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Old
10-06-2005, 09:39 AM
  #1
triggrman
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Fourth Line

Last nights 4th line wasn't very productive. I fact Tootoo was the only one that actually looked like an NHL player and actually he's did manage to create a few scoring chances only to have his linemates blow the chances. As a group though, they were not physical, Tootoo again had the only hit I remember on that line. Heck our first unit had more hits.

Anyway, we need to upgrade this line, maybe bring up Upshall to play with Tootoo and Nichol.

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10-06-2005, 11:34 AM
  #2
C-J Carlson
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Well, Barry Trotz didn't think the team would need as much of a physical presence against a team like San Jose. That's why he scratched Darcy Hordichuk and Jeremy Stevenson. I think he also wanted to see a little more of what Simon Gamache and Jordin Tootoo could do. Don't worry. When we do play other more physical teams, we'll see a lot more physicality from the fourth line with the return of Scott Nichol, and Hordichuk and/or Stevenson and/or Tootoo in the line-up. As for offensive threats from that line, Stevenson is an untapped source of extra goals.

Anyhoo...

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10-06-2005, 11:55 AM
  #3
triggrman
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I'm not as high on Stevenson as you are. In the preseason he looked slow and out of place to me and took way to many minors for interference at bad times.

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10-06-2005, 12:07 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman
I'm not as high on Stevenson as you are. In the preseason he looked slow and out of place to me and took way to many minors for interference at bad times.

and i'm not really high on tootoo. if he's not making hits(which he wasn't) last night, then his worth is pretty much zero. it's time to face the facts...he's a one dimensional player, and if he's not contributing in an agitating role...then he's not contributing. who knows, maybe trotz is trying to break him of being nothing but a "big hitter," or maybe he was scared about penalties...but i saw little to be encouraged by from either gamache or tootoo last night.

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10-06-2005, 12:29 PM
  #5
lstcyr
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I understand why he's there considering who we have on the other lines but having Gamache on the fourth line is a waste. He's out of place there and won't succeed. Unfortunately, unless someone gets hurt, he may not have a chance to stick.

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10-06-2005, 12:30 PM
  #6
triggrman
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Disagree, he created a few turnovers last night, hustle and made a few plays and was by far better than either of his linemates.

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10-06-2005, 12:34 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman
Disagree, he created a few turnovers last night, hustle and made a few plays and was by far better than either of his linemates.

but you have to admit you're biased. you've wanted tootoo on the team since before preseason, and i'll be honest...so did i....but aside from the second atlanta game he hasn't been jordin tootoo. also, i thought fiddler was considerably better last night than either gamache or tootoo.

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10-06-2005, 12:36 PM
  #8
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I can't hate on Toots for last night, in his less than 6 minutes of play he did have a hit, blocked a shot and used his speed to create a couple scoring chances. One of which he sent a great pass from behind the net an open Fiddler who whiffed on the one timer.

I thought Eaton was off last night..he muffed a few easy clearing chances..one of which ended up being the 2nd goal.

Other than that, hard to find rough spots and that is a great thing.

As for a 4th line, with the way the flow of that game was last night, and the large offensive zones and tag up icing there was long stretches without a whistle. Makes that line even more essential to bring some energy. The Sharks are a disciplined team, may take a little out of their effectiveness as well.

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10-06-2005, 12:49 PM
  #9
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San Jose was a tough team to open with on many levels, but it was especially tough with that 4th line. With a good change, San Jose can really exploit that kind of line. Anaheim and Colorado will not be much easier.

I think Nichol will eventually be an upgrade over Fiddler. I think we'll see Hordichuk scratched against teams like San Jose and he'll obviously be on the roster regardless. Stevenson is certainly no all star, but he's better at that 4th line role on the NHL level than Gamache right now, imo. When he's healed, that will be an upgrade.

As much as I wouldn't mind seeing Tootoo sent down when everyone is healthy, he had arguably one of his best plays (with the puck) on the pass out from behind the net. Either Fiddler wasn't expecting that from Toots or he must have been checking out the icegirls, because he had a set up in the slot had he anticipated it better. I still think there's a hint of hesitation to Tootoo's game now that Trotz has called him out, which, as nmk noted, is deadly for him at this point. Nichol isn't as powerful as tootoo, but he's a pest and can fill that role with more overall skill. Maybe if we didn't have a pest/agitator on that line, Tootoo would be more needed for that role.

If they send down Tootoo and bring up Upshall, it would increase our versatility against more skilled, less physical teams. you could have Nichol-Upshall-Stevenson against teams like San Jose or Detroit. You could go Nichol-Hordy-Stevenson against the likes of Calgary and Columbus. And when there is an injury, Upshall (assuming the injury isn't to him...) is someone we can plug in on the third line without having to call anyone up. While it'd be nice to give Upshall some quality minutes in Milwaukee, maybe he'd get more out of being exposed to our locker room and being influenced by Kariya and Walker.

of course, there's always Vladdy in November if he's healed and cheap...

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10-06-2005, 12:50 PM
  #10
triggrman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
but you have to admit you're biased. you've wanted tootoo on the team since before preseason, and i'll be honest...so did i....but aside from the second atlanta game he hasn't been jordin tootoo. also, i thought fiddler was considerably better last night than either gamache or tootoo.
I want Tootoo there over Stevenson, yes, and I love his physical play which was absent last night, but so was Hartnell's, Hall's and Walker's. But to say Tootoo had a bad game is wrong. I don't know what TV showed but Tootoo was the best player on that line last night.

