HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Heatley Charged with vehicular homicide

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-07-2003, 04:54 PM
  #51
Absolut
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: London
Country: England
Posts: 1,136
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie_Girl49
I just hope for the Snyder family's sake that it doesn't turn into a circus. Elmira is a small town and I suspect TSN, Sportsnet, etc. will be there, the Thrashers, as well as assorted other AHL/NHLer's (depending on schedules).
I was thinking the same thing. I hope the cameras are not allowed in. The last thing I want to see is a camera zooming in on Heatley's tortured face.

Absolut is offline  
Old
10-07-2003, 06:36 PM
  #52
Wetcoaster
Registered User
 
Wetcoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Out There
Posts: 53,235
vCash: 500
Immigration problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffaloed
Felony vehicular homicide is considered a crime of violence (i.e.aggravated felony under US Federal law) for immigration purposes. Under the 1996 Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act persons convicted of aggravated felonies are subject to deportation with no judicical review. The INS is in court at this time arguing that a
state court's misdemeanor conviction of vehicular homicide is grounds for automatic deportation based on their opinion that it would be a felony under federal law. I thought deportation an unlikely outcome until yesterday's tragic event. Now it's a very real possibility.
He will face problems with his immigration status in the US if convicted. Under recent changes to the US immigration law, if convicted of first degree vehicular homicide, Heatley may be determined to have committed an "aggravated felony" for the purpose of US imigration law and if so and he is sentenced to one year or more he will be deported.

In 1998, the Board of Immigration Appeals in "Matter of Magallanes, Int.Dec. 3341 (BIA 1998)" reasoned that a DUI conviction where there were no injuries was a crime of violence because “the respondent was convicted of an offense that is the type of crime that involves a substantial risk of harm to persons and property”. Such reasoning would also apply to the crime of vehicular homicide and in this case there was more than a "substantial risk of harm" , there was actual harm.

In such circumstances Heatley is deportable from the US under INA §101(a)(43)(F) if sentenced to one or more years in prison ( note the mandatory three year minimum) and this would apply even if the sentence was suspended. He would be inadmissible and unable to re-enter the US. When an alien is deemed an aggravated felon, he is barred from the U.S. for twenty years and ineligible for virtually any form of relief.

Wetcoaster is offline  
Old
10-07-2003, 07:00 PM
  #53
Brooklyn Ranger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn, of course
Posts: 7,510
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan
Well I'm glad that you've never done ANYTHING wrong in your life.

Are you old enough to drive a car, or are you riding on a bike?

If you are old enough to drive a car, you should realize (obviously don't however) that mistakes happen when driving. Should a driver of a car be sent away for 15 years every time that someone tragically dies in a car accident when someone was speeding? I'm not going to speak for anyone else, but EVERY time I get in the car I go faster than the speed limit, and I'm a very conservative driver. I don't do 80 in a residential neighborhood, but the theory is the same.

My viewpoint is based on the the driver not being impaired through drugs or alchohol, and I'm not saying that Heatley should not get some sort of jailtime. I just don't think that Heatley should get the maximum time for what practically every person does to some extent.
Oh yeah, it was a complete accident that Heatley was going 80 MILES (not kilometers) an hour on a two-way residential street. That in and of itself is more than a simple mistake, that is completely disregarding the road conditions, not to mention the fact that people sometimes (even in Atlanta) walk along a residential street at night. Or that people are driving home (going in the other direction).

Certainly, people make mistakes when driving. But, the fact that Heatley showed a complete lack of understanding about where he was driving and how fast he was going made it impossible for him to control his car. That to me, is reckless. And as far as I'm concerned, anyone at any time driving on a residential street at that speed is an accident waiting to happen--one where people would be lucky to walk away with their lives. The fact that alcohol appears not to be involved (although there are conflicting reports on that and the test results will not be available for several weeks) has absolutely nothing to do with anything here.

Cars are dangerous when people drive recklessly. Regardless of whether it was a "mistake" on Heatley's part, he is reponsible for his actions. His actions led directly to someone dying and Heatley was very "lucky" that only one person died. Speed kills and anyone who even considers driving that fast where he was driving gets no sympathy from me. Driving 10-15 miles/hr faster on the Interstate is one thing; driving 50-60 miles/hr faster than the speed limit on a two-way residential street is NOT, even in theory, the same thing.

