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The Future 15

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Old
10-07-2003, 10:01 PM
  #1
MVP
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The Future 15

ESPN prediction of the Future 15 in the NHL.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?id=1632492

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10-07-2003, 10:09 PM
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I think Thornton should be higher... no?

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Old
10-07-2003, 10:22 PM
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It cant be a ranking... its just too out of whack.

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Old
10-07-2003, 10:22 PM
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9.Parise: ok he's a steal in last year draft ... but it's too early to think that he will become one of the biggest star... better than ... thornton,lecavalier and iginla... i doubt... still possible... but he's a gamble(if u think he'll be a superstar) ... IMO he'll be a star player.. but not superstar material...(koivu type of player)
upside: Kariya
downside: todd white

10.Dipietro: He looks like theodore.. he plays like theodore.. he has the same frame as theodore.. has the same character... but will he be as good ? i dunno IMO it's 50/50

11.Tootoo: I dont see that one happen... still like him... i just dont see it.. anyway good luck to him..

14.Nabokov: "The Kazak goalie is confident in his skills and comfortable with his handle on the English language. By virtue of his position -- and the absence of any other true superstar on the team -- his success is closely tied to that of the team's in the standings and in the community."
oh wow ! they got me with this description ! he's the next superstar .. need to get back on track first..

still like these kids .. but IMO there is more better players around the league... :p

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Old
10-07-2003, 10:33 PM
  #5
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MVP
ESPN prediction of the Future 15 in the NHL.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?id=1632492
This writer, Scott Burnside, deserves to be hung by the testicles for submitting that crap. And whoever gave the ok to publish this deserves to be fired as well.

What the hell is Jordin Tootoo doing in that top 15? Haven't they heard of Brad Richards or just about a HUNDRED more talented young players out there? Don't even get me started on the order they put them in (let's hope it was totally random, although there is no need to put numbers if that is the case).

Why can't there be any *decent* (not even asking for good) coverage of hockey in the U.S.?

I do like how he interviews McGuire and then lists Zach Parise in the top 15. Coincidence? I think not :p

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10-07-2003, 10:55 PM
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The writer is giving examples of players who he thinks are not only good players, but good personalities/spokespersons as well, good with the media, etc.

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10-07-2003, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryoptix
9.Parise: ok he's a steal in last year draft ... but it's too early to think that he will become one of the biggest star... better than ... thornton,lecavalier and iginla... i doubt... still possible... but he's a gamble(if u think he'll be a superstar) ... IMO he'll be a star player.. but not superstar material...(koivu type of player)
upside: Kariya
downside: todd white
Not a bad downside.

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Old
10-08-2003, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getnziggywidit
The writer is giving examples of players who he thinks are not only good players, but good personalities/spokespersons as well, good with the media, etc.

IS THAT WAT THE HELL THEY WERE DOING?!?!?!??!!

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10-08-2003, 01:27 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingPurpleDinosaur
IS THAT WAT THE HELL THEY WERE DOING?!?!?!??!!
Yeah, the guy is looking for "ambassadors for the game". An exercise that is futile and subjective, and a list that is IMO pure crap.

I suppose Heatley would have been a great one, but I'm not quite sure what he's still doing on that list now. And I personnally can't understand a word Bouwmeester says, this guy needs to articulate before being media-candy.

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Old
10-08-2003, 03:05 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
This writer, Scott Burnside, deserves to be hung by the testicles for submitting that crap. And whoever gave the ok to publish this deserves to be fired as well.

What the hell is Jordin Tootoo doing in that top 15? Haven't they heard of Brad Richards or just about a HUNDRED more talented young players out there? Don't even get me started on the order they put them in (let's hope it was totally random, although there is no need to put numbers if that is the case).
Zoom - the sound of the point of the article totally going over your head.

Tootoo is going to be insanely popular. He already is, and he hasn't played a game yet.

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Old
10-08-2003, 05:04 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
This writer, Scott Burnside, deserves to be hung by the testicles for submitting that crap. And whoever gave the ok to publish this deserves to be fired as well.

What the hell is Jordin Tootoo doing in that top 15? Haven't they heard of Brad Richards or just about a HUNDRED more talented young players out there? Don't even get me started on the order they put them in (let's hope it was totally random, although there is no need to put numbers if that is the case).

Why can't there be any *decent* (not even asking for good) coverage of hockey in the U.S.?

I do like how he interviews McGuire and then lists Zach Parise in the top 15. Coincidence? I think not :p


You have every right to rip the article, but I don't see the point in harping on U.S. hockey coverage. From what I've seen, the Canadian media isn't much better and is just as prone to odd biases and wacky prognostications.

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Old
10-08-2003, 05:05 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PornoHolocaust
Yeah, the guy is looking for "ambassadors for the game". An exercise that is futile and subjective, and a list that is IMO pure crap.

I suppose Heatley would have been a great one, but I'm not quite sure what he's still doing on that list now. And I personnally can't understand a word Bouwmeester says, this guy needs to articulate before being media-candy.


