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Old
04-09-2015, 03:03 PM
  #76
g00n
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
Young Mike Knuble's skills far outweigh what Wilson has shown to this point IMO.

The depressing thing to me is that he has more or less not shown any level of improvement in that area despite getting a decent amount more ice time, some of it with the best guys on the team.

The development of Wilson, or lack there of I should say, by this franchise at this point is a traveshamockery...
Knuble didn't hit the NHL until he was 24. His first year he had 1 goal in 9 games. His second year, at 25, he was 7-6-13 in 53 games. Finally when he was 26 he played a full season and was 15-20-35.

Tom Wilson just turned 21, and is 4-13-17 in 67 games. How much can he improve in 4-5 years?

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04-09-2015, 03:03 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
Young Mike Knuble's skills far outweigh what Wilson has shown to this point IMO.

The depressing thing to me is that he has more or less not shown any level of improvement in that area despite getting a decent amount more ice time, some of it with the best guys on the team.

The development of Wilson, or lack there of I should say, by this franchise at this point is a traveshamockery...
You know Mike Knuble is an outlier but its interesting that before the age of 30 (he played many NHL games and seasons by then - 6 real ones) he only once reached double digit goals and only once exceeded 20pts. (a 15+20 season with the Rags)

Wilson has 17pts in 67 games as a 21 year old. Mike Knuble had his first real season at 26 when he notched 13pts in 53 games.

He was like Wilson only that he didn't hit or fight much.

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Originally Posted by g00n View Post
Well we don't have to take THAT part of Avery. We can take the locker room presence from Brash instead. Probably one of the reasons people hated Avery so much was that he ran his mouth BUT never backed it up himself. Not so with Wilson or Brash.
Yeah Avery was a jerkwad. The LA locker room hated him. He would make fun of Dustin Brown in mean ways (not the good natured locker room ribbing) by making fun of his lisp.

I'm pretty sure in Detroit it was much the same.

And yeah..he NEVER answered the bell.

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04-09-2015, 03:10 PM
  #78
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Frankly I see nothing about Wilson to be depressed about. Even in his current role he sets a tone for the team identity. His teammates love him and its obvious. He is a lightning rod that draws penalties and he doesn't have to do cheap, dirty, underhanded **** to get retaliation.

He was told to work on his skating last off season and he returned strong results. Give him some time.

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04-09-2015, 03:14 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
Frankly I see nothing about Wilson to be depressed about. Even in his current role he sets a tone for the team identity. His teammates love him and its obvious. He is a lightning rod that draws penalties and he doesn't have to do cheap, dirty, underhanded **** to get retaliation.

He was told to work on his skating last off season and he returned strong results. Give him some time.
Agreed, tex.

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04-09-2015, 03:15 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
Young Mike Knuble's skills far outweigh what Wilson has shown to this point IMO.

The depressing thing to me is that he has more or less not shown any level of improvement in that area despite getting a decent amount more ice time, some of it with the best guys on the team.

The development of Wilson, or lack there of I should say, by this franchise at this point is a traveshamockery...
I agree that his offensive development has been botched, but I think it's too early to write him off. He has a long way to go, and he does not necessarily need to learn some crazy skills. Positioning, deflections, rebounds, a decent shot -- with his physical abilities it is conceivably enough to make him a contributor. And he did look good in that initial stint with Ovi and Nick. Plus guys like Latta and Bura are gonna improve, too, so the quality of his linemates should increase even if he stays on the bottom lines.

Another thought is that power-forward types who show any kind of scoring touch tend to get paid a huge amount. I dunno if it's greatly preferable for Wilson to score 20 and get paid 6M or score 9 and get paid like a 4th liner!