Brooklyn Ranger is offline  
Old
10-07-2003, 07:48 PM
  #54
who_me?
Registered User
 
who_me?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,477
vCash: 500
possible civil suit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draft Guru
Can't Snyder's parents decide whether or not they want charges filed?
the state files the criminal suit; Snyder's parents don't have a say in it. BUT Snyder's family can decide whether to file a civil suit against Heatley. I believe MacTavish was sued by the victim's family for $10 million. In Heatley's case, considering that Dan Snyder was a pro athlete who would've made millions of dollars in his career, Heatley will likely be sued for TENS of millions of dollars. this of course, can happen regardless of the outcome of the criminal suit.

who_me? is offline  
Old
10-07-2003, 07:58 PM
  #55
Iggy-4-50
Registered User
 
Iggy-4-50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ask your wife
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 5,374
vCash: 500
Quote:
In 1998, the Board of Immigration Appeals in "Matter of Magallanes, Int.Dec. 3341 (BIA 1998)" reasoned that a DUI conviction where there were no injuries was a crime of violence because “the respondent was convicted of an offense that is the type of crime that involves a substantial risk of harm to persons and property”. Such reasoning would also apply to the crime of vehicular homicide and in this case there was more than a "substantial risk of harm" , there was actual harm.

In such circumstances Heatley is deportable from the US under INA §101(a)(43)(F) if sentenced to one or more years in prison ( note the mandatory three year minimum) and this would apply even if the sentence was suspended. He would be inadmissible and unable to re-enter the US. When an alien is deemed an aggravated felon, he is barred from the U.S. for twenty years and ineligible for virtually any form of relief.
I remember this brought up last week on another board,but there are provisions for "special" relief, such as work or services... something to that effect!

Anyway i had a talk to a lawyer friend today about Heatley and while he admitted he knows nothing about Georgia Law he didn't see a whole lot difference then Canadian Laws and his opinion is Heatley won't spend much or any time in jail because he wasn't committing a felony leading up to the charges of vehicular homicide.
Heres the difference:
1) Driving legally drunk....felony
2) Failing to stop for a police officer....felony
3) Running someone off the road with your car (road rage)...felony


4) Speeding or reckless driving...can be a felony with testomony from a witness but only in extreme cases like "almost hitting 5 cars/people" before you finally killed someone.Otherwise it's not considered a "major" crime to be an idiot racing down the street.

Basicly he said,if reckless driving was a felony our jails would be too full to house the real criminals.

So if infact Heatley is found to not have committed a major crime leading up to the "accident" he won't be charged in the 1st degree and likely won't spend much or any time in jail.

Iggy-4-50 is offline  
Old
10-07-2003, 07:58 PM
  #56
teme
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 1,120
vCash: 500
Three years minimum sound very harsh, where I live you basicly have to shoot someone to get that much jail time. Flame away, but this is exactly the kind of thing suspended sentences were invented for.

If I ignore the law too for moment, my opinion is that a suspended sentence, community service, taking his driving license away for good and a huge settlement fee payable to Snyder's family, or maybe to Dan Snyder Trafic Safety Fund or something like that, is just and reasonable. It is just because reckless driving ought to be punished. And it is reasonable, because locking away an otherwise decent young man with no prior record to speak of and basicly further ****ing up the rest of his life for making an extremely stupid and costly mistake that there is no reason to suspect he'll repeat, is quite frankly not reasonable. Giving him a chance to make amends for what he did, by educating others or by financial contributions for example, makes perfect sense.

teme is offline  
Old
10-07-2003, 09:57 PM
  #57
Iggy-4-50
Registered User
 
Iggy-4-50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ask your wife
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 5,374
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by teme
Three years minimum sound very harsh, where I live you basicly have to shoot someone to get that much jail time. Flame away, but this is exactly the kind of thing suspended sentences were invented for.

