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Brandon Bochenski - Darkhorse Calder Candidate?

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Old
09-24-2005, 09:45 PM
  #26
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as good as he may be... his competition is way out of his league.

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09-24-2005, 09:49 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porn*
as good as he may be... his competition is way out of his league.
How so?

He was the top rookie scorer in the AHL last year. He's stepping into the NHL on a great team, playing with a guy he already has chemistry with in Spezza, and another top level talent in Heatley. He's scored at every level he's ever played at.

It's not always the top prospect who wins the Calder.

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09-24-2005, 10:11 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensGuy
How so?

He was the top rookie scorer in the AHL last year. He's stepping into the NHL on a great team, playing with a guy he already has chemistry with in Spezza, and another top level talent in Heatley. He's scored at every level he's ever played at.

It's not always the top prospect who wins the Calder.
come on... you honestly believe that bochenski might win it over guys like ovechkin, crosby, richards, carter, phaneuf???

come on...

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09-24-2005, 10:13 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Porn*
come on... you honestly believe that bochenski might win it over guys like ovechkin, crosby, richards, carter, phaneuf???
I am not saying he will, but let's say he does lead rookies in scoring this year, why shouldn't he be considered?

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09-24-2005, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boredmale
I am not saying he will, but let's say he does lead rookies in scoring this year, why shouldn't he be considered?
points aren't everything in the calder... as seen by defensemen winning the award.

I"m not saying he won't have a good season, I just dont think its realistic to say he's a contender for the calder.

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09-24-2005, 10:22 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Porn*
points aren't everything in the calder... as seen by defensemen winning the award.

I"m not saying he won't have a good season, I just dont think its realistic to say he's a contender for the calder.
For the most part the calder is usually a stats based trophy. So whoever finished top in rookie points will most likely win the calder(unless there is a goalie who has great stats himself ala Raycroft or an offensive defenseman lights it up). I don't think Bochenski will finish top 3 for points amongst rookies but if he does then he is a darkhorse to win(as the first poster pointed out, thinking he might because he was put in a great position with 2 all star linemates).

Good defensive players really don't get recognized for it till they played in the league for a few years. So as good as Phaneuf might be this year, his stats will not make him calder material(unless he has an amazing plus/minus).

There is always the situation that if Player X gets 65 points and if crosby gets 64 points the voters will give it to crosby just because he is crosby.

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09-24-2005, 10:23 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porn*
points aren't everything in the calder... as seen by defensemen winning the award.

I"m not saying he won't have a good season, I just dont think its realistic to say he's a contender for the calder.
You probably said that about Michael Ryder and Trent Hunter too right?

There are always bigger named prospects, who are probably better players with more potential, but they usually don't win the award.

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09-24-2005, 10:23 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porn*
come on... you honestly believe that bochenski might win it over guys like ovechkin, crosby, richards, carter, phaneuf???

come on...
You're listing guys that have much more hype than Bochenski. Why can't Bochenski win it over those guys? He's older than all of them, more mature, has played a full year of pro hockey already, and is going to be on one of the top offensive teams in the NHL.

Did anyone expect Trent Hunter and Micheal Ryder to be the top rookie scorers last season?

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09-24-2005, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensGuy
You're listing guys that have much more hype than Bochenski. Why can't Bochenski win it over those guys? He's older than all of them, more mature, has played a full year of pro hockey already, and is going to be on one of the top offensive teams in the NHL.

Did anyone expect Trent Hunter and Micheal Ryder to be the top rookie scorers last season?
not the same thing... this year will have a very deep rookie class.

Lead by two of the future stars of the game in Crosby who will be playing with Lemieux and probably Recchi and Ovechkin who will lead Washington.

Didn't barrett jackman win the calder? I could bewrong...

I guess opinions aren't appreciated here if they are anti majority, in this case sens. such non-sense.

and sensguy... hype does have a part in this, since the nominees are voted in.

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09-24-2005, 10:28 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porn*
points aren't everything in the calder... as seen by defensemen winning the award.

