good draft years = four rookies or so (3 of which have AHL conditioning) is not out of line for the Sens.

The Flyers, the early Cup favorites, will have at least 3 - Richards, Carter and Niitimaki, who may even steal the starting job from Eshe midway thru the year. The kid has nerves of steel.

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09-23-2005, 11:13 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensGuy
The only rookie that looks like he COULD take on a big role is Bochenski, but all the other guys will be 3rd pairing defenseman or 4th liners.

What about Emery when he has to play 70 games?

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09-23-2005, 11:29 AM
  #11
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Don't forget these are 2 years worth of rookies.

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09-23-2005, 12:34 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craven Morehead
For a team that is considered a true contender for the Cup, we sure have or appear to have, alot of rookies heading into the season. Bochenski, McGratton, Meszaros, Schubert, Emery, maybe Kelly. I'm not saying that all these guys are already guarenteed to make the roster, but things sure appear that way. Is that too many rookies to have on a team in one season, especially if we are contedning for a Cup??? What about in the playoffs??? Will they handle the pressure properly???
I understand that this is the new NHL with a salary cap, but for an experienced team, we sure have alot of new faces.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Havlat9
Don't forget these are 2 years worth of rookies.
Meszaros is the only true "Rookie" from the last 2 years too.

When people talk about "rookies" coming on to a team it's the ones that were just drafted the year before. The players that are being mentioned are much older and have a wealth of experience outside junior.

Bochenski is 23 years old, with 3 years of NCAA experience, and 1 AHL rookie of the year season with very impressive numbers in a league full of NHL call downs.

McGratton is like 25 years old, with 2 or 3 years of AHL experience. He is only going to be used in the limited capacity of fighting. And I think we'll all agree he's an UPGRADE to our roster in that respect.

Meszaros is 19 and a true rookie this year, coming straight out of junior. However, he's played with men in Slovakia, and was named to the country's World Championship team. If you went and re-drafted the 2004 draft class again I'd be willing to bet Meszaros goes in the top 10.

Schubert is like 24 with Olympic experience for Germany and 3 years of AHL experience under his belt.

Emery is 23 and has 3 years of AHL experience as a starting goaltender. And is considered to me in the top 10 goalie prospects at the moment.

Kelly is like 25 years old and has 4 years of AHL experience, and was also named the captain of the team. Not to mention his excellent offensive numbers last year.


I'm not worried about our so-called "rookies" at all. They have been groomed as well as you can groom players, with the perfect amount of AHL experience for each of them. If giving a player 3 years of AHL experience and then easing them onto the lineup in a limited role is too hurried then I'd like to hear the proper solution. These aren't underdeveloped kids we're bringing up here.

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09-23-2005, 01:55 PM
  #13
EJsens1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Senator
Meszaros is the only true "Rookie" from the last 2 years too.

When people talk about "rookies" coming on to a team it's the ones that were just drafted the year before. The players that are being mentioned are much older and have a wealth of experience outside junior.

Bochenski is 23 years old, with 3 years of NCAA experience, and 1 AHL rookie of the year season with very impressive numbers in a league full of NHL call downs.

McGratton is like 25 years old, with 2 or 3 years of AHL experience. He is only going to be used in the limited capacity of fighting. And I think we'll all agree he's an UPGRADE to our roster in that respect.

Meszaros is 19 and a true rookie this year, coming straight out of junior. However, he's played with men in Slovakia, and was named to the country's World Championship team. If you went and re-drafted the 2004 draft class again I'd be willing to bet Meszaros goes in the top 10.

Schubert is like 24 with Olympic experience for Germany and 3 years of AHL experience under his belt.

Emery is 23 and has 3 years of AHL experience as a starting goaltender. And is considered to me in the top 10 goalie prospects at the moment.

Kelly is like 25 years old and has 4 years of AHL experience, and was also named the captain of the team. Not to mention his excellent offensive numbers last year.


