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ESPN the mag: Foppa = Greatest Ever ?

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Old
10-09-2003, 01:00 AM
  #26
Ensane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironchef Chris Wok
You know when he was home in Sweden watching TV, who led the Avs to the playoffs that year?

Oh right, that other guy that plays center on the Avs.
And where was that same guy most of the season while Forsberg got the Avs into the playoffs this year?

Your argument might have held more water last year, but how the F can you question Forsberg's commitment after he pulled a sub-8th seed team up from the dead and brought them a division title? You might also remember that half of hte time that Forsberg was ont he sidelines that year, he was nursing ankle surgery ... oh wait, I forgot, you're too busy jumping to conclusions and playing into a blatant BC homerism.

Who has the better career? Definitely Joe Sakic, but everytime you say that Sakic is clearly better than Forsberg (in the present sense) you make yourself look sillier and sillier by the MOMENT.

Isn't there a phony trade rumor thread getting out of control that you need to attend to?

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Old
10-09-2003, 01:51 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironchef Chris Wok
You know when he was home in Sweden watching TV, who led the Avs to the playoffs that year?

Oh right, that other guy that plays center on the Avs.
And that has anything to do with Forsberg being one of the best players how? What did he do when he got in the playoffs? Oh yea, he had 27 points in 20 games to leed the league in points, without even playing in the finals. Forsberg was out that year with numerous injuries, so I guess that makes Joe Sakic better. That makes a lot of sense. Who led the Avs to the playoffs last year when Joe was out so many games?

So if Gaborik doesn't play any games this year because he holds out, and either Wes Walz or Andrew Brunette leads Minnesota into the playoffs, that means they are better players in your eyes right? What a poor argument.

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Old
10-09-2003, 05:06 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensane
Who has the better career? Definitely Joe Sakic, but everytime you say that Sakic is clearly better than Forsberg (in the present sense) you make yourself look sillier and sillier by the MOMENT.

Isn't there a phony trade rumor thread getting out of control that you need to attend to?
1. Ok. We'll see who's better this year, if neither gets injured. We'll see.

2. Na, we've banned most of those guys

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Old
10-10-2003, 07:35 PM
  #29
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Uh, Forsberg one of the best ?

He's damned good, but he's not part of the elite's like Gretzky, if you've ever watched Gretzky play in the 80's you'll know what I'm talking about. Wayne was so damned fast and make that puck do whatever he wanted.

I doubt Forsberg is even better than Messier in his prime.

Forsberg could possibly be eclipsed by Bertuzzi or Thornton anyway.

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Old
10-10-2003, 10:46 PM
  #30
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[QUOTE=Ensane]And where was that same guy most of the season while Forsberg got the Avs into the playoffs this year?
QUOTE]

As well as Forsberg played last season, it would have been for nothing if it wasn't for Roy's play between the pipes. Milan was almost as important as Peter, but I thought it was pretty clear that it was Patrick that dragged the team to the top of the conference. He was on a mission, pure and simple. The Avs got their 9th title, and possibly at the cost of moving past the first round... cause Roy didn't look like the playoff tender he usually is last season. IMO.

Also, when talking assists, I think looking at team mates is pretty valuable as well. Forsberg (as well as most of the other top guys), has pretty much always played with quality players. I wonder sometimes how big an impact this can have overall on a players eventual stats. I bring this question up, because other people keep mentioning different era's as being better for scoring. Well, if you start on that slope, then isn't it kind of like saying, if he played with so and so, then he would have been the best!

The best players make those around them better, but good players also can become great when they have exceptionally skilled teamates

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10-11-2003, 07:27 AM
  #31
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He's definitely not the greatest ever, but I would put him in the top ten if he played out the rest of his career. He is a playmaker, he is a leader, he is the best player in the league right now.

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Old
10-11-2003, 09:56 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quat
but I thought it was pretty clear that it was Patrick that dragged the team to the top of the conference.
No, it was NOT pretty clear. If you want to believe that Patrick was the reason, then good for you, but don't come around acting like he was head and shoulders above the rest of the team.

