HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The Jovo-NoNo Rating

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-09-2005, 06:49 PM
  #101
SaturdayNight Beaver*
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 268
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor No
But you've already said that shifts where positives and negatives combine to form a zero (in your opinion) are omitted from your report. And obviously shifts where nothing good nor bad (again, in your opinion) happens are also omitted.

What if someone disagrees with those? It'd be pretty hard to do, yes?

This is very subjective, and since it's done by someone who has an admitted bias against Jovanovski, I'm highly skeptical of its worth.
No, you misunderstood me. I said "Shifts that scored an even rating are not listed, UNLESS he got a minus AND a plus rating on the same shift to equal 0."

So in other words, if he has a shift where he makes a good play AND a bad play, I WILL INDEED mention both plays.

But yes, I'm NOT going to list every shift where he doesn't do anything. So if you disagree with a "nothing shift", then I suppose you're right... there's nothing you can do about it. And if that makes my efforts worthless in your mind... oh well... doesn't bother me. I'm gonna continue. It's up to you whether you want to continue reading or not.

SaturdayNight Beaver* is offline  
Old
10-10-2005, 06:20 AM
  #102
Ironchef Chris Wok*
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Red Sox Nation
Country: Taiwan
Posts: 12,538
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Ironchef Chris Wok*
I heart data collection.

I think you should simplify it though.

Here's my idea:

We should have the "Ed Jovanovski Giveaway Counter"

And to be fair, we shoudl keep track of giveaways by other Canuck defenseman, and then at the end of the season, we can compare their giveaway numbers after making adjustments for minutse played and situation (shorthnaded, etc.)

Ironchef Chris Wok* is offline  
Old
10-10-2005, 11:40 AM
  #103
Trebek
Mod Supervisor
 
Trebek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,945
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaturdayNight Beaver
It's up to you whether you want to continue reading or not.
Oh, I'll read it. I love this sorta stuff.

Trebek is offline  
Old
10-10-2005, 10:51 PM
  #104
SaturdayNight Beaver*
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 268
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironchef Chris Wok
I heart data collection.

I think you should simplify it though.

Here's my idea:

We should have the "Ed Jovanovski Giveaway Counter"

And to be fair, we shoudl keep track of giveaways by other Canuck defenseman, and then at the end of the season, we can compare their giveaway numbers after making adjustments for minutse played and situation (shorthnaded, etc.)
Hmmm.... not a bad idea. However... if I just keep pointing out all his giveaways, I'm going to get blasted for not pointing out all the good things he does too. I'm already accused of being too biased, which I hope will change as people realize I'm giving him credit for everything he does, good and bad.

However, you're right, keeping track of ALL Canuck defencemen's giveaways might solve that problem. Although, I've invested so much effort into this already, I might as well keep going. But feel free to add your "giveaway counter" to this thread. It would be most welcomed.

SaturdayNight Beaver* is offline  
Old
10-10-2005, 10:57 PM
  #105
kmad
Riot Survivor
 
kmad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 33,259
vCash: 500
It should be giveaways per minute, because Jovanovski plays more than any other Canuck defenseman

kmad is offline  
Old
10-10-2005, 11:07 PM
  #106
ahmon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,074
vCash: 500
you are priceless beaver, if you can keep up for the whole season... all the power to you

ahmon is online now  
Old
10-10-2005, 11:08 PM
  #107
Thalia
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Scotland
Posts: 4,792
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmad
It should be giveaways per minute, because Jovanovski plays more than any other Canuck defenseman
Update your sig Mr. K.

Thalia is offline  
Old
10-10-2005, 11:12 PM
  #108
Rotang
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 2,362
vCash: 500
I hope all this negativity doesn't get discouraging - some people do appreciate the time and effort you are putting into this.

It's a refreshing change from the norm on these boards. It gives me something to look forward to. Keep up the good work!

Rotang is offline  
Old
10-11-2005, 12:04 AM
  #109
SaturdayNight Beaver*
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 268
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thadiggitystank
I hope all this negativity doesn't get discouraging - some people do appreciate the time and effort you are putting into this.

It's a refreshing change from the norm on these boards. It gives me something to look forward to. Keep up the good work!
Thanks DiggityStank! (like your name!).

Just taking a break from analyzing the Detroit game. Report will be up before the end of the night.

SaturdayNight Beaver* is offline  
Old
10-11-2005, 01:04 AM
  #110
parabola
Global Moderator
BOlieve dat
 
parabola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: ಠ_ಠ
Posts: 44,024
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaturdayNight Beaver
Thanks DiggityStank! (like your name!).