If I ignore the law too for moment, my opinion is that a suspended sentence, community service, taking his driving license away for good and a huge settlement fee payable to Snyder's family, or maybe to Dan Snyder Trafic Safety Fund or something like that, is just and reasonable. It is just because reckless driving ought to be punished. And it is reasonable, because locking away an otherwise decent young man with no prior record to speak of and basicly further ****ing up the rest of his life for making an extremely stupid and costly mistake that there is no reason to suspect he'll repeat, is quite frankly not reasonable. Giving him a chance to make amends for what he did, by educating others or by financial contributions for example, makes perfect sense.
Well said:
Too bad the so called "law" cannot see the difference sometimes..i still think Heatley will continue his career in spite of this though...at least i hope so anyway.

Iggy-4-50 is offline  
Old
10-07-2003, 10:20 PM
  #58
lux_interior
Registered User
 
lux_interior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 8,630
vCash: 500
This is a terrible tragedy for all concerned.

My bias is that prison should almost always be used to protect society in general from unsafe persons. I'm opposed to using prison as a "punishment."

If it were up to me, I would have to decide if Heatly is a danger to the general public. Given this, I don't know if I can answer that.

lux_interior is offline  
Old
10-07-2003, 11:41 PM
  #59
Wetcoaster
Registered User
 
Wetcoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Out There
Posts: 53,235
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by T@T
I remember this brought up last week on another board,but there are provisions for "special" relief, such as work or services... something to that effect!

Anyway i had a talk to a lawyer friend today about Heatley and while he admitted he knows nothing about Georgia Law he didn't see a whole lot difference then Canadian Laws and his opinion is Heatley won't spend much or any time in jail because he wasn't committing a felony leading up to the charges of vehicular homicide.
Heres the difference:
1) Driving legally drunk....felony
2) Failing to stop for a police officer....felony
3) Running someone off the road with your car (road rage)...felony


4) Speeding or reckless driving...can be a felony with testomony from a witness but only in extreme cases like "almost hitting 5 cars/people" before you finally killed someone.Otherwise it's not considered a "major" crime to be an idiot racing down the street.

Basicly he said,if reckless driving was a felony our jails would be too full to house the real criminals.

So if infact Heatley is found to not have committed a major crime leading up to the "accident" he won't be charged in the 1st degree and likely won't spend much or any time in jail.
Reckless driving is not the felony - driving recklessly and killing someone is.

I suspect if your lawyer friend actually read the Georgia statute as I did and as has been previously posted, he would have quite a different take on things. In Georgia the average sentence for first degree vehicular homicide is 7.4 years as the Georgia legislature has recently increased the penalties and is pushing for enforcement. Unlike Canada most crimes in the US are state not federal and the crimes and sentences can be quite harsh depending on how the particular state legislates and prosecutes. You have to be careful not to import Canadian criminal principles and attittudes into a foreign jurisdiction.

If you pass a school bus, hit and run, flee police, drive recklessly or are impaired AND you kill some one "without malice aforethought", then you face first degree vehicular manslaughter in Georgia.

The other problem is that even if Heatley does no jail time under recent changes to US immigration law, a conviction will likely result in Heatley's deportation and under these new rather draconian provisions, there is not much leeway - you are barred from even applying to re-enter the US for 20 years. This concept of "aggravated felony" under US immigration law has been much expanded as the US has made it much easier to deport criminals. Also as I understand the "aggravated felony" rule, there is no possibility of judicial review by the courts of the decision to deport by immigration authorities.

See:
http://library.lp.findlaw.com/articl...minallaw_1_134

Wetcoaster is offline  
Old
10-08-2003, 06:25 AM
  #60
Iggy-4-50
Registered User
 
Iggy-4-50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ask your wife
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 5,374
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster
Reckless driving is not the felony - driving recklessly and killing someone is.

I suspect if your lawyer friend actually read the Georgia statute as I did and as has been previously posted, he would have quite a different take on things. In Georgia the average sentence for first degree vehicular homicide is 7.4 years as the Georgia legislature has recently increased the penalties and is pushing for enforcement. Unlike Canada most crimes in the US are state not federal and the crimes and sentences can be quite harsh depending on how the particular state legislates and prosecutes. You have to be careful not to import Canadian criminal principles and attittudes into a foreign jurisdiction.
You didn't read my post,its the "leading up" to the accident that he was talking about,if Heatley was drunk he would have no chance but in his opinion because their was no felony leading up to the crash they'll go easyer on him.

