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NYR acquires Marcel Hossa for Garth Murray

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Old
10-03-2005, 12:36 PM
  #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
That is not the question that was posed. If Hossa is so good, then why did it take so little to get him? If he was their best pre-season player, then why was no effort made to keep him on the team? If he really was blowing peoples doors off with his performance, then why get rid of him?
Hossa definately has talent. Is he soooo good? Obviously not, but it was a good deal because we only gave up Murray who was gonna be back in the AHL anyway. I think it was worth the gamble, and we used a position of strength (3rd/4th liner) to get a guy who could fill a weakness (potential top 6). Let's not forget, Murray was beaten out by the like of Betts and Hollweg. It was a nice deal, with the potential to be a steal, though like you I'm a tad more realistic. This trade will probably not impact either team in the long run.

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10-03-2005, 12:42 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Barnaby
Hossa definately has talent. Is he soooo good? Obviously not, but it was a good deal because we only gave up Murray who was gonna be back in the AHL anyway. I think it was worth the gamble,
I am not asking that. Nor is this an argument about whether or not it is a good gamble. I am asking a completely different question.

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10-03-2005, 01:10 PM
  #253
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Hossa is gunna be on our 2nd line and Murray was going to Hartford.

You cannot fault this deal. Its not like we traded Murray for Jiri Slegr or something.

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10-03-2005, 01:17 PM
  #254
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there is zero downside to this trade....ZERO!!!

I can't imagine why people are getting their panties in a bunch about it because Murray is a career minor leaguer and he had zero upside IMO and while Hossa has been disappointing there is no comparison between his vs Murray's upside so the deal is an absolute no brainer.

I think it may spell the end for Lundmark which I have zero problem with because although Marcel has also failed to live up to expectations at least Hossa will get a fresh start here and maybe jump start thing where as Jamie just is proving that he will never make it happen here so maybe he too needs a freah start elsewhere as well.

Bottom line is maybe Marcel pans out, maybe he doesn't but the risk is certainly worth the reward as Murray will be lucky to even crack an NHL lineup so this is an absolute no-brainer IMO!!!

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10-03-2005, 01:17 PM
  #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
I am not asking that. Nor is this an argument about whether or not it is a good gamble. I am asking a completely different question.
Sorry, I didn't read the last few pages

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10-03-2005, 01:18 PM
  #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
there is zero downside to this trade....ZERO!!!

I can't imagine why people are getting their panties in a bunch about it because Murray is a career minor leaguer and he had zero upside IMO and while Hossa has been disappointing there is no comparison between his vs Murray's upside so the deal is an absolute no brainer.

I think it may spell the end for Lundmark which I have zero problem with because although Marcel has also failed to live up to expectations at least Hossa will get a fresh start here and maybe jump start thing where as Jamie just is proving that he will never make it happen here so maybe he too needs a freah start elsewhere as well.

Bottom line is maybe Marcel pans out, maybe he doesn't but the risk is certainly worth the reward as Murray will be lucky to even crack an NHL lineup so this is an absolute no-brainer IMO!!!
Agreed.

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10-03-2005, 01:19 PM
  #257
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The only downside...

is watching a guy play second line winger with Rucchin and Straka (or Rucinsky, name your winger) and he doesn't belong whereas perhaps we could've seen someone else there, like Prucha. Not saying that should happen (although I can say that Prucha does belong there right now, but can't with confidence say he belongs there over Hossa since I've seen him once this year, and to be fair, I won't judge him on that one performance (of which I thought little)).

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10-03-2005, 01:28 PM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
there is zero downside to this trade....ZERO!!!

I can't imagine why people are getting their panties in a bunch about it because Murray is a career minor leaguer and he had zero upside IMO and while Hossa has been disappointing there is no comparison between his vs Murray's upside so the deal is an absolute no brainer.
I am not up in arms about this trade, JR. I have not even participated in most of the pi$$ing matches in the precedig pages. I only outlined a few, simple questions that one side of the argument posed and the other side refuses to answer.

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10-03-2005, 01:33 PM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
there is zero downside to this trade....ZERO!!!

I can't imagine why people are getting their panties in a bunch about it because Murray is a career minor leaguer and he had zero upside IMO and while Hossa has been disappointing there is no comparison between his vs Murray's upside so the deal is an absolute no brainer.

