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The KHL Discuss the Continental Hockey League (Kontinentalnaya Hokkeynaya Liga).

Molodezhnaya Hokkeinaya Liga (MHL) - Part III

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06-05-2015, 05:14 PM
  #101
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you could throw finns in there too, but it's not about ambitions. they are just too small to compete with the nhl. there's no self-delusion there, and that's good. i can't say the same for russia. while restrictions here are of different kind, the khl won't be competitive for a very long time. well, in one thing we are competitive for sure, that's throwing amoral money (gained by pumping natural resources abroad) at spotrsmen. but that's the foundation made from sand, it won't get us far
We're not even trying, and neither are the Swedes. We have more work trying to keep our clubs profitable/afloat. It's not logical to to try and compete with the league with the biggest resources and the one where all the players want to play.


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06-05-2015, 05:18 PM
  #102
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We're not even trying, and neither are the Swedes. We have more work trying to keep our clubs profitable/afloat. It's not logical to to try and compete with the league with the biggest resources and the one where all the palyers want to play.
yep, it's always nice to know where your niche in the order of things exactly is. i said exactly this, i see no point in your post frankly.


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06-05-2015, 05:32 PM
  #103
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Bullcrap. Sweden goal is to grow good players, it's up to the players own ambition and talent to decide what league they want to play in. They already have a competitive hockey league as evidenced by their clubs success in various European club competitions over the past 25 years. Hell, the CHL final was played between two Swedish clubs. The fact that they could easily have an almost 20 team league with more or less financially capable and competitive teams, says they are doing things just right. Also, I've said it before but you people really need to let go of this attitude that the palyers belong to some system or that they owe something to it by not doing what they, as individuals, think is best for their careers. Whether they succeed or not, it's still their choice, and we shoudl respect that.
That was beautiful! I could hear distant trumpets in the background as I shivered at your words of freedom and righteousness. But my question is, could those two Swedish teams, whoever they were, beat SKA or CSKA? Just asking.

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06-05-2015, 05:42 PM
  #104
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That was beautiful! I could hear distant trumpets in the background as I shivered at your words of freedom and righteousness. But my question is, could those two Swedish teams, whoever they were, beat SKA or CSKA? Just asking.
Well one would have to wait for the KHL to take part in the CHL so we could see.

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06-05-2015, 06:55 PM
  #105
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Well one would have to wait for the KHL to take part in the CHL so we could see.
I would like to see Mg NK or Admiral in the CHL for a season.

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06-05-2015, 09:32 PM
  #106
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I would like to see Mg NK or Admiral in the CHL for a season.
They'd need to have the required success in the KHL to enter it, since KHL clubs aren't founding members.

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06-06-2015, 05:17 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by kp61c View Post
you could throw finns in there too, but it's not about ambitions. they are just too small to compete with the nhl. there's no self-delusion there, and that's good. i can't say the same for russia. while restrictions here are of different kind, the khl won't be competitive for a very long time. well, in one thing we are competitive for sure, that's throwing amoral money (gained by pumping natural resources abroad) at spotrsmen. but that's the foundation made from sand, it won't get us far
I'll never get this "amoral money" stuff...

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06-06-2015, 03:35 PM
  #108
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They'd need to have the required success in the KHL to enter it, since KHL clubs aren't founding members.
There is no way that the KHL would allow a successful team (SKA, Ak Bars, CSKA) to enter the CHL. What's in it for the KHL? The CHL is a rival league vying with the KHL for No. 1 in the European market. Why should the KHL help them along? To appear cooperative, they should offer the CHL Admiral and Mg NK for a season to allow them to get some nice long road trips on their CHL schedule. Try to help out like that, in the spirit of inter-league friendship.

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06-06-2015, 04:56 PM
  #109
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There is no way that the KHL would allow a successful team (SKA, Ak Bars, CSKA) to enter the CHL. What's in it for the KHL? The CHL is a rival league vying with the KHL for No. 1 in the European market. Why should the KHL help them along? To appear cooperative, they should offer the CHL Admiral and Mg NK for a season to allow them to get some nice long road trips on their CHL schedule. Try to help out like that, in the spirit of inter-league friendship.
It's not, it's a competition in the same vein as basketball's Euroleague of UCL. Neither of those is competition for the domestic leagues. CHL is a chance to earn extra income during the season. None of the clubs made a loss in it's first season and the the clubs that made it further in the competition made more profit.