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10-06-2005, 01:02 PM
  #11
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Let me add Gamache to the list of players I'd rank Tootoo over.

I'd take Upshall and Radulov over all of these though. I would have loved for him to be there in Gamache's place last night.

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10-06-2005, 01:28 PM
  #12
Enoch
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I am glad this thread was started because last night we saw an undefined line that had no idea what its role was. It wasn't energy, it wasn't shutdown, it wasn't scoring.......it was.....crap. All had weaknesses on the ice - Gamache blew an easy clear that cost us a goal, Fiddler blew a perfect setup pass from Tootoo that was as high a percentage of a shot as your going to get in this league, and Tootoo looks.....hesitant. He wasn't the same player last night as last year, and it is because he can't go out making runs at people (even if they have the puck).

Upshall is better than all three of them.....Its too bad we have him down in Milwuakee. This would have been a perfect game to utilize him tonight.

We have to do something with that line, either make it a trapping oppurtunist line or a physical energy line......but not leave it so undefined.

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10-06-2005, 01:31 PM
  #13
triggrman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
I am glad this thread was started because last night we saw an undefined line that had no idea what its role was. It wasn't energy, it wasn't shutdown, it wasn't scoring.......it was.....crap. All had weaknesses on the ice - Gamache blew an easy clear that cost us a goal, Fiddler blew a perfect setup pass from Tootoo that was as high a percentage of a shot as your going to get in this league, and Tootoo looks.....hesitant. He wasn't the same player last night as last year, and it is because he can't go out making runs at people (even if they have the puck).

Upshall is better than all three of them.....Its too bad we have him down in Milwuakee. This would have been a perfect game to utilize him tonight.

We have to do something with that line, either make it a trapping oppurtunist line or a physical energy line......but not leave it so undefined.
This I agree with, and I guess it's what I'm getting at....

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10-06-2005, 03:26 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lstcyr
I understand why he's there considering who we have on the other lines but having Gamache on the fourth line is a waste. He's out of place there and won't succeed. Unfortunately, unless someone gets hurt, he may not have a chance to stick.
I do remember at one point (and I'm not sure how long it lasted, may have been in between line switches) but Gamache was out there with Legwand and Karyia. Didn't see it but once, maybe it was by design, or like I mentioned just possibly got caught in to deep on a line change and didn't want to go off yet.

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10-06-2005, 04:14 PM
  #15
lstcyr
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You are correct but it was only the one time I think.

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10-06-2005, 04:43 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lstcyr
You are correct but it was only the one time I think.
It was after a power play I believe when Erat got caught out on a long shift.

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10-06-2005, 04:57 PM
  #17
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Isn't it nice to be debating the 4th line, with no obvious porblems on the other 3 lines? There was a day when these guys might have been our second line!

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10-06-2005, 05:28 PM
  #18
triggrman
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It is great when the only complaints after playing one of the better teams in the league is what can we do to boost the 4th line and why does Smokey keep wearing a tie to the games. I mean I wear a tie everyday to work but I'n not wearing it to the games.

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10-06-2005, 06:35 PM
  #19
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I'm not sure what the function of a fourth line ought to be in todays atmosphere. I don't even think Trotz knows. In fact he's said as much about the role of a fourth line. TooToo did not look like the player from last year. perhaps that is becasue he has been asked to do or learn something else. I don't know. But to assert that heand Gamache ought to be sent down for Upshaw is not the thing to do!

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10-06-2005, 09:06 PM
  #20
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I agree it is nice debating our fourth line. I always thought we had a good team without a first line, now we have two good scoring lines. Give it time the fourth line will work itself out.

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Old
10-07-2005, 02:21 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beauty Personified
Well, Barry Trotz didn't think the team would need as much of a physical presence against a team like San Jose. That's why he scratched Darcy Hordichuk and Jeremy Stevenson.
I'm looking forward to Fedoruk and Brennan vs Hordichuk and Stevenson on Saturday. Maybe Moen vs Tootoo on the undercard.

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Old
10-07-2005, 08:42 AM
  #22
triggrman
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I don't think you'll see much fighting this season, most goons can't skate.

If I was Trotz I'd keep the fastest line-up possible, make them pay for dressing players that can't play.

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10-07-2005, 09:08 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman
I don't think you'll see much fighting this season, most goons can't skate.

If I was Trotz I'd keep the fastest line-up possible, make them pay for dressing players that can't play.

I would too, I especially believe this after watching 4-5 games on Center Ice. It looks to me that we could flat out burn any team in the league.

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Old
10-09-2005, 07:14 AM
  #24
triggrman
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I have to admit last nights 4th line did look better, Stevenson actually threw so good hits.

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Old
10-09-2005, 10:09 AM
  #25
C-J Carlson
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Last night's fourth line played very well, IMO. I believe that should be the standard for the fourth line - Darcy Hordichuk / Scott Nichol / Jeremy Stevenson. They lasted a long time on the ice at one point when the Preds iced the puck twice. Shows they have some stamina. It's what you'd expect from a fourth line.

Anyhoo...

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