HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Notices

Projected lines for Thursday evening

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-07-2003, 07:47 PM
  #1
Mizral
Registered User
 
Mizral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Earth, MW
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,102
vCash: 500
Projected lines for Thursday evening

Reading the paper this morning, apperantly Crawford gave hints at what the lines will look like at the last exhibition game & practices.

The Naslund/Morrison/Bertuzzi line is obviously the staple.

Sedin/Sedin/King is the second line.

However, what is most interesting to me is Crawford is using a line that I suggested a while ago..

Arvedson/Linden/Cooke

Linden doesn't like playing centre as much, but this line is too good to pass up if you ask me. These are three players whom are all not just good, but great defensivly. And all three are quite competant defensivly.

I, like a few others, feel that the Canucks need a shutdown line. We really do - not necessarily a line that will match up against the top line and play 20 minutes a night. But a line that can be put out there against the opponents top lines in a close game late in periods, or one that can be used in the playoffs often.

That line is good enough to play 16 - 17 minutes a game. Yes, the Sedin's suffer a touch, still - wow.

The fourth line I can't exactly guess with as much accuracy (the papers wrote down a good idea, but I forget to be exact).

I'm guessing it's going to look something like Ruutu/Chubarov/May or Lindgren/Chubarov/May.

Mizral is offline  
Old
10-07-2003, 07:51 PM
  #2
MVP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 2,627
vCash: 500
Agreed, i mean look at the impact of the Devil line of Pandolfo - Madden - Marshall had in the playoff last year as example.

MVP is offline  
Old
10-07-2003, 07:57 PM
  #3
Waveburner
RIP Luc
 
Waveburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In Morrison's house.
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,488
vCash: 500
Why I don't like the Arvedsson-Linden-Cooke line:

It forces two players to play outside of their best position. Linden, IMO, is half the player at C that he is on the wing. It is more apparent to me than Baron's lack of footspeed was. There is that much of a difference. While I have not seen Cooke play the right side, I have heard other posters say he has been quoted saying he really doesn't like coming down his off wing. Having a shut-down line IS a great idea. Isn't that what a Cooke-Chubarov-Linden line is though? A shutdown line? All three are great defensively, and it allows both Cooke and Linden to play their natural sides.

Another point that has not been brought up much-if you scratch Lindgren, we are left with *one* proven clutch face-off guy. Is Linden going to take all our key face-offs? What if he has an off night in the circle?

I would still much rather keep Linden on the wing unless 100% necesary. I actually think he becomes a below-average third liner when switched to center, and curse every time Crow sticks him there

Waveburner is offline  
Old
10-07-2003, 07:59 PM
  #4
maruk14
Registered User
 
maruk14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,912
vCash: 500
Cooke's played RW before. Remember the Kid Line with Schaefer and Druken?

I agree about Linden, but it's not like he is a poor center. It takes away from his offensive game, but defensively he is still strong. He is a good 3rd line center in my mind.

maruk14 is offline  
Old
10-07-2003, 08:04 PM
  #5
Waveburner
RIP Luc
 
Waveburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In Morrison's house.
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by maruk14
Cooke's played RW before. Remember the Kid Line with Schaefer and Druken?

I agree about Linden, but it's not like he is a poor center. It takes away from his offensive game, but defensively he is still strong.
I thought Schaeffer played RW on that line? It still seems pretty obvious Cooke is a better LW than a RW.

My question is more:
Is Cooke/Chubarov/Linden a shut down line? Is it absolutely necesary to put Arvedsson on that line? Is he that much better than Chubs defensively, that it warrants playing TWO key forwards at unnatural positions?

Waveburner is offline  
Old
10-07-2003, 08:08 PM
  #6
MVP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 2,627
vCash: 500
it is mystery to me how Linden is half of the player in the center position and the lack of faceoff ability.


Remember the Canucks originally re-acquired Linden for his faceoff ability, and i have absolutely no problem with Linden taking majority of the faceoff. In fact if you look at the NHL, most good faceoff men are experienced players, and Linden is excatly that.

Linden is a good scorer as a winger, and he still capable of 20 goals 20 assists like last season as a winger but i see no problem with him being a centerman, he did a tremendous job setting up Gelinas in the past, i see no reason why he cannot do that again with Averdsson and Cooke.