Iggy-4-50 is offline  
Old
10-08-2003, 12:51 PM
  #61
Wetcoaster
Registered User
 
Wetcoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Out There
Posts: 53,235
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by T@T
You didn't read my post,its the "leading up" to the accident that he was talking about,if Heatley was drunk he would have no chance but in his opinion because their was no felony leading up to the crash they'll go easyer on him.

I read your post and I understand what you wrote and I disagree. having been a peace officer and lawyer I have a different view having looked at the Georgia statute and case law.

Also it is not yet clear whether or not Heatley was impaired. As noted in another post in response to you, his lawyer appears to have admitted that Heatley had been drinking but that the amount of alscohol was not sufficient to result in a finding he was impaired. However as I also noted drivers in Georgia can be found impaired with minimal amounts of alcohol (or any prohibited drug) in their system under the "less safe driver" definition.

http://www.duiguy.com/law.htm

Wetcoaster is offline  
Old
10-08-2003, 01:53 PM
  #62
Wetcoaster
Registered User
 
Wetcoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Out There
Posts: 53,235
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VAThrasher
As opposed to what, a brilliant British Columbian jury? Give me a break...
Since he is not charged with murder but rather first degree vehicular homicide, the point is somewhat moot.

In British Columbia he would likely be charged with criminal negligence causing death (maximum life in prison) or dangerous driving causing death (maximum 14 years in prison) under the Canadian Criminal Code.

Recently in BC a young street racer received 8 months in jail when his passenger died when the vehicle crashed into a wall when convicted of criminal negligence causing death and impaired driving. There are no minimum sentences for this offence in Canada although there are minimums for multiple impaired driving convictions.

See:
http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/LegalCom.../Chapter23.htm

Wetcoaster is offline  
Old
10-08-2003, 04:43 PM
  #63
Dad
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Left Coast
Posts: 63
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Dad
Quote!?
Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger
It's going to be a very tough road back for Heatley and honestly, I have very little sympathy for him because he was reckless, not only with his own life, but with another person's life.

Great post regarding Heatley/Snyder situation (from the AJHL message board)... by stan
"Anonymous" wrote:
Heatley did something stupid, and killed a friend and a teammate, and his own career will certainly go down the ****ter.

"Anonymous" responded:

No, it won't. People like Dany Heatley attain the levels in the profession of their choice not just because of immense talent but because of a tremendous desire and passion for what they love, an unwavering commitment to training and remaining disciplined, and because of the unconditional family support they receive. Nobody feels worse than Dany, who will suffer the consequences and then come back as strong as ever. And so he should.

We try to rehabilitate murderers, rapists, and child molesters, people with no goals or dreams, people who have contributed nothing to society, only taken away from it. I am a strong supporter of capital punishment for those who deserve it, i am also a strong supporter of people who made a mistake and deserve a second chance.

Heatley did not pull a gun and shoot his friend, he did not get behind the wheel drunk and kill his friend; 2 young men got into a car and went for a joy ride and the results were tragic. It happens everyday. It is sad, it is tragic, it is far from murder.

The only reason some of you are calling for Heatley's head is jealousy. You would not be jealous of a child molester or a rapist because you would not want anyone you love to be one of these people, but take a good Canadian boy, make him an NHL star, and all the boo birds come out just waiting for him to make a mistake. Heaven forbid, but if this situation was 2 fourth line AJHL players in a 1976 GMC pick up all of this loathing would not exist, there would just be sympathy for young lives lost in a tragic accident. Many Canadians can relate to the 4th line player, but envy and quitely (or sometimes not so quitely)have an inner excitement when the super star they could never commit to becoming slips up.

Every Canadian dreams of his children being a hockey player, these days for both their male and female children. Some will stop at nothing to get there, the so called dark side of hockey. Unfortunately many Canadians cannot accept somebody else being successful and reaching the goals they had for themselves or their children and will take every opportunity to "bring down" the one or two who did reach their dream. Wayne Gretzky was called "The Great One", not "The Only One". There is a roster spot available for many players at all levels; does trashing other players make your son or daughter better? Does it put them closer to their dreams?