I'm not worried about our so-called "rookies" at all. They have been groomed as well as you can groom players, with the perfect amount of AHL experience for each of them. If giving a player 3 years of AHL experience and then easing them onto the lineup in a limited role is too hurried then I'd like to hear the proper solution. These aren't underdeveloped kids we're bringing up here.
If that's your approach to it, fine. They are still rookies into the NHL which is hands above every hockey league in the world IMO. I understand that many of these guys aren't coming right out of junior, but they are being inserted into the NHL. 1-2 a season is fine, but when 5-6 rookies are playing, that's alot of players.
I'm not trying to say these guys won't cut it and I accept that in the new NHL you have no choice, especially in Ottawa's case where they want to keep their core, remain competitive and continue to develop our young players. But since the late 90's, I haven't seen the Senators bring in so many rookies in a given year.

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09-23-2005, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Senator
When people talk about "rookies" coming on to a team it's the ones that were just drafted the year before. The players that are being mentioned are much older and have a wealth of experience outside junior.
That's not what I mean when I say 'rookie', but I do see your point. Still, make no mistake - there's still a significant learning curve between the AHL and the NHL, and it's not always quick. We are definitely going to be carrying some inexperience in the line-up, but that's why you get 82GP before you have to play the games that really matter, and I'd say that there's more than enough quality and depth of talent to ensure another post-season appearance. I think what Muckler is doing is giving the younger players their shot, and if changes are necessary come crunch time then changes will be made. In a tight financial environment, that's really the smartest way to go about your business.

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09-23-2005, 03:42 PM
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It's worth mentioning that in 2003/04 (our best season), we brought in Prusek, Volchenkov, and Spezza (sort of, thanks Jacques ).

That's a backup goalie, a 5th/6th D-man and a 2nd/3rd line FW, which is about what we're talking about with Emery, Schubert/Meszaros, and Bochenski. McGratton will probably be playing 4-6 mins a game if he's lucky, so I'm not worried about his impact.

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09-23-2005, 03:59 PM
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It's important to realize this is a double year for rookies, essentially.

That is why there is this higher number across the league, the new system really has nothing to do with it. There are the same number of NHL players and NHL spots. All that will change is that lower line and pairing players will receive less money in order to fit under the camp.

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09-23-2005, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Senator
Meszaros is the only true "Rookie" from the last 2 years too.

When people talk about "rookies" coming on to a team it's the ones that were just drafted the year before. The players that are being mentioned are much older and have a wealth of experience outside junior.

Bochenski is 23 years old, with 3 years of NCAA experience, and 1 AHL rookie of the year season with very impressive numbers in a league full of NHL call downs.

McGratton is like 25 years old, with 2 or 3 years of AHL experience. He is only going to be used in the limited capacity of fighting. And I think we'll all agree he's an UPGRADE to our roster in that respect.

Meszaros is 19 and a true rookie this year, coming straight out of junior. However, he's played with men in Slovakia, and was named to the country's World Championship team. If you went and re-drafted the 2004 draft class again I'd be willing to bet Meszaros goes in the top 10.

Schubert is like 24 with Olympic experience for Germany and 3 years of AHL experience under his belt.

Emery is 23 and has 3 years of AHL experience as a starting goaltender. And is considered to me in the top 10 goalie prospects at the moment.

Kelly is like 25 years old and has 4 years of AHL experience, and was also named the captain of the team. Not to mention his excellent offensive numbers last year.


I'm not worried about our so-called "rookies" at all. They have been groomed as well as you can groom players, with the perfect amount of AHL experience for each of them. If giving a player 3 years of AHL experience and then easing them onto the lineup in a limited role is too hurried then I'd like to hear the proper solution. These aren't underdeveloped kids we're bringing up here.
Good post and very true, they are not rookies but have gotten their experience in a pretty damn good league (AHL) playing the North American style hockey with a number of NHL call-downs playing in the league against them. They are ready with the exception of Patrick Eaves who I believe should and will end up in Bingo because he is not NHL ready yet. Meszaros is NHL ready but because he is only 18 yrs old and the new CBA rule that makes you a UFA after 7 yrs in the NHL might also keep him in Bingo for at least one yr. If that happens then I would assume they keep Ward around as an experienced veteran in case Potheir or Schubert completely tank.

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09-23-2005, 05:42 PM
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We have the cap space to add a veteran player at the deadline as well. I wouldn't be too worried.

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