Personally, I think Forsberg was the main ingredient, and I did watch nearly all of the Avs games last season. The way I saw it, Forsberg started going a bit before Roy got his head on straight.

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10-11-2003, 10:54 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quat

Also, when talking assists, I think looking at team mates is pretty valuable as well. Forsberg (as well as most of the other top guys), has pretty much always played with quality players.

how much have those players done after leaving the Avs?

Kamensky?
Drury?

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Old
10-12-2003, 02:20 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensane
No, it was NOT pretty clear. If you want to believe that Patrick was the reason, then good for you, but don't come around acting like he was head and shoulders above the rest of the team.

Personally, I think Forsberg was the main ingredient, and I did watch nearly all of the Avs games last season. The way I saw it, Forsberg started going a bit before Roy got his head on straight.
Boy Ensane you seem pretty excitable. What an slur against the Avs from me.

Personally I didn't see every Avs game last year, but periodically read what was here on the Avs board... that's where I got the sense the consensus was that Roy was the motivation behind the team... especially at the begining. Plus from watching maybe 10 or so games.

How fine it is to be wrong about such an important issue! I'll be extra careful to not step on your extra sensitive toes the next time I "come around here".

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Old
10-12-2003, 02:27 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Loco_Avs
how much have those players done after leaving the Avs?

Kamensky?
Drury?
So, let me get this straight... you mean that most of Forsbergs teamates are crappy? I realize that's not what you mean, but I think you may be missunderstanding what I was saying. Forsberg has made players around him better, but also has benifited from playing on a deep organization and with star players. This is hardly a novel thing to say.

As for Drury, don't you think he had a bad year after being traded from a contender like the Avs to well... the Flames? He was totally miserable in calgary from what I heard.

Heh... Kamensky... cough..

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Old
10-12-2003, 04:12 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quat
So, let me get this straight... you mean that most of Forsbergs teamates are crappy? I realize that's not what you mean, but I think you may be missunderstanding what I was saying. Forsberg has made players around him better, but also has benifited from playing on a deep organization and with star players. This is hardly a novel thing to say.

As for Drury, don't you think he had a bad year after being traded from a contender like the Avs to well... the Flames? He was totally miserable in calgary from what I heard.

Heh... Kamensky... cough..

Heh I was more thinking along the lines that they were complementary players...
Those that can't produce without playing with the likes of Forsberg... well... 'a good playmaker'... there aren't any players like Forsberg...


He indeed has benefited from star players on his team... but that's mostly the defense and Roy...


What I was really trying to say, is that those stars weren't usually playing on his wing...



As for Drury... I hope that he'll flourish in Buffalo... but... I doubt it... :-/

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Old
10-12-2003, 06:01 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quat
So, let me get this straight... you mean that most of Forsbergs teamates are crappy? I realize that's not what you mean, but I think you may be missunderstanding what I was saying. Forsberg has made players around him better, but also has benifited from playing on a deep organization and with star players. This is hardly a novel thing to say.

As for Drury, don't you think he had a bad year after being traded from a contender like the Avs to well... the Flames? He was totally miserable in calgary from what I heard.

Heh... Kamensky... cough..
1. Drury had an OK season. I believe he had at least 20 goals and 45 points. Not bad.
2. Kamensky went to the RANGERS, therefore he should be exempt from this conversation.
3. Wasn't he injured, therefore never the same again?

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Old
10-12-2003, 07:23 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironchef Chris Wok
1. Drury had an OK season. I believe he had at least 20 goals and 45 points. Not bad.
2. Kamensky went to the RANGERS, therefore he should be exempt from this conversation.
3. Wasn't he injured, therefore never the same again?
Drury had 51 pts I believe, same totals as Reinprecht.

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Old
10-12-2003, 07:25 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Loco_Avs
how much have those players done after leaving the Avs?

Kamensky?
Drury?
Claude Lemuix.....

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Old
10-12-2003, 11:57 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
Claude Lemuix.....
Old Lemuix.... :p

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