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06-06-2015, 05:39 PM
  #110
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It's not, it's a competition in the same vein as basketball's Euroleague of UCL. Neither of those is a competition for the domestic league's. CHL is a chance to earn extra income during the season. None of the clubs made a loss in it's first season and the the clubs that made it further in the competition made more profit.
the khl isn't some domestic league, the chl was created as an answer to the khl expansion. i think it's obvious. i'm all for the khl participating in there and under their conditions to boot. but now it's out of the question. they look like some beer league for the time being and have a long road ahead to be attractive for the khl clubs.
btw, it's good all leading russian clubs ditched that shpengler cup. i always found participating in that kind of tournaments during the regular season detrimental, meaningless and stupid


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06-06-2015, 07:36 PM
  #111
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Yes, but how do players experience playing against different systems and where do coaches get fresh info?

or u want KHL to just self appoint themselves the no.1 league in Europe and wake up the way NHL has after the Super series one day, realizing that we are way-way behind, which we already are (with the likes of USA, SWE, and Can).

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06-06-2015, 09:19 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by kp61c View Post
the khl isn't some domestic league, the chl was created as an answer to the khl expansion. i think it's obvious. i'm all for the khl participating in there and under their conditions to boot. but now it's out of the question. they look like some beer league for the time being and have a long road ahead to be attractive for the khl clubs.
btw, it's good all leading russian clubs ditched that shpengler cup. i always found participating in that kind of tournaments during the regular season detrimental, meaningless and stupid
Not really. The whole project has been underway since the last European cup thing was buried. The clubs started the process slowly creating first the Nordic Trophy and then the European Trophy. The desire to create a longer lasting European club championship tournament has been one of the main corner stones of the whole project (as described by Kalervo Kummola a couple of years ago already and he's not even involved in it) and to get extra income for the clubs.

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06-06-2015, 09:22 PM
  #113
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Yes, but how do players experience playing against different systems and where do coaches get fresh info?

or u want KHL to just self appoint themselves the no.1 league in Europe and wake up the way NHL has after the Super series one day, realizing that we are way-way behind, which we already are (with the likes of USA, SWE, and Can).
Yeah, there's more benefits in clubs from various leagues in Europe meeting under a proper tournament. Players, coaches and fans are exposed to different teams, tactics and playing styles. It benefits all leagues. I mena even last season the Finnish media was talking how an all-Swedish CHL final should be a wake up call for our clubs.

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06-07-2015, 12:30 PM
  #114
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I'm not seeing that many brilliant or revolutionary hockey ideas being introduced from Europe that make the sport better. From what I am seeing so far, the KHL may be far behind the NHL, but it seems to be way ahead of anything other than the AHL. If the CHL can bring their level up to the point where they are clearly better than the KHL, then it might be worth signing up for. But until then, the advantage doesn't seem all that obvious.

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06-07-2015, 10:05 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
I'm not seeing that many brilliant or revolutionary hockey ideas being introduced from Europe that make the sport better. From what I am seeing so far, the KHL may be far behind the NHL, but it seems to be way ahead of anything other than the AHL. If the CHL can bring their level up to the point where they are clearly better than the KHL, then it might be worth signing up for. But until then, the advantage doesn't seem all that obvious.
So when our players cant cycle the puck, cant quickly developmchemistry or cohesion and, for example swedes can, you dont see that as disadvantage?

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06-07-2015, 10:59 PM
  #116
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So when our players cant cycle the puck, cant quickly developmchemistry or cohesion and, for example swedes can, you dont see that as disadvantage?
Yes it is a big disadvantage. I'm not sure how to evaluate cycling the puck, but there is a huge difference between Russia and Sweden or Finland when it comes to homogeneity, cohesion and team unity where everyone unites under a national banner. Sweden and Finland basically consist of one or two ethnic groups and a culture that is highly homogeneous, very similar to Japan. Russia has hundreds of ethnicities, cultures, religions, and yes, the disunity is clearly a disadvantage.