I think it may spell the end for Lundmark which I have zero problem with because although Marcel has also failed to live up to expectations at least Hossa will get a fresh start here and maybe jump start thing where as Jamie just is proving that he will never make it happen here so maybe he too needs a freah start elsewhere as well.

Bottom line is maybe Marcel pans out, maybe he doesn't but the risk is certainly worth the reward as Murray will be lucky to even crack an NHL lineup so this is an absolute no-brainer IMO!!!
Doing my best Micheal Corleon...."Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in...."....Honestly, the only people getting their panties in a bunch now (yes, I spewed when I first heard it) are those that find it incredulous that somebody might have the gall to not like the trade and to think Hossa is an inconsistent, soft player and only brings in more of the same soft, 1-dimensional play that will contibute to the Rangers being creamed both physically and on the scoreboard...All it is, is an opinion, and it could very well be wrong...Hossa's a Ranger, so we will find out soon enough...

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10-03-2005, 02:49 PM
  #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
1. If Hossa is so good, why did it take so little to obtain him? If he is so good, are you really believing that there was no spot on any of the 4 lines that the Habs plan to play?
2. Just what kind of a team is the Rangers braintrust contstructing? Finesse and skill is all well and good, but people still throw checks. You still need those players that are not afraid to go into corners and go to the net.
3. Is there an actuall plan to ice a specific type of team, or are the Rangers just taking random players and hoping to create a completed puzzle?
My unasked for amateur opinion as a Habs/Rangers fan are:

1. Hossa is a bust in Montreal. He started out with a bang, then tapered off and fans think he doesn't work hard. Montreal's top 5 is set with Kovy, Koivu, Zednik, Ribeiro and Ryder. The third line is locked in with Bulis and Bonk. There are two spots up for grabs between Perezhogin, Plekanec, Higgins, Latendresse (before they sent him back to junior) and Hossa. All of those guys outworked Hossa.

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10-03-2005, 03:12 PM
  #261
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Well put, Rake...

I think that describes it very well. MTL has better options than Hossa. Either that's because MTL has a great team currently, or that Hossa may not cut it in the NHL, both of which we'll see in the coming months. I would've like to have seen Prucha get the same shot Hossa did coming in. It's still frustrating trying to understand how this organization thinks. Hopefully Hossa will prove MTL wrong, or if not, hopefully Renney's smart enough to evaluate and make the quick decision.

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10-03-2005, 07:16 PM
  #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
I would've like to have seen Prucha get the same shot Hossa did coming in. It's still frustrating trying to understand how this organization thinks.
It's as I said Fletch, Sather and Renney have so little faith in what they have drafted, that, even in a supposed rebuilding year, anything from outside the organization is better that from within.

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10-03-2005, 07:50 PM
  #263
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Hossa has NHL experience...

at a young age and is a former #1 pick...that goes a long way and no Sather draftee fits that bill - combine that with 5 goals in the preseason before coming here and you have a second winger...

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10-03-2005, 11:32 PM
  #264
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I think the only person who is effected by this trade is Lundmark, and was it not just two weeks ago we were talking about how he looked like he was increasingly a long shot to make it?

So essentially the Rangers traded for a player a few months younger than Lundmark who is 23 and they're giving it a shot.

Worst case scenario is it doesn't work and one of the (fill in the blank) other young forwards takes his spot.

This REALLY isn't that complicated or big of a deal. We traded a guy who is a 10 goal scorer at the NHL level. Love him to death but he's one of 10 identical players we have like him.

If Hossa doesn't make it, then we move on. You never know who might work and who won't, but taking a chance on former first round picks at the age of 23 is at least in the right mindset.

We have competition amongst young players, this is a good thing people. We have our own young guys, some young guys who are risks and some young guys who are safe.

The odds are against finding a diamond in the rought, but if the risk is costing a first year pro prospect 20 games for even the slight possibility of finding the next late bloomer (however slim the odds) you have to consider taking it.

No one is getting hurt by this move. If it doesn't work, it's a zero cost move.

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10-03-2005, 11:56 PM
  #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
I think the only person who is effected by this trade is Lundmark, and was it not just two weeks ago we were talking about how he looked like he was increasingly a long shot to make it?

So essentially the Rangers traded for a player a few months younger than Lundmark who is 23 and they're giving it a shot.

Worst case scenario is it doesn't work and one of the (fill in the blank) other young forwards takes his spot.

This REALLY isn't that complicated or big of a deal. We traded a guy who is a 10 goal scorer at the NHL level. Love him to death but he's one of 10 identical players we have like him.