I"m not saying he won't have a good season, I just dont think its realistic to say he's a contender for the calder.
I don't see anyone listing him as a favourite for the award, but, people are saying that he could be a candidate. That's all.

No one is arguing that Bochenski is in the same prospect calibre of Crosby, Ovechkin, etc., but, he's a guy, that's a little older. He's in the right place at the right time.

All people are saying is that he may be able to make some noise.

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09-24-2005, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discostu
I don't see anyone listing him as a favourite for the award, but, people are saying that he could be a candidate. That's all.

No one is arguing that Bochenski is in the same prospect calibre of Crosby, Ovechkin, etc., but, he's a guy, that's a little older. He's in the right place at the right time.

All people are saying is that he may be able to make some noise.
noise is one thing... darkhorse for the calder is another. I agreed that he was good and that he'd have a great season, but I guess that wasn't enough for the other sens fans. For all we know, he could flop and get dropped off the spezza,heater line

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09-24-2005, 10:31 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porn*
noise is one thing... darkhorse for the calder is another. I agreed that he was good and that he'd have a great season, but I guess that wasn't enough for the other sens fans. For all we know, he could flop and get dropped off the spezza,heater line
If he's good and has a great season, wouldn't he be in contention for the Calder?

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09-24-2005, 10:33 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porn*
not the same thing... this year will have a very deep rookie class.

Lead by two of the future stars of the game in Crosby who will be playing with Lemieux and probably Recchi and Ovechkin who will lead Washington.

Didn't barrett jackman win the calder? I could bewrong...

I guess opinions aren't appreciated here if they are anti majority, in this case sens. such non-sense.

and sensguy... hype does have a part in this, since the nominees are voted in.
Who says those guys won't burn out? Neither have played an 82 game schedule, whereas Bochenski played one in the AHL last year.

Bochenski has to be included as one of the top Calder candidates for these reasons.

1. Bochenski led the AHL in rookie scoring last year. Vanek and Parise were behind him, yet people think they are better candidates than Bo even though they are on weaker teams with lesser linemates. It doesn't make sense. Bo has been able to score at every level he's played at.

2. Bochenski already has chemistry with the guy he will be playing with, Jason Spezza. Spezza's a playmaker, and Bochenski's a goalscorer. And their other linemate isn't too bad either...

3. Bochenski is coming into a great situation, on one of the best teams in the league that will no doubt be one of the top scoring teams.

It's not that your opinions don't matter, it's just you say Bochenski has no chance because it's a deep rookie class. Bochenski has proven more than most of the rookies coming into the NHL.

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09-24-2005, 10:33 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCoach
If he's good and has a great season, wouldn't he be in contention for the Calder?
not necessairly...

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09-24-2005, 10:34 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensGuy
Who says those guys won't burn out? Neither have played an 82 game schedule, whereas Bochenski played one in the AHL last year.

Bochenski has to be included as one of the top Calder candidates for these reasons.

1. Bochenski led the AHL in rookie scoring last year. Vanek and Parise were behind him, yet people think they are better candidates than Bo even though they are on weaker teams with lesser linemates. It doesn't make sense. Bo has been able to score at every level he's played at.

2. Bochenski already has chemistry with the guy he will be playing with, Jason Spezza. Spezza's a playmaker, and Bochenski's a goalscorer. And their other linemate isn't too bad either...

3. Bochenski is coming into a great situation, on one of the best teams in the league that will no doubt be one of the top scoring teams.

It's not that your opinions don't matter, it's just you say Bochenski has no chance because it's a deep rookie class. Bochenski has proven more than most of the rookies coming into the NHL.
he doesn't have the skill, talent that guys like crosby, ovechkin, phaneuf, carter, richards, etc... have... i'm sorry he just doesn't.

sue me for being realistic, and i'm not being a biased leaf fan.

on a side note, has he improved his skating and defense yet? Cause a 7.5B rating doesn't sound too great.

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09-24-2005, 10:34 PM
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With two season's worth of pent up candidates, I say not a chance.