The different between Cooke Chubby Linden and Cooke Linden Avredsson is Avredsson's scoring ability in comparison to Chubby in this season. We can all predict that Chubby has the potential to be a 40 points player, but at this time it is just a prediciton. While Cooke, Linden and Avredsson have proven to be 40 points scorers.

MVP is offline  
Old
10-07-2003, 08:09 PM
  #7
Edler Statesman*
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: New West, BC
Posts: 23,807
vCash: 500
Lindgren should be at center, he's better at faceoffs than Chubarov

Edler Statesman* is offline  
Old
10-07-2003, 08:16 PM
  #8
Waveburner
RIP Luc
 
Waveburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In Morrison's house.
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MVP
it is mystery to me how Linden is half of the player in the center position and the lack of faceoff ability.


Remember the Canucks originally re-acquired Linden for his faceoff ability, and i have absolutely no problem with Linden taking majority of the faceoff. In fact if you look at the NHL, most good faceoff men are experienced players, and Linden is excatly that.

Linden is a good scorer as a winger, and he still capable of 20 goals 20 assists like last season as a winger but i see no problem with him being a centerman, he did a tremendous job setting up Gelinas in the past, i see no reason why he cannot do that again with Averdsson and Cooke.
Being a center and face-off ability are seperate issues. I like having Linden around to take draws, I never questioned his face-off ability. Its when he is actually playing the center position. Maybe just my viewpoint, but I honestly can't stand watching Linden play center. He does nothing on offense, and isn't involved in the physical game at all. He just tries to play solid D.

Could you address my question...is Arvedsson so much better defensively than Chubarov that it warrants playing two key players off their natural position?

Waveburner is offline  
Old
10-07-2003, 08:18 PM
  #9
Peter Griffin
Registered User
 
Peter Griffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,391
vCash: 500
I agree with Waveburner, I would rather see Linden and Cooke play the position they are most comfortable with. I also feel that Linden is better defensively when on the wing and that Chubarov is a much better defensive center than Linden, resulting in a better shut-down line IMO. A 4th line of Arvedson-Lindgren-May/Ruutu would also be awesome and one of the best in the league.

Peter Griffin is offline  
Old
10-07-2003, 08:19 PM
  #10
MVP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 2,627
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waveburner
Being a center and face-off ability are seperate issues. I like having Linden around to take draws, I never questioned his face-off ability. Its when he is actually playing the center position. Maybe just my viewpoint, but I honestly can't stand watching Linden play center. He does nothing on offense, and isn't involved in the physical game at all. He just tries to play solid D.

Could you address my question...is Arvedsson so much better defensively than Chubarov that it warrants playing two key players off their natural position?

i don't think it is about defensive ability, however, Arvedsson was a Selke candidate. In my view it is Arvedsson's offensive ability that seperate between him and Chubby right now. Arvedsson Linden Cooke line can be a great defensive line with good scoring ability. On the other hand, Cooke Chubby Linden are great defensive line with average scoring ability. Again it can change if Chubby can show much improve offensive ability this season, but until than Arvedsson is a safer bet.

MVP is offline  
Old
10-07-2003, 08:22 PM
  #11
Waveburner
RIP Luc
 
Waveburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In Morrison's house.
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MVP
The different between Cooke Chubby Linden and Cooke Linden Avredsson is Avredsson's scoring ability in comparison to Chubby in this season. We can all predict that Chubby has the potential to be a 40 points player, but at this time it is just a prediciton. While Cooke, Linden and Avredsson have proven to be 40 points scorers.
They have proven this, at their natural positions...

I don't think we need each 3rd line player putting up 40 points. Plus, if you drop Arvedsson down a line, he brings some added skill to the 4th line-which would otherwise be comprised of Ruutu-Lindgren/Chubarov-May...do you really want to see that line on the ice?

I guess it just comes down to preference-I am not an advocate at all at forcing players to play outside of their natural position. Unless absolutely necesary, of course

Waveburner is offline  
Old
10-07-2003, 08:32 PM
  #12
MVP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 2,627
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waveburner
They have proven this, at their natural positions...