Heatley will get tremendous support from his family, from Snyder's family, from The Atlanta Thrashers, from all NHL players, and from all of those who believe in the dreams of young people everywhere. These are truly happy, successful people who have strived along with their families to achieve the pinnacle of their profession, ignoring the large group of people who find it easier to bring the successful down to their level rather than to work hard to bring themselves up to the level required to truly succeed.

Snyder is with his god and living in the hearts of hockey fans everywhere. Heatley is in the process of making peace with his god, and his dream lives in the hearts of true hockey fans who can't wait to see him on the ice again once he has paid for the simple errors of a young man living his dreams.


**I have changed the posters names to "anonymous" since who wrote it doesn't matter, but what they wrote does

Dad is offline  
Old
10-08-2003, 06:20 PM
  #64
Brooklyn Ranger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn, of course
Posts: 7,510
vCash: 500
Dear "Dad",

If Heatley is allowed to play hockey again, I have no problem with that. However, Heatley is not an innocent in this mess--he had a choice and could have made a different decision. Now--regardless, of the fact that he is a gifted hockey player-- he will have to face the consequences. If that involves jail and being prohibited from working in the United States again, it's because of a decision that Heatley made. The fact that he is a "good boy" and "made a mistake" will be taken into consideration (most likely resulting in a sentence substantially less than the maximum penalty), but in no way excuses his behavior or makes him less responsible. If you think that I'm jealous because I think Heatley should be prosecuted or because I choose to reserve my sympathy for the victims in this incident, so be it. But, then again, I would NEVER, EVER even consider driving 80 miles/hr down a residential street, so what do I know.

Brooklyn Ranger is offline  
Old
10-08-2003, 06:25 PM
  #65
mmbt
Cheeky Monkey
 
mmbt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: California
Country: United States
Posts: 9,205
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger
But, then again, I would NEVER, EVER even consider driving 80 miles/hr down a residential street, so what do I know.
Well, according to some people in this thread, it makes you some kind of freak who hasn't lived life to the fullest. But I'm with you ... having a sense of responsibility and concern for the welfare of others even when you're young is nothing to be ashamed of.

mmbt is offline  
Old
10-08-2003, 09:23 PM
  #66
gb701
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 490
vCash: 500
[QUOTE=Wetcoaster]I read your post and I understand what you wrote and I disagree. having been a peace officer and lawyer I have a different view having looked at the Georgia statute and case law."

I have reviewed your several posts and am quite impressed at the effort you put into researching points of law raised in some of the posts that have been made on the issues in this tragic case.

I am less impressed by your apparent willingness to jump the gun by consistently sticking to the "worst case" that can arise from the charges that are laid and making what appear to be predictions of dire consequences. Given your proclaimed experience as both a peace officer and lawyer, you should know better than to make very specific comments implying that the situation is clear - based apparently on some legal research but without any better idea than anyone else has as to what the facts were, and perhaps more importantly what the prosecution might or might not be able to prove.

Without those details, any conjecture as to either the criminal sentencing options (including ability to plea bargain out of the felony provisions altogether) or the immigration implications is a waste of time and highly prejudicial to Dany. A lawyer should know better - particularly on a board like this where there are many people feeding off of the guesses.

gb701 is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 06:54 AM
  #67
Bird Law
Daisy's back.
 
Bird Law's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NoVA / NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 67,416
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Bird Law
Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
It is nothing but pure bull**** that Heatley is charged with 1st degree vehicular homicide...another word for murder. I don't think even a Georgia jury would be dumb enough to convict Heatley for murder in this case.

The charge should be vehicular manslaughter.
Way to read the laws before ya speak there, Vanny.

Common. Go back, read the law of the state (a simple Google search'll pull it up) and come back when you read it. The crime CLEARLY fits the law...

Bird Law is online now  
Old
10-09-2003, 07:55 AM
  #68
Wetcoaster
Registered User
 
Wetcoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Out There
Posts: 53,235
vCash: 500
[QUOTE=gb701]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster
I read your post and I understand what you wrote and I disagree. having been a peace officer and lawyer I have a different view having looked at the Georgia statute and case law."