If Hossa doesn't make it, then we move on. You never know who might work and who won't, but taking a chance on former first round picks at the age of 23 is at least in the right mindset.

We have competition amongst young players, this is a good thing people. We have our own young guys, some young guys who are risks and some young guys who are safe.

The odds are against finding a diamond in the rought, but if the risk is costing a first year pro prospect 20 games for even the slight possibility of finding the next late bloomer (however slim the odds) you have to consider taking it.

No one is getting hurt by this move. If it doesn't work, it's a zero cost move.
Exactly.
I'm glad i sat this argument out but jesus i have throw my two cents in. The Rangers didn't trade murray for Steve Heinz here. They are taking a shot with a young player. Some people simply don't like moves because of the guy that is making them.

Somebody name 1 player thats growth will be ******** by this move? Anybody not named lundmark please.

I really hope somebody mentions prucha. The guy earned a spot on the third line and if go by the preseason should get some power play time. Its top 9 minutes folks not top 6. Nobody plays 2 line hockey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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10-04-2005, 08:03 AM
  #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
at a young age and is a former #1 pick...that goes a long way and no Sather draftee fits that bill - combine that with 5 goals in the preseason before coming here and you have a second winger...
Oh, believe me, I hope that you are right. I agree that this is a no-risk move. But I will say that like you, I would have liked to see Prucha get more of a shot. Here's what I will say though. It would be better for Prucha to go to Hartford. His development will take a hit if he is to be a 4th line player.
I admit that I was a big Prucha detractor. I had issues about his size, durability & how his game will translate into the NHL. However, he turned my view completely around by his preseason.
The Hossa move is not a bad one. I DO have my doubts if the former Habs bust will suddenly burst onto the NY scene as a legit top-6 forward. But we shall see.

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10-04-2005, 08:15 AM
  #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Oh, believe me, I hope that you are right. I agree that this is a no-risk move. But I will say that like you, I would have liked to see Prucha get more of a shot. Here's what I will say though. It would be better for Prucha to go to Hartford. His development will take a hit if he is to be a 4th line player.
I admit that I was a big Prucha detractor. I had issues about his size, durability & how his game will translate into the NHL. However, he turned my view completely around by his preseason.
The Hossa move is not a bad one. I DO have my doubts if the former Habs bust will suddenly burst onto the NY scene as a legit top-6 forward. But we shall see.
I think Prucha CAN play on a line with two bigger players that provide energy - i.e., Betts and Ortmeyer. He is a player who can create his own offensive chances, as we saw with his goal on Sunday night. Hossa, OTOH, probably needs to play with other offensive players.

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10-04-2005, 08:24 AM
  #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas
I think Prucha CAN play on a line with two bigger players that provide energy - i.e., Betts and Ortmeyer. He is a player who can create his own offensive chances, as we saw with his goal on Sunday night. Hossa, OTOH, probably needs to play with other offensive players.
I think he is a perfect fit on thoose kind of lines, like you said. He also always played his best hockey with thoose type of players. Sometimes in International hockey he have had problems playing with stars like Jagr. He shows alittle bit too much respect and trys to make difficult passes instead of just gooing to the net.

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10-04-2005, 08:29 AM
  #269
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Correct that...

I mentioned that Hossa had five goals before coming here...on the Devils telecast Davidson menioned he had three goals, two with the Canadiens...

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10-04-2005, 09:30 AM
  #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas
I think Prucha CAN play on a line with two bigger players that provide energy - i.e., Betts and Ortmeyer. He is a player who can create his own offensive chances, as we saw with his goal on Sunday night. Hossa, OTOH, probably needs to play with other offensive players.
I like Prucha, love the way he plays the game, but is this the optimum fit for him and the team here? The team still comes first.... Prucha still loses his check quite alot ---which is fine, he's a rook---and if a line with two of Niemenen, Betts and Orts is to be the main checking and defensive line (often dictated by the line changes of the other team and coach which will try to smother jagr's line), this is not the best place for Prucha from an individual or team standpoint....I say keep all three together....Just my opinion of course....All that being said, with an injury to Niemenen, it looks like Prucha might have the chance to prove me wrong opening night....Hey, crow is good for ya now and then..

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10-04-2005, 03:16 PM
  #271
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The real competition comes down to Lundmark or Hossa. Considering both have a lot to prove and are both long shots, I wouldn't worry too much.

The odds are that neither one makes it, but those odds any better with Murray.

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