Finally, a great thing about Wilson is that with guys like Bura/Vrana/Galiev hopefully competing for ice-time, you can put Wilson with any of them to give them breathing space. He can skate, make room for others, is not a defensive liability -- great teammate to help develop more fragile skilled guys

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04-09-2015, 03:27 PM
  #81
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I'm not saying Wilson doesn't have a place on the team and isn't an asset for them but for someone selected 16th overall his ceiling is getting a whole lot lower IMO.

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04-09-2015, 03:28 PM
  #82
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Knuble didn't crack the league until he was 25 - 5 years later than Wilson. Give Wilson 5 more years before you 'see' a 'young' Mike Knuble showing more skill at the same age.

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04-09-2015, 03:41 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
I'm not saying Wilson doesn't have a place on the team and isn't an asset for them but for someone selected 16th overall his ceiling is getting a whole lot lower IMO.
I disagree. With the 16th OA pick you are hoping to find someone who can contribute and be a core player for years to come. Wilson fits both criteria. The only people disappointed with Wilson have expectations that are too high. He just turned 21 and jumped straight from the OHL to the NHL. To me, he has looked more comfortable as the year has progressed with the puck on his stick. Although he's a work in progress, he has a visible and statistical impact for the better on this team. Very happy with where he is considering how awful he was used by Oates last year.

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Old
04-09-2015, 04:20 PM
  #84
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Kid has no hands. He's like a bigger version of brouwer without the shot.

I would hope to see at least some flashes of skill over the course of a season (a good chunk of which was at 1RW). Even though he's less productive, I've seen more skill from latta to be honest.

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04-09-2015, 04:28 PM
  #85
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I'm pleased with Wilson's development to date.

I'll be really interested to see how he fares in the playoffs.

It could be his coming out party.

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04-09-2015, 05:08 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALLCAPSALLTHETIME View Post
I'm pleased with Wilson's development to date.

I'll be really interested to see how he fares in the playoffs.

It could be his coming out party.
I get the feeling whatever team/fanbase we face is really going to hate Wilson by the end of the series. And I can't wait.

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04-09-2015, 05:15 PM
  #87
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I hope that whoever we play in the first round.....Wilson has put someone through the board by game 1s end.

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04-09-2015, 05:17 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by third man in View Post
I get the feeling whatever team/fanbase we face is really going to hate Wilson by the end of the series. And I can't wait.
Yep. It's about time the Caps had a player of his ilk again. Not since Dale Hunter have they had a pest with some skill.

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04-09-2015, 05:19 PM
  #89
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I said this a few months ago... But the last time the other team didn't attempt to start crap with us was when we had Brash. Its become the same with Wilson now. No one is gonna try to goon it up.

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04-09-2015, 06:09 PM
  #90
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Judging him by points has to factor in depth ahead of him.

Some punk in Nashville = Calder

Wilson here is buried on 4 all year. Zippy PP time. It's impressive he has as many points as he has, especially in the oversized goalie pad era, if anyone wants to compare him to Knoobs.

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04-09-2015, 06:14 PM
  #91
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I'd actually like to see him in Brouwer's spot on the PP a few times. At worst, he's a giant body that defensemen will have to be aware of and that can screen the goalie.

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04-09-2015, 08:27 PM
  #92
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Wilson doesn't play anything like Knuble, and if he takes as long as Knuble did to develop into a scorer, he will no longer be a Washington Capital at that point.

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04-09-2015, 09:38 PM
  #93
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I'd say maybe he has a 40 point season at some point in his career but his impact goes way beyond goals and assists. I have zero issue with the selection, think he's fun to watch, by all accounts a good guy, loved by his teammates and plays a necessary role. Will end up as one of my favorite all-time Caps.

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04-10-2015, 06:30 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALLCAPSALLTHETIME View Post
Yep. It's about time the Caps had a player of his ilk again. Not since Dale Hunter have they had a pest with some skill.
If by 'some' you mean almost none then sure. Comparing Wilson to Hunter at this point is an incredible insult to the latter IMO.

