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10-06-2003, 05:53 PM
  #1
coyote
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It sickens me

to see all those idiots who wear their hats during the national anthem. The announcer asks for the people to remove their hats before the national anthem. I just would like to know where these people were born and how they were raised. They would not get away with this in the States. You got to feel sorry for the men and women who are giving their lives so these idiots can be free.

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10-06-2003, 06:22 PM
  #2
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Sure glad I take my hat off for the anthem. Whew...

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10-06-2003, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coyote
to see all those idiots who wear their hats during the national anthem. The announcer asks for the people to remove their hats before the national anthem. I just would like to know where these people were born and how they were raised. They would not get away with this in the States. You got to feel sorry for the men and women who are giving their lives so these idiots can be free.

(applauding the post, not the idiots....)

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10-06-2003, 06:57 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coyote
You got to feel sorry for the men and women who are giving their lives so these idiots can be free.
Freedom, eh? Like the freedom to choose one's apparel during a song without being called an idiot?

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10-06-2003, 08:23 PM
  #5
coyote
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilswell
Freedom, eh? Like the freedom to choose one's apparel during a song without being called an idiot?
Like announcer says will you please remove your hats and join Paul in singing our national anthem. Now what part of this request do you not understand.

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10-06-2003, 08:30 PM
  #6
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I remove my hat for the national anthem every time, but what exactly does it signify??respect??

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10-06-2003, 08:31 PM
  #7
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What sparked you to write this thread

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Old
10-06-2003, 08:52 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilswell
Freedom, eh? Like the freedom to choose one's apparel during a song without being called an idiot?

the fact that freedom enters this discussion is hillarious. how do you think you GOT your freedom? just because we as North Americans - (Canadians and Americans) are now born with all this "freedom of..." crap, it doesnt mean that its always been that way! many a life has been lost fighting for this freedom we take for granted, and every time we dishonour the anthem, we're dishonouring the people that fought and died to protect that anthem, that country, and that freedom!

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10-06-2003, 08:55 PM
  #9
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I definitely dont see the connection between not wearing hats and respect, maybe its just me...

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10-06-2003, 09:50 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coyote
Like announcer says will you please remove your hats and join Paul in singing our national anthem. Now what part of this request do you not understand.

The part where the request becomes an order.

I respectfully suggest you find a better reason to vent your anger than invoking the names of those courageous men and women who fight and die for this country. The right to dissent (like NOT removing your hat) is precisely what they so bravely defend.

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10-07-2003, 03:27 AM
  #11
gpearson1968
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Removing Hats

At the local Legion where I grew up, it was a matter of respect that anyone who came in there removed anything that was on their head, men or woman, as a sign of respect for those that had passed on in service to Canada. Problem came when men with turbans were invited to go there. They obviously had spiritual and religous reasons for not removing them. Created quite a stir, and eventually calmer heads prevailed. Especially when it was discovered that these men fought in WWII wearing their turbans instead of helmets.

As for removing head-gear during the anthem, well, I personally prefer that that 'custom' be respected. And, I respect a person's decision not to. Doesn't mean I have to buy him a beer, though.

Cheers,
Geoff.

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10-07-2003, 04:28 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimy
The part where the request becomes an order.

I respectfully suggest you find a better reason to vent your anger than invoking the names of those courageous men and women who fight and die for this country. The right to dissent (like NOT removing your hat) is precisely what they so bravely defend.
When you take your hat off for a National Anthem, you are honouring that country, it's history and it's people.

Now if you choose not to do that fine... but don't expect a big old hug and a how you doing?

If you have the right to dissent, I have the right to get pissed off at your for doing it.

It's a 2 way street.

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10-07-2003, 05:53 AM
  #13
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I actually don't think the national anthems should be played at professional games. International events I can understand but to me I don't really see the point at an NHL or NFL game. I think instead of honoring those that fought for freedom what it does is feed into a sort of rabid nationalism. I mean you have very excitable people getting ready for an exciting event, it's very loud you have people drinking it's a party atmosphere it just seems like a bad mix to me. I think people take these symbols of a country (the flag, anthem) too seriously they are not more important than the actual actions of a country, if someone doesn't take his hat off he is not a bad Cdn or American there are more important things and he very well may have a good reason.

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10-07-2003, 06:24 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpearson1968
As for removing head-gear during the anthem, well, I personally prefer that that 'custom' be respected.
I do it every time. However that is my choice and I like it like that. Heimy has part of it right: if it's an order then our society has utterly let down our troops. They fought for freedom, not pitious conformance.

However there is another layer to this. A show of respect is only worthwhile if it is heartfelt IMO. I mean, maybe you can get someone to say "I love you" at knifepoint, but it doesn't mean as much as if they walk up to you and say it unprompted. I feel the same way about displays of respect and the anthem. Each time you enforce conformance (by announcers saying "please remove your hats", or harsh glares, or whatever), you take away some of the meaning of the gesture. When a vet sees me with my hat off and singing, I want them to know I'm not doing it because I'd be labelled an idiot if I didn't.

If that makes me a bad person in coyote's eyes, too bad.