I don't think it's futile, especially when you're talking about the long term future of the sport in the United States. Too many of the NHL's stars are faceless, and that's a problem.

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Old
10-08-2003, 05:29 AM
  #13
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richards? samsonov? gagne? havlat? chistov? frolov? ruutu? lehtonen? pitkanen? fleury? staal? horton? my goodness; and that's just off the top of my head.

 
Old
10-08-2003, 05:31 AM
  #14
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I'm just gonna forget i saw this.

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Old
10-08-2003, 05:48 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
This writer, Scott Burnside, deserves to be hung by the testicles for submitting that crap. And whoever gave the ok to publish this deserves to be fired as well.

What the hell is Jordin Tootoo doing in that top 15? Haven't they heard of Brad Richards or just about a HUNDRED more talented young players out there? Don't even get me started on the order they put them in (let's hope it was totally random, although there is no need to put numbers if that is the case).

Why can't there be any *decent* (not even asking for good) coverage of hockey in the U.S.?

I do like how he interviews McGuire and then lists Zach Parise in the top 15. Coincidence? I think not :p
I think Tootoo could become a star. He won't be getting star points but his game+personality is definately special. Remember Rodman in the NBA? He wasn't the greatest basketball player but he played good defense and had a very different personality.

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10-08-2003, 05:59 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian
He wasn't the greatest basketball player but he played good defense and had a very different personality.
eh? good on defense? he was the best rebounder of his time.

 
Old
10-08-2003, 06:17 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan
Zoom - the sound of the point of the article totally going over your head.

Tootoo is going to be insanely popular. He already is, and he hasn't played a game yet.
I can accept that, but I still can't understand why Nabokov is there.. he has neither top-end appeal or top-end talent.

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Old
10-08-2003, 06:27 AM
  #18
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richards? samsonov? gagne? havlat? chistov? frolov? ruutu? lehtonen? pitkanen? fleury? staal? horton?
I may be wrong, but of these guys, only three speak English as their first language.

That's the key here.

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10-08-2003, 06:46 AM
  #19
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You've got to be kidding me...

In what universe would Ales Hemsky, Zach Parise and Jordin Tootoo be ranked above Thornton, Lecavalier, Iginla, and Kovalchuk in terms of potential NHL and media impact? And what has Spezza done (aside from looking pretty and beeing a good Canadian boy) to deserve his ranking?

IMO, Thornton & Iginla have the best chances of becoming household names in the US. Maybe Tootoo - he is a really good kid with a nice story. Maybe Kovalchuk, if the media can stop bashing him. Everyone else? I dunno.

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10-08-2003, 06:56 AM
  #20
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Quote from the Article:

"5./6. Dany Heatley/Ilya Kovalchuk (left), Atlanta Thrashers
The twin towers of hockey in Atlanta have almost always been referred to in the same breath. With the serious accident that injured Heatley and killed Dan Snyder during training camp, Kovalchuk will need to accelerate his development as a leader. Heatley had made tremendous strides before the accident. Now Kovalchuk won't have his partner as a crutch to lean on."

Heatley made tremendous strides, and Kovalchuk didn't? Kovalchuk was using Heatley as a crutch??? Yeah, they were friends and roommates, but they didn't even play on the same line! Why is it ok to always stick it to Kovalchuk with backhanded complements, non-selections to the All-Star game, mean comments in the papers - you know, the dumb and irresponsible stuff - while praising everybody else? I know he is not Canadian or American, but this is getting really old.

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Old
10-08-2003, 07:17 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan
Zoom - the sound of the point of the article totally going over your head.
The point seems to be a random mix of 15 players. Why is Hemsky considered above Havlat, for instance? What kind of order is this? What is Heatley doing on a popular list right now?

Is this list about popularity? Is it about talent? If the point of the article is to present to us the popular STARS of tomorrow, you're better off forgetting about Tootoo, IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan
Tootoo is going to be insanely popular. He already is, and he hasn't played a game yet.
There are dozens of players with more talent in their pinky fingers and just as great to talk to/about.

Just because you're one of those fickle fan who has a hard on on the latest WJC doesn't mean I have to follow. Sorry, I have seen DOZENS, I mean dozens of GREAT performances at the WJC that have amounted to absolutely nothing in the NHL.

I see Tootoo as a checker. He's not going to amount to half as much as Peca, Lehtinen and many other players. Are you under the impression that Lehtinen, Friesen or Peca are top 15 marketable in the league?

Didn't think so.

There are many, many feel-good stories in the NHL. Many nice players as well. Many journalists say how much they appreciate covering this sport because unlike others, the league is full of class acts, players who are available for interviews, etc...

Tootoo's story is just one of them. And just like all the clowns who thought Raffi Torres would end up being a terror in this league, I think a couple of Tootoo fans are going to come down to earth once he goes against top talent.