But if someone were to say that the antidote was joining the CHL, I couldn't begin to see how. And I don't think that Russian hockey is unfamiliar with other European styles. They play each other at every level of youth and senior hockey tournaments, and of course there is a very large contingent of Swedish and Finnish hockey players in the KHL. I would support the KHL champion playing against the CHL champion every year for the title of European club team champion, but I don't think it will come to be.

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06-08-2015, 02:51 AM
  #117
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Yes it is a big disadvantage. I'm not sure how to evaluate cycling the puck, but there is a huge difference between Russia and Sweden or Finland when it comes to homogeneity, cohesion and team unity where everyone unites under a national banner. Sweden and Finland basically consist of one or two ethnic groups and a culture that is highly homogeneous, very similar to Japan. Russia has hundreds of ethnicities, cultures, religions, and yes, the disunity is clearly a disadvantage.
Yeah, right. Which prominent Russian players other than Yakupov aren't ethnic Russians?

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06-08-2015, 06:01 AM
  #118
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Yeah, Yakushev72 starts to imagine things. When was the last time team Russia had some trouble in the team based around ethnicities that clearly aren't on the roster? Yakupov - yes, if you reach then maybe Radulov and then? Zinetulya Bilyaletdinov?

Finland at least have Barkov and Komarov haha.

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06-08-2015, 08:00 AM
  #119
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Yeah, Yakushev72 starts to imagine things. When was the last time team Russia had some trouble in the team based around ethnicities that clearly aren't on the roster? Yakupov - yes, if you reach then maybe Radulov and then? Zinetulya Bilyaletdinov?

Finland at least have Barkov and Komarov haha.
And any player from Turku.

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06-08-2015, 01:26 PM
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Let's put it this way - for whatever reason, and I have my suspicions, Swedish and Finnish teams are much more cohesive, unified and lock-step together than Russian teams. For Russian teams, the lack of cohesion has big consequences, particularly in the defensive zone, where their confused and scatterass play makes it more difficult than necessary to clear the defensive zone.

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06-08-2015, 05:28 PM
  #121
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Let's put it this way - for whatever reason, and I have my suspicions, Swedish and Finnish teams are much more cohesive, unified and lock-step together than Russian teams. For Russian teams, the lack of cohesion has big consequences, particularly in the defensive zone, where their confused and scatterass play makes it more difficult than necessary to clear the defensive zone.
When it comes to Sweden, it stems from their whole sports culture. They excell at the team playing part whether it's hockey or football. We can usually match them in that department in hockey and that also stems from our culture more or less. Junior coaching is a big part of it, both positively and negatively. If they didn't emphasize team play so much, we might have more offensively talented individuals in the NHL but also have a few medals less as a country.


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06-08-2015, 06:48 PM
  #122
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When it comes to Sweden, it stems from their whole sports culture. They excell at the team palying part whether it's hockey or football. We can usually match them in that department in hockey and that also stems from our culture more or less. Junior coaching is a big part of it, both positively and negatively. If they didn't emphasize team play so much, we might have more offensively talented individuals in the NHL but also have a few medals less as a country.
IMO, per capita, Sweden and Finland are as good as Canada. Canada puts more talented players out there, probably because of a much larger talent pool.

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06-08-2015, 07:01 PM
  #123
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When it comes to Sweden, it stems from their whole sports culture. They excell at the team palying part whether it's hockey or football. We can usually match them in that department in hockey and that also stems from our culture more or less. Junior coaching is a big part of it, both positively and negatively. If they didn't emphasize team play so much, we might have more offensively talented individuals in the NHL but also have a few medals less as a country.
Yes. Very true. Russia however prior to the fall of the Iron Curtain, same thing and clearly just about the best at it on the Planet for over a 25-35 year span. The transition from Communism to a Democracy, "open market" of sorts & so on, upheavels within the sports federation, funding drying up, what funds were available funneled primarily to supporting up & coming offensive players, mostly forwards and at the cost of others & the national team program. Indeed, a rift developing between Tretiak & Fetisov who ran against him for the Presidency awhile back as you know. The failure at Sochi, Tretiak openly admitting that yes, serious systemic problems at the developmental level that at one time were unimaginable as Yakushev72 alludes to. So hopefully they find a solution, get their acts together. Shame really. Russian hockey was top of the tree, and theyve fallen hard hitting every branch on the way down. Big problems in Canada & with the NHL as well, though in denial.... The Finns, noted for generally excellent Goaltending & defensive play if never much of a powerhouse offensively. Though obviously produced a number of great forwards over the decades.