I don't think we need each 3rd line player putting up 40 points. Plus, if you drop Arvedsson down a line, he brings some added skill to the 4th line-which would otherwise be comprised of Ruutu-Lindgren/Chubarov-May...do you really want to see that line on the ice?

I guess it just comes down to preference-I am not an advocate at all at forcing players to play outside of their natural position. Unless absolutely necesary, of course

Linden is basically a proven scorer at any position, Arvedsson will be playing his natural position. As far as Cooke goes, i don't know to be honest he has not try it so who knows what he can do. Again nothing is guarantee success in the NHL, especailly with a coach like Crow, i am sure he will try a lot of different combination which is a good thing.

Crow has openly say he likes the versatility of this team, so i think he will be testing different combination and playing player out of position especailly at the beginning of the season.

Ya i agree it is a matter of preference, i personally don't think playing player out of position is much of a problem, in fact it might be a good way to keep the player on the edge. i mean the Dallas Stars are trying Modano on the wing this year, and Detriot tried to play Sergei Fedorov as a defenceman, playing out of position is very natural in the NHL. :p

MVP is offline  
Old
10-07-2003, 08:39 PM
  #13
Waveburner
RIP Luc
 
Waveburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In Morrison's house.
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,488
vCash: 500
I guess you just don't see the same discrepancy in play from Linden that I see. I honestly think Linden would struggle to put together a 30 point season playing entirely at C. It's just the way he plays. His scoring outburts last season all came on the wing. Right when Chubarov went down to injury is when he stopped scoring, because he was forced to play C. Agree to disagree

I also loathe the look of our 4th line if it is made up of Ruutu/Lindgren/Chubarov/May...

Waveburner is offline  
Old
10-07-2003, 08:40 PM
  #14
Burke's Evil Spirit
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Montreal
Posts: 15,126
vCash: 500
Isn't Cooke a natural center? Why not stick him in the middle, and let Linden take draws, and thus allow him to play his natural position.

Cooke did play RW on the Kid Line.

I have to say, I don't like the thought of Arvedson-Linden-Cooke as our third line either...simply because our best defensive forward (Chubarov) isn't on it! Stick him in the middle, and for the love of Sweet Zombie Jesus reunite Ruutu-Lindgren-Linden!

Burke's Evil Spirit is offline  
Old
10-07-2003, 08:45 PM
  #15
Waveburner
RIP Luc
 
Waveburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In Morrison's house.
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,488
vCash: 500
Actually I really like the chemistry that Ruutu-Linden seem to have together. But that also means playing Cooke out of position on the right side. It is a tough call, and it is better to have options like this for the coach.

The one thing I do hope is that he experiments with breaking up the WCE for stretches this season-just so Naslund/Bertuzzi are comfortable playing apart come playoff time-which could be necesary.

Waveburner is offline  
Old
10-07-2003, 08:45 PM
  #16
MVP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 2,627
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waveburner
I guess you just don't see the same discrepancy in play from Linden that I see. I honestly think Linden would struggle to put together a 30 point season playing entirely at C. It's just the way he plays. His scoring outburts last season all came on the wing. Right when Chubarov went down to injury is when he stopped scoring, because he was forced to play C. Agree to disagree

I also loathe the look of our 4th line if it is made up of Ruutu/Lindgren/Chubarov/May...

And the whole idea of this Avredsson Linden Cooke shutdown line comes down to if Jason King can prove to be a regular teammate with the Sedins which is actually very unpredicable when we consider the experiement of Steve Kariya and Fedor.

i like Lindgren as a forechecker, so i think he could be a good winger, but again i am making too much of an assumption in regard to that. I think the best thing is to wait and see within this several weeks as Crow is testing out the lineup.

MVP is offline  
Old
10-07-2003, 10:10 PM
  #17
Tom.H
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Kelowna
Posts: 1,266
vCash: 500
When I look at the points that MVP and Waveburner made, I see valid points made by both of them.
However, the biggest problem I see is finding a spot for Avredsson.
I have a hard time seeing him a fourth line player, especially given his salary. But I don't really like Linden at center.
I believe in order to get the most from each individual; they should be playing their natural position.
So the only way I see Avredsson on the third line, is to put Cooke at center and Linden at RW.
I have been told that Cooke is a natural center, so if that is true, I think that is probably the best solution. Even with Linden at RW, he would be taking the majority of the face-offs anyway.