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Old
10-07-2003, 06:35 AM
  #15
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It simply shows a lack of respect to what ever country's anthem is playing the same. Sure people have the right to not do it, but that action is still disrespectful. I see both sides to a certain degree. The whole take your hat off when going into a school thing - thats a joke. BUT when your talking about a church, some sort of Legion hall, or government building, it's just respect for those institutions. It is completely idiotic not to remove your hat as it is such a tiny sacrifice to show respect for something. The only reason a person wouldn't take their hat off is because they lack respect for the anthem, and in turn the country - and I would love to go around and slap some respect into each one of them. Just the way I was brought up I guess - but people who don't show respect don't deserve respect. Simple.

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10-07-2003, 09:08 AM
  #16
Freakey Styley
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i kinda feel the same way as goldenchild, i don't like it when they play the anthem before a game or when they have like a prayer or something. it's okay if something happened and there's a minute of silence or something but i'm not really into that national anthem thing.

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10-07-2003, 01:29 PM
  #17
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It always annoys me far more that people applaud before the song is over. Regardless of the song, that's just rude.

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10-07-2003, 03:27 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrhockey123
the fact that freedom enters this discussion is hillarious. how do you think you GOT your freedom? just because we as North Americans - (Canadians and Americans) are now born with all this "freedom of..." crap, it doesnt mean that its always been that way! many a life has been lost fighting for this freedom we take for granted, and every time we dishonour the anthem, we're dishonouring the people that fought and died to protect that anthem, that country, and that freedom!
enough said...

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Old
10-07-2003, 05:12 PM
  #19
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i will wear whatever i want, my choice, i don't see how respect=hats off, i will even wear a big afro wig i wouldn't care, standing is enough for respect to me

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10-07-2003, 05:25 PM
  #20
Alfie#11
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It's a question of etiquette.

A man doesn't wear a hat indoors. He shouldn't wear a hat at a hockey game, to work, at a restaurant, at church etc. When you enter a building, as a man, the hat comes off. It's considered rude not to do so.

That people have to be asked to do so is sad. It's just like other dress standards, people don't seem to care anymore.

It's not about freedom, it's about manners. You have them or you don't. It's respectfull to remove one's hat so you do so.

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10-07-2003, 05:30 PM
  #21
thome_26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HemskyFreak83
i will wear whatever i want, my choice, i don't see how respect=hats off, i will even wear a big afro wig i wouldn't care, standing is enough for respect to me
not caring is being disrespectful. It's not up to individuals to decide what respect is, but up to society - and it has been very clear for a long, long, long time about the hat business. You have all the freedom in the world to "wear whatever". The simple fact is that you would then be considered disrespectful. Or atleast by me, and a great majority of society. The problem is there are to many of these gothic/Punk (don't take offense to this as there are many Gothic and Punk people that have more respect for things then the average joe schmoe. I hate to generalize, but I'm going to) that lack propriety and respect, and the "I don't care what other people think" is becoming a far to common mind set.

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10-07-2003, 05:38 PM
  #22
Alfie#11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thome_26
not caring is being disrespectful. It's not up to individuals to decide what respect is, but up to society - and it has been very clear for a long, long, long time about the hat business. You have all the freedom in the world to "wear whatever". The simple fact is that you would then be considered disrespectful. Or atleast by me, and a great majority of society. The problem is there are to many of these gothic/Punk (don't take offense to this as there are many Gothic and Punk people that have more respect for things then the average joe schmoe. I hate to generalize, but I'm going to) that lack propriety and respect, and the "I don't care what other people think" is becoming a far to common mind set.
To be fair, hip hop kids and fat middle aged men wear hats inappropriately as well. Slobs abound these days.

You are right about the society angle though. Manners and etiquette are what help people get along together, to have a healthy society. The whole "I don't care" attitude is a lack of respect for others. While a lot of people adopt this attitude toward others, they sure do get offended when someone does something rude to them. Plus, it's something small. This isn't about some important cultural, religious or political dissent. It's just immature selfishness - thumbing your nose at others.

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Old
10-07-2003, 05:45 PM
  #23
thome_26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfie#11
To be fair, hip hop kids and fat middle aged men wear hats inappropriately as well. Slobs abound these days.
Yes, very true, I should have taken more time and made sure to emphasize that point, thank you for pointing it out - I guess I just picked the "type" (I know, that isn't nice either, lol) people that would most commenly portray what I was takling about.
P.S.
I know this is sorta off topic, but a thing I've always found VERY ironic is how you will see some people (excuse this again) usually goths, or punks or something like that with swastikas on them some where. They are the exact opposite of what that sign gained it's popularity for. It was a simple of order and law - those are things that many of them claim to resist/defy..... I can't believe for a second that I'm posting this on a hockey boards

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10-07-2003, 05:55 PM
  #24
Alfie#11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thome_26
P.S.
I know this is sorta off topic, but a thing I've always found VERY ironic is how you will see some people (excuse this again) usually goths, or punks or something like that with swastikas on them some where. They are the exact opposite of what that sign gained it's popularity for. It was a simple of order and law - those are things that many of them claim to resist/defy..... I can't believe for a second that I'm posting this on a hockey boards
The punk angle - it goes back to the London Punk scene (Pistols, the Damned etc) who used the swastika as a symbol to shock. Not a lot of thought there but rather just wanting to offend. In the 70s there would have been a lot of men and women who would have lived through WW2 and the bombing of London and it would have upset them greatly.

Today I imagine it's nothing more than fashion.

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