So, he's a small energetic player who is well-liked.

And an average talent.

Big deal.

I think Tootoo's impact league-wide is going to be about the same as a Brandon Reid. Reid is absolutely phenomenal to be around. He's small, shifty and gives it all each shift he takes on the ice. Guys like that, there are many in the NHL.

Still, when you look at avatars, you'll see that a good portion of HF dedicates them to players who are successful and have the bigger impact.

A player like Brett Hull is fun in interviews. Part of this is because he is a VERY smart guy and sometimes very blunt. He's also colorful at times. But you know what? Nobody would CARE about Hull if he didn't had the talent (and an amazing career so far) to back it up.

You just can't do it any other way. You need the two, and talent/performance is a big part of it. More than personality, IMO. In a couple of years, it is very likely that nobody will care about Tootoo's ugly mug. Because chances are a guy like Tuomo Ruutu will be able to do everything Tootoo can and much, much more.

Markets will also play a part. Nashville is not a market that gets its due share of the spotlight, much like Carolina and Washington.

This was a half-assed list, no matter what kind of twist you want to give it. The premise was vague at best and the list is crappy and in laughable order anyway. The goals of the list should be made obvious, and then the players should be selected, preferably not randomly but with some kind of logic.

So, at this point, I still say Scott Burnside should be hung by the testicles for writing that garbage.

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10-08-2003, 07:23 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolut
You've got to be kidding me...

In what universe would Ales Hemsky, Zach Parise and Jordin Tootoo.
The guy talked to McGuire. That's all there is to it.

McGuire has a hard-on for everything canadian, particularly U20 Team Canada. He was screaming on top of his lungs the minute Tootoo was taking a shift at the WJC. Thus the Tootoo selection.

McGuire also whined at length about Parise, whom he saw at the WJC (and I must agree, was absolutely amazing), not being drafted earlier. Thus the selection of Parise.

McGuire apparently likes Hemsky, according to this article. Thus the selection of Hemsky.

I see a pattern. Burnside and McGuire must be friends or something :p

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Old
10-08-2003, 07:25 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
This guy is a writer......he is right.......Parise will be a star.....
I agree. I doubt he will be a top 15 marketable asset, however. He could be but I doubt it.

I could see Parise becoming a favorite of mine if he makes it. He was impressing me each and every shift, without exception.

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10-08-2003, 08:18 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger
I don't think it's futile, especially when you're talking about the long term future of the sport in the United States. Too many of the NHL's stars are faceless, and that's a problem.
Oh I agree with you, there is a big problem of marketing this league, but that really isn't the point of the article, on the contrary... "Generation to generation, there are always new stars that come to the game to excite fans" ; "There's never going to be a shortage of good players in this league" - that's far from analyzing a problem with the media-visibility and the appeal of the NHL players, it's only an excuse to put up a (very subjective and unjustified) list of players. That is, to me, futile.

As for the Tootoo argument, I disagree in part with Vlad. It took only a handful of games in the playoffs (I don't remember what year) for Steve Webb to get the fans going, ok he never got back that type of play afterwards (or maybe a game here and there, but I never saw anymore of it myself) but that is the type of game Tootoo could bring with more consistency and if he does, he'll be very popular with fans (and he is media-friendly). But on the other hand, Vlad's position reflects mine : would it be a good thing to hockey? Is flying 6 inches over the ice while charging your opponent what hockey's really about?... And then again, would Tootoo be able to maintain this energy level (I'm thinking of the WJC) against bigger guys than him?

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10-08-2003, 08:57 AM
  #25
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i think that it's being decided, before an NHL game has even been played..that tootoo is ONLY a checker. yes...he's a checker...but there's more dynamite to his game to that. he's something the predators have lacked since they came into the league...an identity. he's the type of player that, just by being on the ice, makes his teammates better. since he's been on the team...guys that have never laid a check in their life are hitting everything, in some kind of infectious hitting frenzy. MARTIN ERAT is hitting people. in addition...the thing that people are forgetting is that tootoo can score, as well. yes, he's small...but so is comrie, st louis, briere, etc. i think that he could be, ideally, a stronger version of these players. i know that using preseason as an example is a weak argument, but he scored smart goals, there. again...junior is another weak argument, but...35 goals last year is nothing to turn your nose up at. prior to the draft in 2001, he won the hardest shot competition with a 96.3 mph shot...and has since gotten MUCH stronger.
I think that people are seeing Tootoo as a novelty type of player--great story, lots of heart, but probably going to get handled at the NHL level. Up until a couple of weaks ago...I agreed....but the kid has since changed my mind, and I think that he's going to be the best thing that has ever happened to Nashville hockey. The interest he has generated from people who have long turned their back on hockey is astounding. I know that this whole rant might be homeristic, but I feel like...having seen him more than his detractors...i can give a better insight. He deserves to be on this list for his explosive style of play...even if he never puts up thornton numbers. you can't assume that the best players are only the ones that score goals.

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