Wilson is nothing more than an enthusiastic 4th liner so far. When given a chance to play with the top guys he brought exactly what you would expect such a player to bring, crash and bash and nothing else.

I hope I'm wrong but it couldn't be clearer IMO that he should have spent all of last season in Plymouth and all of this one in Hershey.

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04-10-2015, 07:36 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amjay13 View Post
I'd say maybe he has a 40 point season at some point in his career but his impact goes way beyond goals and assists. I have zero issue with the selection, think he's fun to watch, by all accounts a good guy, loved by his teammates and plays a necessary role. Will end up as one of my favorite all-time Caps.
Agreed. The thing about Wilson is his impact that goes far beyond the score sheet. Thats what I was getting at.

But yeah...17 pts in a supressed scoring season with no PP time and mainly on the 4th line whle only playing 67 games for a 21 year old is not too shabby.

The fact that he is a heavy weight + pest + can play alone makes him highly valuable and unique.

The scoring is gravy and it will come.

Last year 10pts in 82 games playing 7:56 per game 151 PIMs 5-5 Corsi 45%
PDO 101.9 197 hits


This year 17pts in 67 games playing 10:56 per game 172 PIMs 5-5 Corsi 52.7%
PDO 99.0 205 hits



70% increase in points in about 20% fewer games with 40% more TOI per game and a huge nearly 8% boost in possession metrics with not getting the same puck luck.

Thats significant progress

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hivemind View Post
Wilson doesn't play anything like Knuble, and if he takes as long as Knuble did to develop into a scorer, he will no longer be a Washington Capital at that point.
They are/were both 4th line muckers for the most part. You're right...Wilson is infinitely more physical, intimidating, strogner, faster and far more of a factor at 21 then Knuble was at 25.

No chance the Caps are letting go of him even if he doesn't turn into a 15/20 player


Last edited by BobRouse: 04-10-2015 at 08:43 AM.
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04-10-2015, 08:09 AM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
If by 'some' you mean almost none then sure. Comparing Wilson to Hunter at this point is an incredible insult to the latter IMO.

Wilson is nothing more than an enthusiastic 4th liner so far. When given a chance to play with the top guys he brought exactly what you would expect such a player to bring, crash and bash and nothing else.

I hope I'm wrong but it couldn't be clearer IMO that he should have spent all of last season in Plymouth and all of this one in Hershey.
We must watch different games. I've agreed with not a single thing you've said.

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04-10-2015, 08:21 AM
  #97
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anyone notice that trotz said that Ov waited over in Detroit to fly back with Willy after he was not allowed to fly back with the team?

Wilson will have 20-25 points next season

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04-10-2015, 08:35 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
anyone notice that trotz said that Ov waited over in Detroit to fly back with Willy after he was not allowed to fly back with the team?

Wilson will have 20-25 points next season
Did not know that. Thats pretty telling I'd say. Ovie has always had great respect for Wilson since Day 1 when he said we need his presence on the team (training camp last year). Ovechkin KNOWS what that type of player brings to a team. Not only that but it shows Ovie is a good captain and Wilson is loved in the locker room.

Wilson would have had 20-25 this season if he played in all the games.

I'd say he'll get upwards of 30 next year. Slow but steady progress.

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04-10-2015, 10:36 AM
  #99
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How many PPGs have we scored, heck plus 4 on 4, because of Willy's antics?

I feel like that should be in the discussion, somewhere, especially if he is among the league leaders in those "advanced statistics"

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04-10-2015, 10:45 AM
  #100
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How many PPGs have we scored, heck plus 4 on 4, because of Willy's antics?

I feel like that should be in the discussion, somewhere, especially if he is among the league leaders in those "advanced statistics"
In 62 games (the current sample cutoff at behindthenet) Wilson drew 2 penalties per 60 minutes. I'm sure some of those offset via coincidental minors but based on his total icetime and our scoring rate at 5 on 4/4 on 4 you coud make some rough assumptions and flesh out a goal total.

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