I have reviewed your several posts and am quite impressed at the effort you put into researching points of law raised in some of the posts that have been made on the issues in this tragic case.

I am less impressed by your apparent willingness to jump the gun by consistently sticking to the "worst case" that can arise from the charges that are laid and making what appear to be predictions of dire consequences. Given your proclaimed experience as both a peace officer and lawyer, you should know better than to make very specific comments implying that the situation is clear - based apparently on some legal research but without any better idea than anyone else has as to what the facts were, and perhaps more importantly what the prosecution might or might not be able to prove.

Without those details, any conjecture as to either the criminal sentencing options (including ability to plea bargain out of the felony provisions altogether) or the immigration implications is a waste of time and highly prejudicial to Dany. A lawyer should know better - particularly on a board like this where there are many people feeding off of the guesses.
Perhaps you have failed to notice but about 99.9% of the posts on these boards are opinions and conjecture - that is what happens here. Much of what is given as opinion and conjecture is based upon little or no knowledge - I choose to supply the knowledge.

If you have read my posts then you should have noticed that I have laid out the possible range of penalties and what constitutes the constituent elements of the various offenses. I have also noted the possible outcomes including plea bargains and such things as suspended sentences as well as lesser offences such as second degree vehicular homicide.

However the fact remains that if any person is convicted of first degree vehicular homicide in Georgia, the mimimum sentence possible is three years in prison with a possibility of up to fifteen years. According to US legal experts (including Heatley's own attorney Ed Garland) the current average sentence for this offence being imposed by the Georgia courts is 7.4 years incarceration.

According to the terms of the statute, if a driver is guilty of reckless driving (or is impaired by alcohol or has any level of prohibited drugs in his system amongst three other possible conditions) and another dies as a result where there is no malice afforethought (in other words you do not need specific criminal intent just negligence), that is first degree vehicular homicide. It is open to Heatley to try to demonstrate to a court (or have the DA agree) that his actions did not constitute reckless driving but he appears to have an uphill battle.

On the facts of the case as reported Heatley was driving at 80+ mph in a residential area with a 35 mph speed limit on a winding two lane road when he lost control, swerved, spun out and struck a retaining wall. His high performance sports car was car split in half ejecting his passenger who subsequently died of head injuries. Based on the definition of "reckless driving" in the Georgia Code, this seems to fit within the terms of that definition. The police certainly seem to think so because he has already been charged with that offence.

His own lawyer has admitted that Heatley had some alcohol in his system but that states that it was not sufficient to impair his ability to drive. Another poster (one of the moderators) pointed out that in Georgia there is a "less safe driver" definition where even minimal amounts of alcohol (less than a BAC of .08) can result in findings impaired driving and he provided the link to the site maintained bby a Georgia lawyer who specializes in DUI cases.

Under US immigration law even if Heatley's sentence is suspended or deferred (remember there is a minimum three years in prison if convicted) and he does not a day of jail time, first degree vehicular homicide is an "aggravated felony" for the purposes of the immigration matters. Suspended and deferred sentences for immigration purposes are the same as if they were actually imposed. Under the aggravated felony provision, one year or more suspended results in deportation without the possibility of judicial review of the decision and there is virtually no room for special relief or discretion to avoid removal and the subsequebt 20 year bar on re-applying for admission to the US.

I fail to see how my posts on this board are "highly prejudicial to Dany", as if they would have whit of an effect on how the state of Georgia or a judge or jury would proceed.

If you prefer that everyone ignore the accident and death and simply not look at the facts and the law, then you have come to the wrong place. In case you have failed to notice the media has been doing much more and has been much more judgmental than I in its reporting. Also a number of legal experts have been interviewed and have said much the same thing as I have said in their analysis.

However if you do not like the facts, opinions and conjectures posted here, you can simply ignore them or not read them. Feel free to exist in your comfy little world and continue to see the world through rose-coloured glasses.