Boy I wish Avredsson was a natural RW, I think if he was he would be great with the Sedins.
I can't shake the feeling that before the trade deadline, Burke is going to be forced to get a good RW for the Sedins.

Tom.H is offline  
Old
10-07-2003, 10:16 PM
  #18
Waveburner
RIP Luc
 
Waveburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In Morrison's house.
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,488
vCash: 500
Whomever said Matt Cooke is a natural center is wrong. Yes, he did play center in Junior, but has not played it at all since turning pro. He apparently spent one season on the RW of the Schaeffer-Druken line, but has not played pro C before. I personally think Cooke would be hurt in his effectiveness very significantly. He is a bang and crash forward, and centers are often asked to stay back on the forecheck to pick up defensive responsibilities. On the wing he pretty much has free reign to tear up opposing d-men on the forecheck, and this is what makes him so effective.

I for one don't mind seeing Arvedsson on the 4th line. I doubt King will last long at the NHL level yet, and when he gets sent down it will open a spot in the top 6 forwards. At which point, Crow could really experiment, breaking up the WCE and playing Bertuzzi with the Sedins, while Arvedsson or Cooke get a chance on the 1rst line.

Waveburner is offline  
Old
10-07-2003, 10:27 PM
  #19
Tom.H
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Kelowna
Posts: 1,266
vCash: 500
Waveburner

Like I said about Cooke "if it is true". I don't like players playing outside their natural positions. Therefore, obviously if it going to effect Cooke's play, forget it.
However, I still can't see Arvedsson on the fourth line and I don't think he would be happy their either.

Which brings me back to my original point, and that being, where is the best place to put Arvedsson?

By the way, I edited and added to my last post, so you probably didn't see all of it.

Tom.H is offline  
Old
10-07-2003, 11:54 PM
  #20
cyrisweb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Calgary ab
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,149
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom.H
However, I still can't see Arvedsson on the fourth line and I don't think he would be happy their either.
wow.. sorry but who the hell cares if Arvedson is happy on the 4th line or not.. He plays where he is needed regardless of how much he makes or what he wants. If he can not be a team player then you can be assured he will be on the trade block real quick.

As for why Arvedson on the 4th line is NOT a good idea it is because(IMO) the top line will be ice time hogs as normal which is fine. Then the Sedins and the 3rd line will split the remaining time and the least amount of time will go to the 4th line. They go out there to bang things up get the crowd energized and then get the hell of the ice. Arvedson can be put to a much better use.

I do agree that Linden is not nearly as effective at Center instead of the wing and ideally we would want him where he is most comfortable. But you don't always get what you want. We have yet too see what Cooke can really do on the right wing. If this can be an effective line then I guess Linden's points will just have too suffer.

cyrisweb is offline  
Old
10-08-2003, 12:23 AM
  #21
me2
Seahawks 43
 
me2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Broncos 8
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 16,677
vCash: 50
King is causing problems to some extent. I really like the idea of Linden and Arvedsson on the same line with a quickish D-minded centre between them. Working from that, Cooke seems to get left out, so lets fiddle a bit

Cooke-Morrison-Naslund
Sedin-Sedin-Bertuzzi
Arvedsson-Chubs-Linden
Linds between Roots/May/Keane


King gets shafted and the WCE gets broken up a little but might work by balancing the lines. Can Cooke handle the #1 line duties? Maybe move Arvedsson to #1 line and Cooke to the #3 lines.

Otherwise we are back to

Bertuzzi-Morrison-Naslund
Sedin-Sedin-Linden
Arvedsson-Chubs-?Roots/May/Keane
Cooke-Lindgren-?Roots/May/Keane

If Cooke made the adjustment to the RH wing, Arvedsson-Chubs-Cooke could be a very fine checking line, with the wheels to be effective against the likes of Gaborik-Walz or Selanne-Sakic-Kariya.

me2 is offline  
Old
10-08-2003, 05:55 AM
  #22
NFITO
hockeyinsanity*****
 
NFITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,805
vCash: 500
100% agree with Waveburner's comments...

watching Linden all season, it was clear to me that he isn't the same player at center as he is on the wing... he's just better on the boards... seems that he thinks too much out there as a center taking care of his defensive responsibilities and loses a step in his game.