Just taking a break from analyzing the Detroit game. Report will be up before the end of the night.

Im actually looking forward to this report

parabola is offline  
Old
10-11-2005, 01:07 AM
  #111
SaturdayNight Beaver*
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 268
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by parabola
Im actually looking forward to this report
It's done... just gotta type it up... gimme 20 minutes. In the meantime, how do YOU think Jovo played tonight? Take a guess at what his Jovo-NoNo Rating will be. Hmm... this could add a fun element to this thread. I might even come up with prizes to the closest guess.

SaturdayNight Beaver* is offline  
Old
10-11-2005, 01:23 AM
  #112
The Bob Cole
Ohhhh Baby.
 
The Bob Cole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Centre Ice
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,691
vCash: 500
He'll end up being +2 I think.

The Bob Cole is offline  
Old
10-11-2005, 01:27 AM
  #113
SaturdayNight Beaver*
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 268
vCash: 500
JOVO-NONO RATING
GAME 3 - AT DETROIT RED WINGS


Well, I'd say that was a mediocre game for Jovo. A couple good plays and a couple errors. He wasn't a factor in any goals, for or against.

Here are his play-by-play marks:

P1-S01 PP +1 Blocked shot (Draper - broke stick on shot)
P1-S01 PP -1 Slap-pass (Morrison) too hard to handle, resulting in turnover in offensive zone and puck cleared (Lidstrom).
P1-S01 PP -1 Giveaway at Canucks blueline (Draper?). Bailed out (by Morrison).
P1-S05 PP +1 Good speed up the middle, drawing a penalty (Draper).
P1-S06 SH +1 Blocked shot (Lidstrom) while battling (Lang) infront of net.
P1-S07 ES -1 Giveaway (Draper) along the boards in defensive zone.
P1-S07 ES -1 Dropped down, but failed to block pass (Draper to Rivers), resulting in a scoring opportunity.
P1-S08 ES -2 Bad giveaway (Cleary) in defensive zone. Recovered (by Morrison).
P1-S09 SH +3 Nice blocked pass (Zetterberg to Datsyuk), shorthanded on a 2-on-1, to take away a scoring opportunity.

P2-S03 ES +0 Incomplete pass (Bertuzzi), resulting in turnover. Bertuzzi's fault.
P2-S03 ES +1 Nice lead pass (D.Sedin) out of defensive zone while under pressure.
P2-S06 ES +2 Nice hit (Cleary) on side board in defensive zone to create turnover.
P2-S07 ES -3 Undressed (Zetterberg) in defensive zone, allowing man to skate in alone on net. Bailed out by Morrison, who stripped Zetterberg from behind.

P3-S01 ES -2 Giveaway on the side boards in defensive zone, resulting in a wrap-around shot (Zetterberg).
P3-S05 ES +1 Good effort to keep man (Lang) to the outside lane, resulting in a weak shot, easily handled by Auld.
P3-S09 ES +1 Nice snap-shot on net from the point.
P3-S11 ES +1 Blocked a backhander (Schneider), preventing the puck from getting to the front of the net.

PERIOD 1: EVEN
PERIOD 2: EVEN
PERIOD 3: +1

GAME RATING: +1



Shifts that scored an "even" rating are usually not listed, unless he got a minus AND a plus rating on the same shift to equal 0.

Guide:
P=Period
S=Shift
ES=Even Strength
PP=Power Play
PK=Penalty Kill
4/4=Four-on-Four

SaturdayNight Beaver* is offline  
Old
10-11-2005, 01:29 AM
  #114
SopelFan*
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Richard Park
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,422
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to SopelFan*
He still played almost half the game and we won, there for I'm happy.

SopelFan* is offline  
Old
10-11-2005, 01:30 AM
  #115
SaturdayNight Beaver*
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 268
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by toddzilla44
He'll end up being +2 I think.
Good guess! Very close! You win the prize. Just don't ask me what it is.

SaturdayNight Beaver* is offline  
Old
10-11-2005, 01:32 AM
  #116
SaturdayNight Beaver*
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 268
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SopelFan
He still played almost half the game and we won, there for I'm happy.
Yup. Can't argue with that.

SaturdayNight Beaver* is offline  
Old
10-11-2005, 01:45 AM
  #117
kmad
Riot Survivor
 
kmad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 33,259
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaturdayNight Beaver
Good guess! Very close! You win the prize. Just don't ask me what it is.
I made one
Attached Images
File Type: jpg prize.JPG‎ (5.9 KB, 20 views)

kmad is offline  
Old
10-11-2005, 01:50 AM
  #118
SaturdayNight Beaver*
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 268
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmad
I made one

Good job!!! You get second prize!!! (What is it?)