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09-24-2005, 10:35 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porn*
not necessairly...
So there will be 5 other rookies who will have better than great seasons?

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09-24-2005, 10:36 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porn*
Didn't barrett jackman win the calder? I could bewrong....
when he did win it Zetterberg lead all rookies in points with 44(which is good but nothing spectacular). This year i expect at least 1 if not more to break 60 points which would make a solid defensive players get over shadowed.

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09-24-2005, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCoach
So there will be 5 other rookies who will have better than great seasons?
they could all have "great seasons"

great for one guy might not be great for another... there are different expectations for different players.

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09-24-2005, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porn*
he doesn't have the skill, talent that guys like crosby, ovechkin, phaneuf, carter, richards, etc... have... i'm sorry he just doesn't.

sue me for being realistic, and i'm not being a biased leaf fan.
It doesn't matter if he doesn't have the skill of those guys. I don't think anyone is saying he does.

But, Bochenski is in a better situation and will be playing with better players than most of those guys. He's also older and has more pro experience.

Talent doesn't matter in the Calder race. Production does. I think Bochenski will be up there in production.

Just look at last year in the AHL. Zach Parise and Tomas Vanek are both more talented than Bochenski. But he still outscored both of them.

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09-24-2005, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boredmale
when he did win it Zetterberg lead all rookies in points with 44(which is good but nothing spectacular). This year i expect at least 1 if not more to break 60 points which would make a solid defensive players get over shadowed.
not the point... a defensive dman won it. Therefore it isn't purely offensive merit!

And I must say 60pts for a rookie is quite high... possible but high. And if that is the case.. bochenski won't get near that imho.

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09-24-2005, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCoach
It doesn't matter if he doesn't have the skill of those guys. I don't think anyone is saying he does.

But, Bochenski is in a better situation and will be playing with better players than most of those guys. He's also older and has more pro experience.

Talent doesn't matter in the Calder race. Production does. I think Bochenski will be up there in production.

Just look at last year in the AHL. Zach Parise and Tomas Vanek are both more talented than Bochenski. But he still outscored both of them.
so because he did well in the ahl he'll do well in the nhl?

Do you have any idea of how many guys rock the ahl and then don't do anything in the nhl? don't make me laugh...

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09-24-2005, 10:41 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porn*
so because he did well in the ahl he'll do well in the nhl?

Do you have any idea of how many guys rock the ahl and then don't do anything in the nhl? don't make me laugh...
When did I say that?

All that I'm saying is that just because a guy is a better prospect, doesn't mean he will have a better season.

You contend that just because Carter, Ovechkin, Phaneuf, etc are considered better prospects with more potential they will have better seasons.

Well Parise and Vanek were better prospects last year, and Bochenski had a better season than they did.

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09-24-2005, 10:42 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porn*
not the point... a defensive dman won it. Therefore it isn't purely offensive merit!

And I must say 60pts for a rookie is quite high... possible but high. And if that is the case.. bochenski won't get near that imho.
i didn't say it was based on offensive merit, more the award is stat based(which comprises both offensive and goalie stats). The year that a defesive player won it, it was more because there wasn't any other good candidates then anything else, therefore Jackman got consideration(add to the fact he was a plus 23 which might have been the most impressive statistic that year for a rookie).

This year there is way to many good offensive players, that a great defensive player can play and he will get overshadowed by the stats.


Last edited by boredmale: 09-24-2005 at 10:48 PM.
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09-24-2005, 10:48 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boredmale
i didn't say it was based on offensive merit, more the award is stat based(which comprises both offensive and goalie stats). The year that a defesive player won it, it was more because there wasn't any other good candidates then anything else, therefore Jackman got consideration(add tot he fact he was a plus 23 which might have been the most impressive statistic that year for a rookie).

This year there is way to many good offensive players, that a great defensive player can play and he will get overshadowed by the stats.
I would have to disagree... if Phaneuf or any solid defensvie player steps in and makes an impact on their team... and helps contend for a playoff spot or something substantial then they should/could/may be considered.

i'm done with this... would appear the sens bias is unbearable in high doses.

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