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Old
10-09-2005, 03:31 AM
  #76
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Ok, I gotta give you more credit. I didn't think you could do this without bias and properly. Good work.

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Old
10-09-2005, 04:06 AM
  #77
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That backcheck on the stoll breakaway deserves a +5. If thats a +4 what is a +5?

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Old
10-09-2005, 04:21 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parabola
That backcheck on the stoll breakaway deserves a +5. If thats a +4 what is a +5?
End to end shorthanded goal?

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Old
10-09-2005, 04:25 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parabola
That backcheck on the stoll breakaway deserves a +5. If thats a +4 what is a +5?
An end-to-end rush, splits two d-men, fakes out the goalie and scores top-shelf... THAT would be a +5. If he did it short-handed, I might even give him a bonus point.

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Old
10-09-2005, 04:30 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
You've got way too much time on your hands.

In any case, since this "rating" is purely subjective, it's rather pointless. Anyway, have fun if this is what floats your boat!
That's funny... coming from someone with 7,200 posts. I probably spend less time with this rating than most people do reading and posting other messages on here.

I'm also sorry to hear that you think my efforts are pointless. I guess you won't be following it then.

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Old
10-09-2005, 04:31 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dana Murzyn
Count Dana Murzyn among your supporters, Beaver. (And what a comforting feeling that must give you!)

Isnít this precisely what this board is for? Obsessive, detailed study and discussion of all things Canuck, complete with unbridled subjectivity, strained logic, and blinding bias?

YES!

You keep this thread up and I guarantee everyone - even the naysayers - will continue to visit it.
Thank you Dana Murzyn!!! Well said! And sorry for calling you a pylon... repeatedly.

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Old
10-09-2005, 04:32 AM
  #82
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LMAO.. this was probably the worst defensive game I've ever seen him play.. this report is rigged..

+16 hahaha come on..

I don't know if you guys even watched the game.. anyone that knows hockey and watched the game knows Jovo was horrible.

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Old
10-09-2005, 04:37 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddzilla44
I thought that goal was 75% Allens fault. Jovo had already moved over to the side boards to battle for the puck leaving Allen in front, as the puck was moving down the boards Allen left his position to try and find the puck and he was the one who left Ballard open. I don't think it was Jovo's fault truthfully, miscommuncation on Jovo and Allens part however Allen should have stayed in the slot.
Thank you toddzilla. I've reviewed the tape. While I agree with you that Allen should share the blame, if not most of it, I still think Jovo was selfishly chasing the puck, when he should have stayed on his own side. I'm going to keep the -4 rating for that play.

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Old
10-09-2005, 04:40 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leck85
LMAO.. this was probably the worst defensive game I've ever seen him play.. this report is rigged..

+16 hahaha come on..

I don't know if you guys even watched the game.. anyone that knows hockey and watched the game knows Jovo was horrible.

Examples please.

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Old
10-09-2005, 04:42 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaturdayNight Beaver
An end-to-end rush, splits two d-men, fakes out the goalie and scores top-shelf... THAT would be a +5. If he did it short-handed, I might even give him a bonus point.

Thats quite a gap.

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Old
10-09-2005, 04:45 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Ryan
Couple other things that need to be considered:

Environment: Does a poor play in OT hurt his rating more than a poor play in the first period?

Post-play actions: Does it matter whether his mistake results in a goal or not? In other words, does Jovo still get a -4 for his poor checking on Ballard if Ballards shot hits the post?
Excellent questions.

ENVIRONMENT: No, a poor play in OT will have the same rating as a poor play in the first period. I expect the same effort throughout the game. The first minute is just as important as the last, in my opinion.

POST-PLAY: Yes, this WILL have bearing on the rating. Jovo would not have gotten a -4 if Ballard hit the post. He probably would have got a -2.

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Old
10-09-2005, 04:46 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parabola
Thats quite a gap.
What do you mean?

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Old
10-09-2005, 04:47 AM
  #88
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Examples.. sorry I cant describe 95% of his ice time out there.. He had a good hit, ummmmmmmmmmm....... ummmmmmmm........ uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... yea that was the only good thing I'd say he did.

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Old
10-09-2005, 04:49 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by korczyk
it'd probably be more accurate if everyone here kept tally following the same "criteria" (if subjective good or bad plays can even be considered criteria) ... and then we took some sort of average...

unfortunately the rest of us have lives..

even then, no conclusion could be made about whether Jovo is a good or bad defenseman, because you're not using your system on any other players, as has been drilled through this thread already

as it stands now, this little experiment is complete bollocks, I mean, how can you carry out something like this and think people will actually take it into consideration if in the first post you already say you hate the man's game.

this biased thing your running here is pointless, and a waste of time and bandwidth, and hell, even I think Jovo's probably a bit overrated.
This whole thing takes about 2 hours of my time after each game, so there's plenty of time left over to "have a life".

"A waste of time and bandwidth"??? I'm very sorry. Please advise how much bandwidth of yours I've wasted and I'll gladly reimburse you. But only up to today... everytime you read this thread in the future, it will be on YOUR dime.