IMO it would be a bad move to have Linden play center next season... he should still take the majority of faceoffs, but slide into the wing, like he did last season, when the lineup was healthy.

Cooke and Arvedson are also both natural left wingers... Cooke, as Wave mentioned, hasn't played center since his junior days... he had a few shifts there last year, and didn't have much success at that spot... no different than Bertuzzi, who was a center in junior, started off in the NHL as a left winger (with the Isles, and until late 2001 was a left winger as a Canuck), but has since moved to the right wing, and has exploded into a dominant offensive player at this spot... just like Bertuzzi, moving Cooke from the position he's best (and dominant in his role) at, doesn't make sense to me.

My projections on the bottom six, taking the big assumption that King can play the 2nd line and won't be this year's version of Fedorov, would be as follows:

The 3rd line I would have as:

Cooke - Chubarov - Linden

I don't think you lose much offensively here not having Arvedson play on this line.. Cooke and Linden can provide enough offense for a 3rd line, and Chubarov is better in a shutdown role as a center than Linden is...

The 4th line I would have as:

Arvedson - Lindgren - Ruutu/May

Arvedson and Lindgren obviously have some history together, so I don't see how Arvedson wouldn't want to play here with him... also a 4th line role doesn't mean he's not going to get icetime... Lindgren was #7 among forwards last year in average game icetime, ahead of all wingers except for Linden (who spent time at center as well) and the top line... I think that we will see Arvedson still get about 13-15 mins a game as a 4th liner in 5-on-5 situations... same as what guys like Cooke or Klatt got last season.

I would alternate between May and Ruutu giving the hot hand the chance to play the next game (also putting in May when there is an obvious need for an enforcer)... this is the one area where King is kinda messing things up, as both these guys right now deserve to have a fulltime role on the 4th line.

Arvedson and Lindgren would also both get PK time, probably on the top unit, or following Linden/Chubarov and Cooke... Morrison's PK time could drop, increasing his 5 on 5 time and PP time, if available.

NFITO is offline  
Old
10-08-2003, 05:56 AM
  #23
Ironchef Chris Wok*
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Red Sox Nation
Country: Taiwan
Posts: 12,538
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Ironchef Chris Wok*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
Isn't Cooke a natural center? Why not stick him in the middle, and let Linden take draws, and thus allow him to play his natural position.

Cooke did play RW on the Kid Line.

I have to say, I don't like the thought of Arvedson-Linden-Cooke as our third line either...simply because our best defensive forward (Chubarov) isn't on it! Stick him in the middle, and for the love of Sweet Zombie Jesus reunite Ruutu-Lindgren-Linden!
Great... Brad May is now our 13th forward...

May w/ the Sedins? That could be interesting... Sedin - Sedin - May... that's like our enforcer line!

Ironchef Chris Wok* is offline  
Old
10-08-2003, 07:31 AM
  #24
maruk14
Registered User
 
maruk14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,912
vCash: 500
Apparantly, these were the lines skating at practice.

Big Line
Arvedson Sedin Sedin
Cooke Lindgren Linden
May Chubarov Ruutu

http://www.canada.com/vancouver/spor...1-0C7416D2E00A

maruk14 is offline  
Old
10-08-2003, 09:05 AM
  #25
Rageinthecage
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 318
vCash: 500
Why not split up the talent among lines 3 and 4, as opposed to having our three worst forwards on the last unit? Crawford can give them equal icetime. My idea consists of one shutdown line and one speed/forechecking line, both capable of pitching in with the odd goal (as opposed to using Lindgren, May, and Ruutu/Keane together).

Arvedson Lindgren Linden
Cooke Chubarov May/Ruutu/Keane

Cooke and Chubarov have great chemistry together. Linden and Lindgren also play well together, not to mention Arvedson on paper looks to be a perfect fit for those two. If Lindgren is the scratch on a particular night, then Linden can move to center on occasion. Perhaps the reason Linden is at center Thursday night (if sources are in fact true) is because Lindgren might be sitting out that game.

Rageinthecage is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:43 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.