Wetcoaster is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 10:57 AM
  #69
gb701
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 490
vCash: 500
[QUOTE=Wetcoaster]On the facts of the case as reported Heatley was driving at 80+ mph in a residential area with a 35 mph speed limit on a winding two lane road when he lost control, swerved, spun out and struck a retaining wall. His high performance sports car was car split in half ejecting his passenger who subsequently died of head injuries. Based on the definition of "reckless driving" in the Georgia Code, this seems to fit within the terms of that definition. The police certainly seem to think so because he has already been charged with that offence.QUOTE]

Since you want to debate this, lets start with the facts:

1. "the facts of the case as reported" - you run your practice out of the newspaper or the internet?

2. "driving at 80+ mph" - according to who? someone saw his speedometer? No - this is, at best, a guess by the officers at the scene that is presumably being analyzed by accident reconstruction experts.

3. "winding two lane road" - how winding? What was the corner like where he was? How wide is two lanes? How much traffic? Road conditions? All of these are relevant considerations.

4. "car was split in half" - proving what? Do you know anything at all about the engineering of a Ferrari? has this happened before? Is it a freak and unpredictable result of how they hit the retaining wall? Is it foreseeable and therefore subject to a higher duty of care?

5. "ejecting his passenger" - was the passenger wearing a seatbelt? Would he have been more likely to survive if he had been?

6. "this seems to fit within the terms of the definition (of reckless driving) - see all the above. Unless you know the answers to these questions, what may "seem" obvious to you is anything but.

7. "the police certainly seem to think so" - as a lawyer, I would have thought your answer would be "so what!". In fairness, the police clearly have reasonable and probably grounds to lay the charges, and have done the right thing in doing so. We will see whether those charges can be proven in Court.

There are also facts and evidence in favour of Heatly that at present only he knows for sure, and that I suspect would be used if this ever goes to trial.

I don't have rose colored or any other glasses on - I am just counselling care at this point given that to my knowledge everything is pure guess work - at least on the facts. I have my own opinion of what will happen but simply choose to keep it to myself for now.

gb701 is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 11:00 AM
  #70
Wetcoaster
Registered User
 
Wetcoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Out There
Posts: 53,235
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gb701
I don't have rose colored or any other glasses on - I am just counselling care at this point given that to my knowledge everything is pure guess work - at least on the facts. I have my own opinion of what will happen but simply choose to keep it to myself for now.
Your choice, I choose not too.

Wetcoaster is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 11:37 AM
  #71
gb701
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 490
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster
Your choice, I choose not too.
Fair enough. I hope you don't practice criminal law.

gb701 is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 12:09 PM
  #72
Sammy*
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,501
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gb701
Fair enough. I hope you don't practice criminal law.
I think even real accomplished criminal lawyers give their opinions & views on things outside ther own personal experience.
Geez, you must be the most boring person on earth, lawyer or otherwise.
Not allowed to opine on anything as you dont have first hand knowledge of anything.
Kind of sad.

Sammy* is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 12:57 PM
  #73
Brooklyn Ranger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn, of course
Posts: 7,510
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gb701
Fair enough. I hope you don't practice criminal law.
My mother practiced criminal law. Believe me, they are do have very strong opinions and are not afraid to voice them. Regardless, most are absolutely committed to providing their clients with the best possible defense, given the facts. And prosecuters are committed to providing the best possible arguments as well. That's how the system works.

Brooklyn Ranger is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 01:02 PM
  #74
Dr Love
Registered User
 
Dr Love's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Location, Location!
Posts: 20,379
vCash: 500
Not debating you, but just clearing up some questions you have...

3. "winding two lane road" - how winding? What was the corner like where he was? How wide is two lanes? How much traffic? Road conditions? All of these are relevant considerations.

As everyone here who has been on Lenox Road before, myself included, will tell you: it's winding, hilly, and very dangerous.

5. "ejecting his passenger" - was the passenger wearing a seatbelt? Would he have been more likely to survive if he had been?

The police said that they couldn't tell, and that it probably didn't matter.

Dr Love is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 07:27 PM
  #75
AJ1982
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 1,812
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to AJ1982
I'm not sure if this has been posted here already, was posted in Atlanta's forum, but I think it's relevant.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sp...snyderbar.html

AJ1982 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:54 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.