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Old
10-09-2005, 04:52 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaturdayNight Beaver
What do you mean?

An end-to-end rush, splits two d-men, fakes out the goalie and scores top-shelf... THAT would be a +5. If he did it short-handed, I might even give him a bonus point.

(ive never seen a defensemen do this)


But when he makes a backcheck on a breakaway that could have saved the game (if not for that last minute powerplay) its +4.


I think the fact that +5 and +4 is really only one point, that there shouldnt be that big of a gap between how good of a play you have to make (as a defensemen) to get +5. Id discribe your +5 play more of a +6 play

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Old
10-09-2005, 04:52 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leck85
I don't know if you guys even watched the game.. anyone that knows hockey and watched the game knows Jovo was horrible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by leck85
Examples.. sorry I cant describe 95% of his ice time out there.. He had a good hit, ummmmmmmmmmm....... ummmmmmmm........ uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... yea that was the only good thing I'd say he did.

Alrighty then. Obviously YOU paid attention to the game. I'll tell you what. Read my play-by-play analysis and tell me which ones I got wrong.

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Old
10-09-2005, 04:53 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parabola
An end-to-end rush, splits two d-men, fakes out the goalie and scores top-shelf... THAT would be a +5. If he did it short-handed, I might even give him a bonus point.

(ive never seen a defensemen do this)


But when he makes a backcheck on a breakaway that could have saved the game (if not for that last minute powerplay) its +4.


I think the fact that +5 and +4 is really only one point, that there shouldnt be that big of a gap between how good of a play you have to make (as a defensemen) to get +5. Id discribe your +5 play more of a +6 play
Okay. Deal. +6 it is. But the backcheck still isn't +5 in my books. It was SUPERB... but I gotta make +5 harder than that to earn. I'll tell you what... a howitzer from the point that blows past the goalie will be a +5.

By the way... the time of the game and the current score does not affect the rating. He'd get a +4 on that play whether they were up by one goal or down by 5.

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Old
10-09-2005, 04:58 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaturdayNight Beaver
Okay. Deal. +6 it is. But the backcheck still isn't +5 in my books. It was SUPERB... but I gotta make +5 harder than that to earn.
makes since.
Quote:
I'll tell you what... a howitzer from the point that blows past the goalie will be a +5.
Defensively what would be a +5?

Quote:
By the way... the time of the game and the current score does not affect the rating. He'd get a +4 on that play whether they were up by one goal or down by 5
I was just gonna ask about that too. Makes sense. I look forward to the next game

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Old
10-09-2005, 05:03 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parabola
Defensively what would be a +5?
An open-ice hit on Lindros or Yashin that knocked either one out for the rest of the year. And a bonus point if he spits on them while they're on the ground.

Okay... seriously... good question... I'll have to think about it. Maybe that backcheck DID deserve a +5. I'll watch it again tomorrow.

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Old
10-09-2005, 07:07 AM
  #95
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I don't see how anyone can think this guys is less than 100% awesome. Its hilarious. Sure its bizarre and obsessive, and in the long run pretty useless, but still. Good work Beaver.

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Old
10-09-2005, 12:58 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfluous U
I don't see how anyone can think this guys is less than 100% awesome. Its hilarious. Sure its bizarre and obsessive, and in the long run pretty useless, but still. Good work Beaver.
Umm... Thanks... I think!

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Old
10-09-2005, 01:04 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leck85
Examples.. sorry I cant describe 95% of his ice time out there.. He had a good hit, ummmmmmmmmmm....... ummmmmmmm........ uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... yea that was the only good thing I'd say he did.
Clueless... what game were you watching? Obviously not the Canucks.

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Old
10-09-2005, 02:51 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Examples.. sorry I cant describe 95% of his ice time out there.. He had a good hit, ummmmmmmmmmm....... ummmmmmmm........ uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... yea that was the only good thing I'd say he did.
You obviously like many people out there just hate Jovo, for his dumb giveaways, however i think thats exactly what the beaver is out to prove. I for one love the idea becasue i am a huge Jovo supporter and people always call me an idiot, now i have stats to prove hes way better than they think. If Jovo continues to play like he did last night and our other players actually show up, Norris, Conne Smythe and Stanley our coming home. But realistically its way too early in the season to say "I Told You So" near christmas well have a good read on him, especially with this rating. Thanks Beaver.

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Old
10-09-2005, 04:35 PM
  #99
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Great thread, SNB. Looking forward to following this through the year.

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Old
10-09-2005, 04:55 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaturdayNight Beaver
That is why I will try to accurately describe each play. I would invite anyone who disagrees with any given rating to point it out. I will then review the game tape and adjust it accordingly.
But you've already said that shifts where positives and negatives combine to form a zero (in your opinion) are omitted from your report. And obviously shifts where nothing good nor bad (again, in your opinion) happens are also omitted.

What if someone disagrees with those? It'd be pretty hard to do, yes?

This is very subjective, and since it's done by someone who has an admitted bias against Jovanovski, I'm highly skeptical of its worth.

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