SaturdayNight Beaver* is offline  
Old
10-11-2005, 02:10 AM
  #119
parabola
Global Moderator
BOlieve dat
 
parabola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: ಠ_ಠ
Posts: 44,024
vCash: 500
kmad has a tiara... ask him for a pic

parabola is offline  
Old
10-11-2005, 03:58 AM
  #120
Blane Youngblood
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,469
vCash: 500
I kind of like this Jovo-NoNo thing, is there any chance we can do Salo and Ohlund as well? This thing needs a comparable.

Blane Youngblood is offline  
Old
10-11-2005, 07:31 AM
  #121
kmad
Riot Survivor
 
kmad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 33,259
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaturdayNight Beaver
Good job!!! You get second prize!!! (What is it?)
I'm pretty sure 2nd prize is permanent HF administrator status

kmad is offline  
Old
10-11-2005, 08:08 AM
  #122
BAuldie
Registered User
 
BAuldie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Nanaimo, B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,880
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to BAuldie Send a message via MSN to BAuldie
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmad
I'm pretty sure 2nd prize is permanent HF administrator status
Thank god the first losers don't get prizes then

BAuldie is offline  
Old
10-11-2005, 02:51 PM
  #123
Waveburner
RIP Luc
 
Waveburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In Morrison's house.
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,490
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaturdayNight Beaver
Excellent questions.

POST-PLAY: Yes, this WILL have bearing on the rating. Jovo would not have gotten a -4 if Ballard hit the post. He probably would have got a -2.
Another major reason this rating will never accomplish what you hope. How can it possibly reflect Jovo's rating whether or not Cloutier makes a big save or the guy hits the post. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Jovanovski. I've also noticed that with a lot of your subjective ranking of plays, you seem to make adjustments for other players making good plays to cover for Jovo. How is that reflective on Jovo? There are so many ways in which this system is horrendously flawed. By all means keep it up if you wish, as some posters actually seem to see actual value in your system.

It will never, EVER prove or disprove your original hypothesis however.

Waveburner is offline  
Old
10-11-2005, 02:53 PM
  #124
SaturdayNight Beaver*
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 268
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jin
I kind of like this Jovo-NoNo thing, is there any chance we can do Salo and Ohlund as well? This thing needs a comparable.
Any volunteers???

SaturdayNight Beaver* is offline  
Old
10-11-2005, 03:41 PM
  #125
SaturdayNight Beaver*
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 268
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waveburner
Another major reason this rating will never accomplish what you hope. How can it possibly reflect Jovo's rating whether or not Cloutier makes a big save or the guy hits the post. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Jovanovski. I've also noticed that with a lot of your subjective ranking of plays, you seem to make adjustments for other players making good plays to cover for Jovo. How is that reflective on Jovo? There are so many ways in which this system is horrendously flawed. By all means keep it up if you wish, as some posters actually seem to see actual value in your system.

It will never, EVER prove or disprove your original hypothesis however.
You make valid points. The Jovo-NoNo rating is not perfect, I agree. But I'd have to argue against "horrendously flawed".

While the actions of Jovo's teammates certainly affect Jovo's minus ratings, you have to keep in mind that the actions of the opposing team also affect his plus ratings. For example, if Jovo makes a spectacular offensive play and scores a goal, he would get more points than if he make the SAME play, but the goalie made an amazing save. So it should all balance out.

At the end of the day, THE END RESULT is what matters most. Did the actions of Jovo contribute to a goal being scored? If the answer is yes, then he will be rated accordingly. If Morrision came back and bailed him out, preventing a scoring opportunity, then Jovo won't be penalized as hard. While this is an individual rating, there's no arguing that team play will have some affect on the rating.

Like someone previously posted... this rating is not going to be sent to Nonis for contract negotiations. And it's probably not going to be posted in the NHL.com stats section.

Although, I should make one point... the NHL keeps track of giveaways, takeaways, blocked shots, missed shots and hits. And those stats ARE used in contract negotiations. (There weren't last year, but they are again this year). After following Jovo's play-by-play for 3 games, I have come to realize that those stats ARE HORRENDOUSLY FLAWED. They are SO inaccurate, it's not even funny. I'm going to create a seperate post about that.

SaturdayNight Beaver* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:48 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.