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06-09-2015, 12:25 PM
  #124
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Yes. Very true. Russia however prior to the fall of the Iron Curtain, same thing and clearly just about the best at it on the Planet for over a 25-35 year span. The transition from Communism to a Democracy, "open market" of sorts & so on, upheavels within the sports federation, funding drying up, what funds were available funneled primarily to supporting up & coming offensive players, mostly forwards and at the cost of others & the national team program. Indeed, a rift developing between Tretiak & Fetisov who ran against him for the Presidency awhile back as you know. The failure at Sochi, Tretiak openly admitting that yes, serious systemic problems at the developmental level that at one time were unimaginable as Yakushev72 alludes to. So hopefully they find a solution, get their acts together. Shame really. Russian hockey was top of the tree, and theyve fallen hard hitting every branch on the way down. Big problems in Canada & with the NHL as well, though in denial.... The Finns, noted for generally excellent Goaltending & defensive play if never much of a powerhouse offensively. Though obviously produced a number of great forwards over the decades.
I completely agree! In the Soviet era, it was the Soviets who had the distinct system to which everyone conformed, and everybody on the team knew their role and how to play it. The goal was to create an invincible national team, but in the process, they surely created a thing of beauty - a work of art, if you will. So for example, the national team, but also every club team, assigned its 3 best forwards to the first line. In the 1970's, a team like Gorky Torpedo assigned its 3 best forwards - Skvortsov, Varnakov and Kovin - to the first line, so they could be assigned at any given moment to the national team intact. Everybody was on the same page throughout the hockey system.

With no real national team to establish as a final destination, now there seems to be no cohesion at all in Russian hockey. Certainly a lot less than Sweden, Finland and, of course, Canada. Its not surprising to me that Fetisov, who identifies himself as a fierce patriot, would eventually lock horns with Tretyak, who has really accomplished exactly nothing as the head of RHF.

In fact, you could say in some ways that hockey has gone in the toilet. Why is it that Russia, with a population of 143 million people, lacks comparable depth of hockey talent to Sweden and Finland, with a tiny fraction of the population? Because there is no hockey throughout much of Russia. Take the permafrost cities in the Urals and Siberia, for example. There are a number of major cities - Perm, Kemerovo, Irkutsk, Krasnoyarsk, Tomsk, etc., - where hockey barely exists! Bandy is the big winter sport in those places. Tretyak has failed badly in developing hockey throughout Russia, and its not surprising that Fetisov is taking him to task for it. Since the Soviet-era players left the Olympics in 2002, Russia has never finished higher than 6th in the Olympic Games! I'm glad someone is pissed!

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06-09-2015, 01:09 PM
  #125
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Yes. Very true. Russia however prior to the fall of the Iron Curtain, same thing and clearly just about the best at it on the Planet for over a 25-35 year span. The transition from Communism to a Democracy, "open market" of sorts & so on, upheavels within the sports federation, funding drying up, what funds were available funneled primarily to supporting up & coming offensive players, mostly forwards and at the cost of others & the national team program. Indeed, a rift developing between Tretiak & Fetisov who ran against him for the Presidency awhile back as you know. The failure at Sochi, Tretiak openly admitting that yes, serious systemic problems at the developmental level that at one time were unimaginable as Yakushev72 alludes to. So hopefully they find a solution, get their acts together. Shame really. Russian hockey was top of the tree, and theyve fallen hard hitting every branch on the way down. Big problems in Canada & with the NHL as well, though in denial.... The Finns, noted for generally excellent Goaltending & defensive play if never much of a powerhouse offensively. Though obviously produced a number of great forwards over the decades.
I take it you didn't watch the Worlds? Canada played in such a way that I've never seen them play before, displaying the best traits of Canadian hockey: skating, passing and scoring. When it comes to pure entertainment, they were miles more fun to watch than the Olympic team. They came to enjoy playing hockey, where as the Olympic team looked to be more afraid of losing.

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